JapanMS - Open-To-All Test Server; May 16th ~ 30th

Jesus christ. What's so hard to get?

I'm sorry, are you blaming others for your poor wording?
If two people have no idea what the pineapple you're saying, then maybe it's you.

Duh. The more SP you have ALLOCATED IN YOUR SKILLS WHEN YOU REBIRTH. I never said anything about SP being reset. (though wouldn't that be interesting when you use an SP reset scroll and you lose SP)

120 paladin into 200 hero. How about suggesting something better?

So you were just being redundant for the sake of redundant.

I don't believe it was ever decided that rebirth-ing immediately at 120 was a good idea, as that would be a major waste of time. Therefore, I assumed you wouldn't being pointless reaffirming that rebirth-ing a 150 character would be better than rebirth-ing a 120 character.

QUICK WRITE A LONG ASS RESPONSE TO PROVE HIM WRONG.

Shocking news: The world does not revolve around you.
My post was not to "PROVE TAKERBACKER WRONG."
There's a reason I used the term "some people" instead of posting "OMG TAKEBACKER, YOU SO STUPID!".

If we want to make the best use of this system, we have to consider the classes better, and that wasn't happening. My post was to show an example of how a good match-up wouldn't require leveling to 200 twice.
You aren't the only one that suggested that only characters of astronomical level could fully take advantage of this system; you're just the one I quoted.

Limiting it to level 200 makes the strong stronger and the weak weaker. Rebirthed characters would ALWAYS in EVERY SITUATION be superior. If it's 120+, then the level of the original character will be more of a limit to your power than anything else so they could still be weaker than some non-rebirthed person. If you are 200, there is no limits except for the fact that 200 is hard as hell to reach to begin with.

Making the strong stronger and the weak weaker doesn't make it overpowered, it just makes it polarizing.
I can also think of a number of situations in which a rebirthed character wouldn't necessarily overpower a non-rebirthed character.

1) Order completely matters. If you start with paladin and put 0 in achilles because the hero will have it anyway, then jump will come around and you'll have adv final attack but no achilles.
2) Maxing those skills in the previous advancement means you have them at level 1. Making you stronger than someone who was lower leveled and you won't have to get those skills when you reach the same level you used to be.

The higher you are before you rebirth means you will ALWAYS (ALWAYS) be better off.

1) >Assuming JMS will get Jump
This isn't to say I don't think they will, because they likely will.
My point is that they don't even have Chaos yet, nor any signs of getting it, so your point is, at the moment, moot.
We don't know what crazy pomegranate JMS will pull before they get Jump, so considering the theoretical ramifications is just damn silly.

2) Define "stronger". Only one of those skills make you do more damage, which is the definition of strength in Maple. If someone wants to go from 164 to 174 just for Maple Warrior 30, let them.

But let's play pretend and say JMS has Jump. So the Hero has to level Advanced Final Attack to 30 and decides he absolutely must suffer from 174 to 184 for Maple Warrior 30. Well, that still doesn't take him to 200, does it?

Hell, let's take him all the way to 200 before he turns into a Pali!
Advanced Combo (30), Advanced Final Attack (30), Combat Mastery (10), Maple Warrior (30), Monster Magnet (30), Power Stance (30), Rush (18), Intrepid Slash (30), Enrage (30), Hero's Will (5).

So now he's a Paladin. He's maxed out everything he should:
Achilles (30), Guardian (30), Advanced Charge (10), Divine Shield (10), Divine Charge (20), Blast (30), Heaven's Hammer (30).
Oh... but that's only 160 points... He's maxed everything he needed by level 173...
Unfortunately, he has to keep going since he's otherwise wasting 27 levels of AP, and 135 AP is pretty damn significant.

But, hey, what's not fun about getting to max Rush?

I don't believe it was ever decided that rebirth-ing immediately at 120 was a good idea, as that would be a major waste of time. Therefore, I assumed you wouldn't being pointless reaffirming that rebirth-ing a 150 character would be better than rebirth-ing a 120 character.

Dumbass. I said 120 because that's the earliest you can rebirth. I didn't say that to suggest doing so wouldn't be a complete waste of f'ucking time.

Shocking news: The world does not revolve around you.
My post was not to "PROVE TAKERBACKER WRONG."
There's a reason I used the term "some people" instead of posting "OMG TAKEBACKER, YOU SO STUPID!".

Shocking news: That response had nothing to do with stroking my cock.

Your response was unnecessarily long. Have fun rebutting an opinion.

If we want to make the best use of this system, we have to consider the classes better, and that wasn't happening. My post was to show an example of how a good match-up wouldn't require leveling to 200 twice.
You aren't the only one that suggested that only characters of astronomical level could fully take advantage of this system; you're just the one I quoted.

If you wanted a good example of not needing to level to 200 twice, NL -> bowmaster. Only need to get to 130 for max shadow shifter. Maybe 140 for venom.

I would hope i'm not the first, since it's pretty easy to conclude.

Making the strong stronger and the weak weaker doesn't make it overpowered, it just makes it polarizing.
I can also think of a number of situations in which a rebirthed character wouldn't necessarily overpower a non-rebirthed character.

If the potential system was OP for making the rich/strong stronger, then why isn't this OP? Huh? I was under the impression the rich/strong are also for the most part high leveled.

Those situations would only include rebirthing into a character that literally cannot take advantage of any of the previous skills and there are no damage modifiers. ie. sair->bucc (not sure if adv homing would work, but that would be interesting in itself)

1) >Assuming JMS will get Jump
This isn't to say I don't think they will, because they likely will. My point is that they don't even have Chaos yet, nor any signs of getting it, so your point is, at the moment, moot. We don't know what crazy pomegranate JMS will pull before they get Jump, so considering the current ramifications is just damn silly.

I said jump because:

1) It is a confirmed future update with ramifications applicable to this scenario.
2) I'm implying that there WILL be changes in the future that will affect this system, and rebirthed level 200s are the only ones who will always receive full benefit of them.

2) Define "stronger". Only one of those skills make you do more damage, which is the definition of strength in Maple. If someone wants to go from 164 to 174 just for Maple Warrior 30, let them.

As if i have any say in the matter of whether a japanese player who lives hundreds of miles away from me will or will not get MW 30 so they can have it at level 1. >_> No need to state the obvious.

Reducing damage (or for example, in your example's case, preventing statuses and whatnot) is the same as making you stronger. Modifying damage isn't the only thing that affects damage.

But let's play pretend and say JMS has Jump. So the Hero has to level Advanced Final Attack to 30 and decides he absolutely must suffer from 174 to 184 for Maple Warrior 30. Well, that still doesn't take him to 200, does it?

Hell, let's take him all the way to 200 before he turns into a Pali!
Advanced Combo (30), Advanced Final Attack (30), Combat Mastery (10), Maple Warrior (30), Monster Magnet (30), Power Stance (30), Rush (18), Intrepid Slash (30), Enrage (30), Hero's Will (5).

So now he's a Paladin. He's maxed out everything he should:
Achilles (30), Guardian (30), Advanced Charge (10), Divine Shield (10), Divine Charge (20), Blast (30), Heaven's Hammer (30). Oh... but that's only 160 points... He's maxed everything he needed by level 173...
Unfortunately, he has to keep going since he's otherwise wasting 27 levels of AP, and 135 AP is pretty damn significant.

But, hey, what's not fun about getting to max Rush?

You've made your point, but you still aren't understanding mine. Having all the previous jobs skills will help for when you're training to 1-120, and not being 200 beforehand makes you weaker in doing so.

Also, echo.

Dumbass. I said 120 because that's the earliest you can rebirth. I didn't say that to suggest doing so wouldn't be a complete waste of f'ucking time.



Shocking news: That response had nothing to do with stroking my cock.

Your response was unnecessarily long. Have fun rebutting an opinion.



If you wanted a good example of not needing to level to 200 twice, NL -> bowmaster. Only need to get to 130 for max shadow shifter. Maybe 140 for venom.

I would hope i'm not the first, since it's pretty easy to conclude.



If the potential system was OP for making the rich/strong stronger, then why isn't this OP? Huh? I was under the impression the rich/strong are also for the most part high leveled.

Those situations would only include rebirthing into a character that literally cannot take advantage of any of the previous skills and there are no damage modifiers. ie. sair->bucc (not sure if adv homing would work, but that would be interesting in itself)



I said jump because:

1) It is a confirmed future update with ramifications applicable to this scenario.
2) I'm implying that there WILL be changes in the future that will affect this system, and rebirthed level 200s are the only ones who will always receive full benefit of them.



As if i have any say in the matter of whether a japanese player who lives hundreds of miles away from me will or will not get MW 30 so they can have it at level 1. >_> No need to state the obvious.

Reducing damage (or for example, in your example's case, preventing statuses and whatnot) is the same as making you stronger. Modifying damage isn't the only thing that affects damage.



You've made your point, but you still aren't understanding mine. Having all the previous jobs skills will help for when you're training to 1-120, and not being 200 beforehand makes you weaker in doing so.

Will third job skills help anything?

All stupid arguments aside :



To maximize speed with this rebirth thing, what skills should I "max" (only 10 points into them)?

So far, I have 1 Dark Force, 6 Beholder, 1 Rush and 1 Monster Magnet.

I'm thinking 10 points in Beholder, 10 points in Dark Force, 10 points in Dark Spirit Up, and 10 in stance? L> Opinions

question: can u put points into pre-rebirth job after u advance?
i'm looking into the possibility of obtaining useful 4th job skills to level 15, rebirth, get all the useful/required skills for the post-rebirth, and any extra points will be poured into pre-rebirth jobs.

question: can u put points into pre-rebirth job after u advance?
i'm looking into the possibility of obtaining useful 4th job skills to level 15, rebirth, get all the useful/required skills for the post-rebirth, and any extra points will be poured into pre-rebirth jobs.

I have no idea.

I have no idea.

do u mind try it with a "useless" skill? i'm looking at getting 4th job skills to lvl 15 so i can use skillbooks on it, rebirth then put points into it

10 points in Dark Spirit Up

Which skill is this?

do u mind try it with a "useless" skill? i'm looking at getting 4th job skills to lvl 15 so i can use skillbooks on it, rebirth then put points into it

Yeah, I'll try it with Achilles or something.

Which skill is this?

It's the one with the weapon attack boost.

Or would Dark Spirit Revenge be better? I can't really tell what it does. -looks for Fiel's Big Bang skill tables-


Oh. Dark Spirit Revenge does this, apparently : Counterattack Chance: 100%, Damage: 700%, Cooldown: 5 sec

Would that be better? O_o

vs : Frequency: every 16 sec, Weapon ATT: +20, Weapon DEF: +150, Magic DEF: +150, Accuracy: +60, Avoidability: +60. Buff Duration: 60 sec

All stupid arguments aside :



To maximize speed with this rebirth thing, what skills should I "max" (only 10 points into them)?

So far, I have 1 Dark Force, 6 Beholder, 1 Rush and 1 Monster Magnet.

I'm thinking 10 points in Beholder, 10 points in Dark Force, 10 points in Dark Spirit Up, and 10 in stance? L> Opinions

So you completed the DrK > MM rebirth?

Are the moves from your previous class restricted in availability by job level?
Ex. Can't access rebirth 3rd job skills until you reach 3rd job.

So you completed the DrK > MM rebirth?

Are the moves from your previous class restricted in availability by job level?
Ex. Can't access rebirth 3rd job skills until you reach 3rd job.

No, I haven't rebirthed yet. I'm trying to figure out a quick build for my Dark Knight so I can speed up the process. I'm currently at level 123. :X

I'm a level 100 priest atm ign is foreigner buddy me if you're also testing things. I'm gonna test priest > pally.
also where is the best place to acquire drk crys?

I'm a level 100 priest atm ign is foreigner buddy me if you're also testing things. I'm gonna test priest > pally.
also where is the best place to acquire drk crys?

Naomi gives out Dark Crystals, so you don't need to hunt any.

I'm part of that hating group for this -.-

I'm thinking 10 points in Beholder, 10 points in Dark Force, 10 points in Dark Spirit Revenge, and 10 in stance? L> Opinions

Sounds alright, though you could skip Stance.

All stupid arguments aside :



To maximize speed with this rebirth thing, what skills should I "max" (only 10 points into them)?

So far, I have 1 Dark Force, 6 Beholder, 1 Rush and 1 Monster Magnet.

I'm thinking 10 points in Beholder, 10 points in Dark Force, 10 points in Dark Spirit Up, and 10 in stance? L> Opinions

What does this image mean, hate to ask? a reincarnated character?

Sounds alright, though you could skip Stance.

Yeah. I just figured Stance may be useful. I guess I could toss that to one of the skills for testing post-rebirth.

What does this image mean, hate to ask? a reincarnated character?

Nope. It's just there for fun.

I think it shows he is a Dark Knight now.

What's better? The skill that makes Beholder attack, or the one that makes Beholder give me attack? o.o

I edited your quote but I guess you didn't see it. Go for Revenge.