KMST 1.2.413 - More Skill Changes (2)

EDIT: Also, wasn't Eleanor supposed to be YET another Black Magician's general? Just how many are there? Weren't they supposed to be seven?

Eleanor is just a Black Witch. As of the release of Phantom's story quests, there are currently eight Commanders of the Black Magician:

1. Van Leon
2. Arkarium
3. Orca (Orchid)
4. Demon Slayer
5. Guwar
6. Suu (Lotus)
7. Hilla
8. Magnus

And I disagree with your statement about Lotus not being there. I mean, why only her, DS, Arkarium and Von Leon? If Hilla were alive, you'd think she'd be loyal enough to warrant participating. Same with Eleanor - more so in her case because she has a LOT more free time than Hilla would, esp. if Hilla's running a larger scale force that needs round-the-clock maintenance.

The reason why the other Commanders are not present in the meeting at the Temple of Time is because they were away on missions.

Freed seems to have been the most friendly of the 5 heroes. Maybe thats where his and Afriends name come from.

Freed seems to have been the most friendly of the 5 heroes. Maybe thats where his and Afriends name come from.

Yup.

Aran is ... (don't play that much).
Mercedes can be quite a brat.
Phantom is a thief. (no pun intended)
What is the pirate hero gonna do? Kill people on their ship or something?

What is the pirate hero gonna do? Kill people on their ship or something?

I'm still counting on a Jester class. All stupid and random moves.

Yup.

Aran is ... (don't play that much).
Mercedes can be quite a brat.
Phantom is a thief. (no pun intended)
What is the pirate hero gonna do? Kill people on their ship or something?

Aran appears to be the quiet one to me with a broken memory.

Phantom to me appears to be some lovestruck guy trying to get back at the BM.

Yup.

Aran is ... (don't play that much).
Mercedes can be quite a brat.
Phantom is a thief. (no pun intended)
What is the pirate hero gonna do? Kill people on their ship or something?

Aran is the passive one even though he swing a polearm and have a kind of battle rage ability.

The phantom looks to me just like Neal from White collar, he is a thief and pimp who feld in love and turns good.

Eleanor is just a Black Witch. As of the release of Phantom's story quests, there are currently eight Commanders of the Black Magician:

1. Van Leon
2. Arkarium
3. Orca (Orchid)
4. Demon Slayer
5. Guwar
6. Suu (Lotus)
7. Hilla
8. Magnus



The reason why the other Commanders are not present in the meeting at the Temple of Time is because they were away on missions.

Remove Demon Slayer because he's a bloody traitor and we're back at 7 Generals. Magnus or Hilla is most likely the de facto replacement for the sorry loser.

Yup.

Aran is ... (don't play that much).
Mercedes can be quite a brat.
Phantom is a thief. (no pun intended)
What is the pirate hero gonna do? Kill people on their ship or something?

Cannibal?

Remove Demon Slayer because he's a bloody traitor and we're back at 7 Generals. Magnus or Hilla is most likely the de facto replacement for the sorry loser.

All the generals were present during the time of Demon Slayer.

All the generals were present during the time of Demon Slayer.

Source saying Magnus was part of the original group?

Source saying Magnus was part of the original group?

8 chairs!

8 chairs!

I could've sworn you guys counted 7 chairs when Demon Slayer first debuted on kMS. There was also that theory that there was 8, but the Black Mage sits in that last one.

If so, then.....

BRING ME THE HEAD OF THE FOOL WHO INCORRECTLY MISCOUNTED THE CHAIRS!

EDIT - I'm still looking for official sources stating that Magnus is a member of the original group.

[video=youtube;DOopc9oTvFc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOopc9oTvFc[/video]

Counted chairs. There are 7 of them.

Bold part is where I want to focus fire on first. Orchid and Lotus are.... um.... Team Rocket meets Wonder Twins meets Twinrova Sisters. Proof? Mercedes mentions that Orchid can transform, but in the dialogue prior, mentions that she was glad Lotus wasn't around. So my guess is that Orchid relies on Lotus to activate said transformation (further proving the whole "twins possess limited telepathy" theory), or that their fighting power is greater when they're together than when they are apart. Not to mention, Orchid's dialogue gives me a hint that if her sister is anything like her, then they both fall under Sadistic - thus the nickname "Sadistic Sisters".

I see. Thanks for the explanation. I really wonder if we'll ever see Orca's strong form (her transformation). Guess not since Lotus is dead, isn't she?

Next is the line that Shinsoo says in the first few moments of the trailer: "I was unable to save her". This implies that the Sadistic Twins did SOMETHING to Shinsoo that broke Aria's immortality, thus allowing her death. This also proves that Shinsoo has a power BEYOND what we know, and that Cygnus's immortality depends on her. How much so, we don't entirely know without knowing more about Aria's reign as Empress. That, sadly, requires a deeper dive into Phantom's past, which Nexon probably cannot give us in current form (this is stemmed from Aria's second line: "No matter how many times you come here, I will not hand over the treasure of Ereve" - implying that this isn't the first time they've met).

I interpreted Shinsoo's "I was unable to save her" as in "my magic abilities in battle couldn't refrain them from killing her". Now, I don't know if the storyline says anything about her being able to fight (such as having magical abilities which allow her to do so). But we do know for a fact that Cygnus has a mini-Shinsoo summon in the fake-future. And it fights. So.. I'd say that she would be able to fight. Sure, the Empress' immortality might indeed depend on her, but, as someone said before, it doesn't necessarily mean that she can't be killed.

Afterall, the Empress herself isn't even supposed to engage in battle. Ereve has an invisible protection shield (which fails, but still) which prevents Black Wings members or anyone related to the Black Magician from entering, and also the Empress is just supposed to stay in Ereve and lead her knights. This makes me think that the fight in which she died was indeed not started from her nor expected, and Shinsoo just couldn't stop them with her magic. Indeed she probably has abilities which go beyond what we know, but maybe they are just not fighting ones.

This entire sentence is a joke in the fact that so far, the Black Mage has been doing a crappy job of destroying the Maple World since he's come back. In anime, the mega villain who shows up last is usually known to be an incompetent basterd.

Now, why have we only seen the Black Mage in retrospect (AKA trailers with that bloody Eregos-ripoff of a robe) whenever he's confronted, but we never actually get in-game sprites? Simple: He's an utter failure, and his generals are stalling for time, hoping nobody notices how weak he really is to be calling orders from the rear.

I mean, think about it: We don't even have all the heroes right now, and the Black Mage is chilling deep in the Verne continent. If it took so many peeps and five heroes who lost their memories/strength/lives/fortunes/whatever to kill him the first time, why not take advantage of the situation now, when nobody expects it, and pull a cheap stunt out of his rear and destroy the Maple World? He's already come close to making half the Maple World believe that Cyggie is a bloody traitor, so why not keep that momentum?

There's but one answer, and as soon as you accept that answer, you accept that the Generals are stall-devices for the real truth: The Black Mage. Is. A. Bloody. Failure. An incompetent loser who can't blow up the world on his own and prefers the textbook cliche method of destroying the world.

I can't agree with you here. This isn't an anime (even if they make anime clips to make it look "cooler") or a novel. It doesn't quite work like that. Nexon needs time to prepare everything, and they haven't even released the last hero yet. Sure, storyline-wise it doesn't make much sense for him to not already attack Maple World and destroy it, but.. they'll probably make up for it by saying that he was preparing a huge, incredibly complex plan which will be later revealed. Afterall, in the fight with Mercedes, Orca almost tells her a secret about the Black Magician. "The Black Magician is going to...". Since he has already revived, the word "come back" would totally be out of place. The only option left here is that he's preparing something big which we don't know about yet, nor are supposed to, since it's a secret afterall.

To me, the Black Mage indeed is as strong as they picture him to be. Even Mercedes clearly said that she FEARS him, and she doesn't look like a dummy at all. She's smart, and she knows what she's going to go through. The Black Magician has learned from his mistakes, and this time he won't let them win this easily. Though, Maple World hasn't stood still. The main instructors created an union of the strongest forces and they are organising them pretty well, too. It'll be a "fair" battle at that. Well, maybe not so much, as we never know what to expect from the evil array.

Let's also remember that all the heroes were at their maximum power when they fought him (level 200). Demon Slayer didn't look weak at all, tho he was defeated.

The "Over 9000" was a pun saying the Black Mage most likely lost more than his physical form in that fight. I mean, we don't exactly know the WHOLE story of how that fight went down (all we know is the outcome: Black Mage dies, 3 heroes get scatterbrained, one dies, and the last one is swallowed by the threads of time until otherwise remembered). So the Black Mage probably lost his dignity, his pride, and all that hard work he spent in raising a rather pointless army when he could have just blown the world up himself (hey, if his revival caused the Big Bang, imagine what else he's capable of!).

The army just serves him as a support to achieve his purpose more easily and to gain time for the first move. Again, he's not weak.

This is speculation, so bear with me here. Most likely, the Skyia that Hilla possessed is a fake, and Phantom knows this. Why? Shinsoo more than likely gave him the real one. And Phantom's lived his pre-hero life as the Mask DeMasque of Maple World - a genuine criminal, and probably a minor villain as far as Maple's history is concerned; that is, until he falls in love with Aria and she gets killed.

Think. If Cygnus didn't realize it was a fake, who in that room would know otherwise? I'll give you a hint: you're viewing that meeting in his eyes.

Thank you for the clarification. I just knew that when Shinsoo said "I have to give you something" she probably meant the Skyia.

As for the Generals thing, most likely Eleanor is a General. However, I can sorta explain how Orchid and Lotus fit into a single General spot.

First, reference numero uno: Mercedes storyline, finale. Mercedes mentions that Lotus not being there makes the fight winnable.

Wait, where did Mercedes say that, again? I can't remember correctly.

Second, reference numero dos: Demon Slayer storyline, intro. Of those present at the conference, only Demon Slayer, Arkarium, Von Leon, and Orchid are present. Even IF Lotus wasn't revealed (which if this is even significant, Nexon needs to redo that scene to include the twin's fusion form when they reveal it), it means that this scene took place midway through the First War. Thus, only Orchid is shown here, because Phantom has incapacitated Lotus at this point. Thus, Orchid takes the place of their fusion and thus, the Wing Master is only half of what it once was.

Thanks for the explanation.

I still don't get Hilla's role in the storyline. I think I understood that she's another general of the Black Wings. But then, who are those soldiers following her? Are they members of the army of the Black Wings? But then why don't they have their symbol rather than that strange, small stone in their hats?

That sounds just strange. Also, why wasn't Hilla in the hall with the other 6 generals at the times of the First War? Was it because she was on a mission, or she just wasn't born back then?

Last question: how can the Black Wings survive hundreds of years? I understand Mercedes and the other heroes trapped in ice, but.. what about them? They most likely weren't affected by the ice curse, else they couldn't have resurrected the Black Magician in the first place.

I see. Thanks for the explanation. I really wonder if we'll ever see Orca's strong form (her transformation). Guess not since Lotus is dead, isn't she?

Lotus ain't dead. She's incapacitated. Phantom didn't outright kill her, but did enough damage to put her spirit into limbo. I mean, if Lotus were dead, don't you think they'd dispose of her body? (Unless, and this is only a theory - unless Orchid either defied orders to bring back her other half or the Black Mage realizes that Lotus is a valuable asset to the Black Wings).


I interpreted Shinsoo's "I was unable to save her" as in "my magic abilities in battle couldn't refrain them from killing her". Now, I don't know if the storyline says anything about her being able to fight (such as having magical abilities which allow her to do so). But we do know for a fact that Cygnus has a mini-Shinsoo summon in the fake-future. And it fights. So.. I'd say that she would be able to fight. Sure, the Empress' immortality might indeed depend on her, but, as someone said before, it doesn't necessarily mean that she can't be killed.

Afterall, the Empress herself isn't even supposed to engage in battle. Ereve has an invisible protection shield (which fails, but still) which prevents Black Wings members or anyone related to the Black Magician from entering, and also the Empress is just supposed to stay in Ereve and lead her knights. This makes me think that the fight in which she died was indeed not started from her nor expected, and Shinsoo just couldn't stop them with her magic. Indeed she probably has abilities which go beyond what we know, but maybe they are just not fighting ones.


It's been said many times that Cygnus is immortal. There are two theories I have on that, and both involve the throne.

The first theory is that Ereve has an aura that slows aging to an excruciatingly slow pace. Thus, it would take Cygnus over hundreds of years to actually gain a teenage/adult form. Proof? The amount of years that passes between Cygnus being brainwashed and us going to Dream Future Ereve. Hardly coincidence if you think about it.

The second theory is that the royal line of Ereve has a rite they perform to grant total immortality to the current Empress - one that heavily involves Shinsoo. Think Freud and Afrien, but on a much bigger scale - we're talking a pact that not anyone can make. Freud and Evan are complete nobodies in their world (not so much Freud; Evan, though, is another story); however, Cygnus is the latest member of the Ereve royal family. I doubt anyone else can bind with Shinsoo in the manner that she does.

Also, Shinsoo appears to have suffered more damage than Aria in that fight. Proof? JUST LOOK AT HOW ARIA HARDLY HAS A SCRATCH ON HER, AND YET SHINSOO HAS A BROKEN CROWN!



I can't agree with you here. This isn't an anime (even if they make anime clips to make it look "cooler") or a novel. It doesn't quite work like that. Nexon needs time to prepare everything, and they haven't even released the last hero yet. Sure, storyline-wise it doesn't make much sense for him to not already attack Maple World and destroy it, but.. they'll probably make up for it by saying that he was preparing a huge, incredibly complex plan which will be later revealed. Afterall, in the fight with Mercedes, Orca almost tells her a secret about the Black Magician. "The Black Magician is going to...". Since he has already revived, the word "come back" would totally be out of place. The only option left here is that he's preparing something big which we don't know about yet, nor are supposed to, since it's a secret afterall.

To me, the Black Mage indeed is as strong as they picture him to be. Even Mercedes clearly said that she FEARS him, and she doesn't look like a dummy at all. She's smart, and she knows what she's going to go through. The Black Magician has learned from his mistakes, and this time he won't let them win this easily. Though, Maple World hasn't stood still. The main instructors created an union of the strongest forces and they are organising them pretty well, too. It'll be a "fair" battle at that. Well, maybe not so much, as we never know what to expect from the evil array.

Let's also remember that all the heroes were at their maximum power when they fought him (level 200). Demon Slayer didn't look weak at all, tho he was defeated.

You got me here. Still think they're re-using an overused cliche here.




The army just serves him as a support to achieve his purpose more easily and to gain time for the first move. Again, he's not weak.

No comment on this because my brain can't figure out an answer.



Thank you for the clarification. I just knew that when Shinsoo said "I have to give you something" she probably meant the Skyia.

Duly noted. However, while Phantom KNEW the presence of a fake Skyia, Hilla knew the presence of a rat in the room; if she works with the Black Wings on such a huge basis, she obviously knew special ways to contact Lotus. Thus explaining (speculation though) how, why, and for what purpose she possessed Phantom.


Wait, where did Mercedes say that, again? I can't remember correctly.
She says it during the quest finish dialogue after she makes Orchid flee (it's a well known fact that Orchid lived to kill Mercedes another day) - she specifically states that while Orchid was weak enough to defeat, she also mentions that she was "glad that her twin wasn't here" - this is probably HEAVILY implying that Lotus fighting alongside her sister would've meant a loss for Mercedes.


Thanks for the explanation.

I still don't get Hilla's role in the storyline. I think I understood that she's another general of the Black Wings. But then, who are those soldiers following her? Are they members of the army of the Black Wings? But then why don't they have their symbol rather than that strange, small stone in their hats?

That sounds just strange. Also, why wasn't Hilla in the hall with the other 6 generals at the times of the First War? Was it because she was on a mission, or she just wasn't born back then?

Speculation theory ahead. You have been warned.

According to Baklava, Hilla was off on a mission at the time. However, I don't buy that. Hilla's powers are too significant to the Black Wings for her to just be on random missions, not to mention she has a whole army and most likely subordinates (like Orchid does) to oversee such things in her absence.

This means that, if Hilla was one of the original members, her presence in that meeting would have been a given - ESPECIALLY if Arkarium was there. Her not being there implies that she's a new recruit.

Last question: how can the Black Wings survive hundreds of years? I understand Mercedes and the other heroes trapped in ice, but.. what about them? They most likely weren't affected by the ice curse, else they couldn't have resurrected the Black Magician in the first place.

The answer you seek lies in the Black Mage's immortality research in Magatia. After becoming what he is now, the most likely outcome is he began making variations to the method, allowing those he favored to have immortality. They probably had to give something up, though: It's heavily implied that when the Black Mage gained immortality, he gave up his humanity in the process.

Responses in bold.

Counted chairs. There are 7 of them.

And thank you for the clarification. This only further backs up my theory that Magnus/Hilla was recruited to replace Demon Slayer after his treachery. Why though, remains a mystery.

Lotus ain't dead. She's incapacitated. Phantom didn't outright kill her, but did enough damage to put her spirit into limbo. I mean, if Lotus were dead, don't you think they'd dispose of her body? (Unless, and this is only a theory - unless Orchid either defied orders to bring back her other half or the Black Mage realizes that Lotus is a valuable asset to the Black Wings).

I don't get it. So Lotus is alive? I thought the whole thing about her spirit meant she was dead.

The answer you seek lies in the Black Mage's immortality research in Magatia. After becoming what he is now, the most likely outcome is he began making variations to the method, allowing those he favored to have immortality. They probably had to give something up, though: It's heavily implied that when the Black Mage gained immortality, he gave up his humanity in the process.

Yeah, that's most likely it. Thank you. If I think about it, even Von Leon had to give his soul to be on the Black Mage's side. In exchange, he got power and immortality.

Did monster park really need such a huge nerf?

It needs a freaking solo mode. I hate partying and I can't do ANY of the 120+ challenges solo. That's a problem--especially when Nexon insists on including it in events like the trophy thing (that would be Nexon America but it all goes back to the source)

It needs a freaking solo mode. I hate partying and I can't do ANY of the 120+ challenges solo. That's a problem--especially when Nexon insists on including it in events like the trophy thing (that would be Nexon America but it all goes back to the source)

What about making a single party with only you?

What about making a single party with only you?

You get raped unless OP and 20+ levels above the monsters (talking about 120+)?

What about making a single party with only you?

What? The problem isn't getting in, it's that the enemies have too much HP to get through solo. I can't even do the 120 one on my 167 I/L