Legit or no? - Fighting glitched bosses.

Because you can avoid glitches in MapleStory? Almost everything has some form of glitch/bug floating around. Though i'd love everything to run properly I'm not going to stop killing bodyguard because nexon can't be fucked fixing it.

Could think same with HT? The glitch is only the first 30 can actually enter the darn thing. Logging on straight after a SC to get on the "list" is that abusing a glitch? is that illegit? It's meerly working around glitches that remain unfixed.. ._.

I'd only call something like this illegitimate if you was deliberately causing the boss to glitch, but if something is glitched already. there's nothing you can really do about it.

"glitched" exp:hp ratios? (train in NLC/world tour? I hope not)

What if that is there way of balancing the training area, they have no valuable drops but give you more exp
Edit
ITT: people try to define legit by community maple standards today and not the actual original definition. If you go to a boss and it is just a sand bag if you were truely legit you would leave and not go back till it was fixed and not abuse it for easy exp/money

So here's a question.

Is krexel glitched to be a sandbag so we can slap the illegit title on everybody? Is it because he's worthless in exp and drops that no one cares?

I await the interesting responses.

Legitimate is defined by social standards. It has no bearing on the definition. Each player has their own version of what is legitimate, and each player will frown or look up upon each player for what they believe is so.

So here's a question.

Is krexel glitched to be a sandbag so we can slap the illegit title on everybody? Is it because he's worthless in exp and drops that no one cares?

I await the interesting responses.

Nexon is doing nothing about it. I hold the same response for krexel as i do Gunbosses.

Reminds me when a select few of a group of players complained when CZak was fixed. Where's the fun in holding down the attack button for half an hour until the HP bar reaches zero? At least status effects and taking damage are at least vaguely entertaining.

too bad the only even remotely "fun" status effect is zombify. pot lock when you are a 2hko no matter what and only the new half of classes have hp recovery skills? watch as your character walks into a corner and dies? those arent anywhere close to even vaguely entertaining, theyre just dumb. zombify is the only one that isnt just blind luck to survive.

too bad the only even remotely "fun" status effect is zombify. pot lock when you are a 2hko no matter what and only the new half of classes have hp recovery skills? watch as your character walks into a corner and dies? those arent anywhere close to even vaguely entertaining, theyre just dumb. zombify is the only one that isnt just blind luck to survive.

Get a bishop. They have status resistance, they can dispell pot lock, they can guard you when czak seduces. They take off heal.

Nexon is doing nothing about it. I hold the same response for krexel as i do Gunbosses.

So if they do nothing about it...it's fine?

Interesting.

So if they do nothing about it...it's fine?

Interesting.

I hope you actually read what i said before. Thats not a quarter of my take on this.
Edit: my response to your question was probably uninformative of my view. Would you like me to quote older responses? Like I said, everything I have said about gunbosses(even previously) are my same answer to krexel.

Elaborate. Do you mean the boss is really hard and it s impossible to kill normally, then you abuse a "glitch"? Because GunBoss doesn't fit this example. It is unabled to be killed without glitches, because there is no unglitched counterpart. This is the same instance for Bigfoot. Ever since CWK it was never fixed. It is unavoidable. Am i illegitimate for killing it with those beaten up frames? These are glitched that are inherited by the boss, and cannot be avoided. If Bodyguards cannot attack me and i can do nothing about it, i cannot see how i am illegit.

Yes. It's considered a grey area because there's too many examples to actually cover it in one statement.

I hope you actually read what i said before. Thats not a quarter of my take on this.
Edit: my response to your question was probably uninformative of my view. Would you like me to quote older responses? Like I said, everything I have said about gunbosses(even previously) are my same answer to krexel.

It wouldn't be fair to be called abusive if i have to kill it that way. I have no other option. I have to take it for what it is.

i cannot wait for nexon to simply fix it. It's been glitched for months and who knows how much longer it will be like this. They haven't acknowledged it either

Taken a bit out of context but that's not the point. What you said still applies to this part of the discussion.

What's interesting about it is that krexel has been the way he is since he was released. Who are we to say if he's glitched or not? Nexon hasn't said anything, whether because the players don't care about the boss or because Nexon has more important things to do. Is he glitched? He attacks...but he's stupid. Is it intended? I dunno. Gotta wait for good ol Nexon to tell me if i wanna be legit and not be mocked by everyone in the game for not being a legit. ;-;

If attacking a boss that doesn't do anything makes you illegit, then nexon should stop making bosses that don't attack, intended or not.

Get a bishop. They have status resistance, they can dispell pot lock, they can guard you when czak seduces. They take off heal.

sometimes its just too much to ask for a good bishop

and then calling off a run because no bishop is more demoralizing than leaving it to chance

Taken a bit out of context but that's not the point. What you said still applies to this part of the discussion.

What's interesting about it is that krexel has been the way he is since he was released. Who are we to say if he's glitched or not? Nexon hasn't said anything, whether because the players don't care about the boss or because Nexon has more important things to do. Is he glitched? He attacks...but he's stupid. Is it intended? I dunno. Gotta wait for good ol Nexon to tell me if i wanna be legit and not be mocked by everyone in the game for not being a legit. ;-;

If attacking a boss that doesn't do anything makes you illegit, then nexon should stop making bosses that don't attack, intended or not.

Krexel wasn't always glitched. It glitched at the same time the gunboss and crimsonwood did. Being a weak boss isn't a glitch, anyway. It was only glitched when it was just out in the same form latanica channel glitches worked.
Edit: krexels skills that do nothing were like that when maplesea got krexel, too.

sometimes its just too much to ask for a good bishop

and then calling off a run because no bishop is more demoralizing than leaving it to chance

All they need is to keep magic guard and maxed out dragon up. It's really simple. Czakum's arms? Make the bishop sit on top of the boss. It only dispells through attacks, so this provides a different hit to throw off the dispell. Also, when zakum's body dispels, it is a long cast move. You can easily recover from it.

This sounds like an insult.

That's a marvelous conclusion...
Since I agree with the consensus, it most definitely wasn't an insult.

However, arguing that glitches are "unavoidable" is asinine.
They're perfectly avoidable. All you have to do is not participate in the affected content.
While I certainly don't expect people to do this (though people seem to be pulling the opposite opinion out of their asses), there's no pressing need for any of the benefits the bosses might give.
Not Familiars. Not Violet Snow Shoes.

A few years ago, at least in Khaini, hackers basically had a lock on Horntail for what seemed like a year.
While it certainly would have been nice to have the HT Pendants and MW20s from him, they were, likewise, far from necessary.
People certainly fared without them.

It's NOT "legit" because it's not how it's intended to be played. Anyone claiming that sitting there hitting a stationary, unable to attack boss is legit is out of their minds, regardless of whether it's accepted or not. It doesn't matter if you're just doing it for fun. And it certainly isn't suddenly better because you're not gaining enormous amounts of experience from it. Those statements are ridiculous.

That said, it doesn't make you some sort of scumbag to do it. It doesn't put you on the same level as people who intentionally hack, dupe or glitch parts of the game. This is a situation that is out of your control and it is unreasonable to just expect everyone to avoid the areas because Nexon won't get off their dumb lazy asses to fix it.

So in reality, it's a grey area at best. It's certainly not a legit kill or something brag-worthy but it's not something that people should look down on you for doing either.

Hey, look!
I completely agree with Sarah!

"glitched" exp:hp ratios? (train in NLC/world tour? I hope not)

You seem to not understand what a glitch is.

Could think same with HT? The glitch is only the first 30 can actually enter the darn thing. Logging on straight after a SC to get on the "list" is that abusing a glitch? is that illegit? It's meerly working around glitches that remain unfixed.. ._.

That's a very poor comparison because it's the polar opposite.

With HT, the glitch isn't enabling you to do something you would normally not be able to do.
On the contrary, it's a complete hindrance.

So here's a question.

Is krexel glitched to be a sandbag so we can slap the illegit title on everybody? Is it because he's worthless in exp and drops that no one cares?

I await the interesting responses.

I'd be more keen on responding if your question were clearer.

Currently, as a statement, it would read:
Krexel is glitched for the purpose of calling all players illegit.

That makes no sense in any perspective.

I'd be more keen on responding if your question were clearer.

Currently, as a statement, it would read:
Krexel is glitched for the purpose of calling all players illegit.

That makes no sense in any perspective.

And the OP in statement form would be:
Bosses that do nothing are glitched and therefore anyone who fights them are illegit.

Get it? If people don't consider krexel to be glitched because him doing nothing is "intended", and no one would care either way because the rewards are paltry (just like gunboss), and nexon refuses to say anything about it (just like gunboss), then it's a gray area that the player cannot bear the blame for, because bosses that do nothing exist regardless of glitches.

You seem to not understand what a glitch is.

I intentionally stretched the definition of a glitch because I'm challenging the concept a lot of people seem to have of what a glitch is and why it's bad.

I called exp:hp ratios in the world tour areas glitches because they detract from the obvious design intent of the developers: to balance and curve exp across all levels training areas. In reality they merely forgot to update them, but in a world where people go around saying how dare you act against Nexon's intent, I feel it's important to point out what a stupid brightline it is they're drawing between acceptable and not. Nexon's intent means absolutely, positively nothing - either in the practice of playing this game, or in any higher sense of how things "should be."

Currently, as a statement, it would read:
Krexel is glitched for the purpose of calling all players illegit.

That makes no sense in any perspective.

In sarcasm, he has a point.

A glitch is something that the game designer did incorrectly. A glitch is something that potentially affects all players. A glitch is not a way for the high minded to find out who is and is not worthy of their definition of legitimacy. It's a stupid mistake developers are supposed to fix. Developers, not Nexon apparently.

My point is, do not complain at people who will beat a glitched boss to death repeatedly and sell the spoils. I greatly prefer that conduct to sitting in FM ripping off people or buying NX to sell for mesos and supporting Nexon's largesse. It's Nexon's fault the boss is glitched, and it stands in the way of enjoying the content in a balanced and yes perhaps intended way.

And the OP in statement form would be:
Bosses that do nothing are glitched and therefore anyone who fights them are illegit.

Get it? If people don't consider krexel to be glitched because him doing nothing is "intended", and no one would care either way because the rewards are paltry (just like gunboss), and nexon refuses to say anything about it (just like gunboss), then it's a gray area that the player cannot bear the blame for, because bosses that do nothing exist regardless of glitches.[/QUOTE]
You misinterpreted something.
Shocking.
What you may have wanted to say and what you actually said were two entirely different things.

Back to the actual discussion:
Players are still guilty of their actions. That's undebateable but, fortunately, not the question of this thread.
The question is whether or not that action is, in fact, morally grey (or either extreme).

Also, I can't think of a single boss which, out of intention, did or does nothing.
The reason for their inaction would always be the result of a glitch, so that last statement is just plain dumb.

But I will write you down in the "moral relativist" column.

I intentionally stretched the definition of a glitch because I'm challenging the concept a lot of people seem to have of what a glitch is and why it's bad.

Which just doubles my confusion as you were responding to Sarah and Sarah didn't even present a concept of what a glitch is.
Nexon's intent, yes, but not what a glitch is.

I called exp:hp ratios in the world tour areas glitches because they detract from the obvious design intent of the developers: to balance and curve exp across all levels training areas. In reality they merely forgot to update them, but in a world where people go around saying how dare you act against Nexon's intent, I feel it's important to point out what a stupid brightline it is they're drawing between acceptable and not. Nexon's intent means absolutely, positively nothing - either in the practice of playing this game, or in any higher sense of how things "should be."

You actually present a very good point about Nexon's intent.

The thing that example that comes to mind when examining designer intent in a game is Smash Bros. Melee.
(While I never mastered them,) these games 'featured' several advanced tactics that are an absolute must for anyone on the competitive level.
Thing is, the most prominent advanced tactics are the result of exploiting certain nuances of the physics engine.

However, neither the Smash Bros scenario or the NLC/World Tour monsters were the result of a glitch since, in both scenarios, the code was working precisely as it was meant to work.

In sarcasm, he has a point.

A glitch is something that the game designer did incorrectly. A glitch is something that potentially affects all players. A glitch is not a way for the high minded to find out who is and is not worthy of their definition of legitimacy. It's a stupid mistake developers are supposed to fix. Developers, not Nexon apparently.

My point is, do not complain at people who will beat a glitched boss to death repeatedly and sell the spoils. I greatly prefer that conduct to sitting in FM ripping off people or buying NX to sell for mesos and supporting Nexon's largesse. It's Nexon's fault the boss is glitched, and it stands in the way of enjoying the content in a balanced and yes perhaps intended way.

Not sure how this segment arose from Takebacker's post, but aaaaaaaaaanyway...

I don't know where people are getting this idea that I'm complaining about people beating these bosses or even condemning it.
I don't give a damn about defining people as "legit" or "illegit"; I only use those terms because they're part of the jargon used by players of Maplestory.

I've already made it clear that I fought these bosses myself since they've become glitched, and, if it helps to clarify my position, I fought Zakum countless times and Horntail once while auto-aggro was broken.

The purpose of this thread was to see how people rationalize whether they see certain actions in Maplestory as either right* or wrong**.


* - may read as "legit"
** - may read as "illegit"

All they need is to keep magic guard and maxed out dragon up. It's really simple. Czakum's arms? Make the bishop sit on top of the boss. It only dispells through attacks, so this provides a different hit to throw off the dispell. Also, when zakum's body dispels, it is a long cast move. You can easily recover from it.

missed the point. my alliance lacks bishops because they arent as fun as everything else. there are only a couple regulars. if they dont happen to be around or cant make it, we dont have a bishop.

and sometimes, you do everything you can and still die anyways. even with a bishop. or 3. runs still go sour. 2 dc, the 3rd gets a miss sitting on arm/body and a hit from a dispel attack, doesnt happen to have a wheel. thats why i say status effects arent fun. losing control of your character is inherently unfun. the ones that arent unfun either dont matter or are only not unfun because you can cure them yourself.

why talk about glitched boss and not glitched decent/useful skills?


in the end your just playing a game, i never seen a crowd of people calling me legit anywhere. besides, if you dont like the challenge of actually fighting a boss whats the point of playing?

Edit: krexels skills that do nothing were like that when maplesea got krexel, too.

lolwut?
Krexels skill did "do something" ever since it's introduced in SEA unless you know which spot to stand/attack safely.
Krexel only do nothing since bosses aggro bug appear in chaos and it's fixed last year.

Being legit isn't about just not hacking or using things affected by hacks. It's about playing the game as it's intended to be played, and technically that means not fighting screwed up bosses.

I didn't say they should be classified as "illegit." I didn't even use that word in my post. They shouldn't be classified at all. It's a personal choice because it's grey and in reality harms nothing. I personally wouldn't do it but, and I say this as one of the most judgmental people here, I wouldn't look down on anyone who decided to.

However, if there is a boss that is affected by this that gives out really good exp or items and people are farming them because of the glitch then they are absolutely illegit, be it their fault that it's broken or not. Taking advantage of a situation for profit* is basically the definition of illegitimate.

*not necessarily monetary. Gaining loads of exp is also profiting.

I'll have to add a little question.

If Nexon never fixes this, would that mean it's the new way it's meant to be played? Different versions have some tweaks in content too.

Not trying to justify myself, I actually don't do those bosses. Just food for thought.