What is "good" music?

This I agree with, but at the same time effort doesn't always equate to a better product. Not to completely throw the idea out though, I usually prefer music that doesn't sound like it had a computer randomly generate the song itself while someone autotunes over the computer generated track.

I know @there's works that are considered masterpieces which were crapped out literally in 5 minutes.

I still think instrumentals are great, by the way. Even if I usually don't listen to those as much as the other genres that are on my list, I found this one remix of "Air on the G string" a while back, and I love it:

 G Senjou no Aria #4

[video=youtube;3d9naCtbhaE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d9naCtbhaE[/video]

Too bad I don't know too many people that would like this kinda stuff ; ___;

I know @there's works that are considered masterpieces which were crapped out literally in 5 minutes.

Just a lil curiosity here, The Falling Water House's floorplans shown to the owner were made entirely the same day he visited Wright, after he called Wright saying he'd be there the same afternoon. Wright rushed, grabbed his studio, and made everyone draw like there was no tomorrow.

Nowadays, it's considered by most architects and non architects as the best residence ever build to day.

Perception is not truth. All things follow laws, and those laws are truth. Music must follow those same laws and by following those laws it becomes good. I can't blow into a rusty trumpet and claim the noise it produces is good music because I perceive it to be. I am not qualified to explain exactly what it is that makes good music but I can certainly say that most of what listen to in modern culture doesn't qualify. But even though it may not be technically good it can still be enjoyable.

You know, you're trying to apply an absolute truth/law to a human created concept. There's nothing absolute about art. There are no laws to follow in order for art to be "truly good". There are only opinions. Because the concept of art (ours), having being created and therefore tied to humanity, will always be ever changing as long as the human keeps changing.


A law is the law of gravity. One not tied by the will of humans. Unchangeable and always present no matter if the human (or animal) believes in it or not. That's a law, that's absolute.

I'm pretty open with music. I mostly don't like country and rap (some songs are acceptable though, of course) but most other genres I can get into and enjoy. When I was about 13 I was really into rock and punk stuff but now I really love modern pop music, however I still like most other genres as well.

I think the thing that bothers me the most with people's views on modern pop is that every pop artist has no talent. Kesha is probably the first thing that comes to mind, but if you read up on some of these people, they really do have some degree of musical talent. Kesha worked her ass off to get where she is, and she writes all of her songs and they do have meaning (such as the objectification of women in music, she chose to make her song Blah Blah Blah about switching the roles and objectifying men.)

No, Lady Gaga does not have vocal talent. You only think so because she's not -as- terrible as the others.

I can understand if you don't like her music, that's acceptable. But to say she has no vocal talent seems a little ridiculous. Have you heard her perform live?

 Spoiler

[video=youtube;l3R3KqrJAI4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3R3KqrJAI4[/video]
[video=youtube;_7HvURBhMGE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7HvURBhMGE[/video]

There's tons of other examples of course but those two are probably my favourite live performances from her. She has a powerful voice and is a very skilled pianist. She may be overexposed but I think she deserves to be where she is today. She IS musically talented, denying it is just being oblivious and close minded. Her songs are ALL written or co-written by her and contain a message behind them. I know I could never have that amount of creativity and talent in music, could you do better?

Not trying to be rude or anything I just think some people are misinformed with today's pop artists.

No, no, no. See, you claim to be able to rate something bad, but then, claim to be incapable to rate anything else.

If you can just say what is truth, and what is not, it can be an interesting chat. But you are just saying "I know the truth, you don't". Which is quite arrogant, actually, considering you can't even use it to score something accurately, according to the universal score it should have, according to you.

And about that song, the first minute and half approximately is just setting the atmosphere. But whatever, I guess it's not into your tastes.

What is it that you don't get about the difference between truth and preference, Alloy? You keep mentioning taste when I have clearly stated that taste doesn't make something good. Taste is preference. If I don't like something that doesn't make it bad. Preference and truth are two entirely different species, and in all of my posts I have addressed the topic at hand: "what is 'good' music", in which people continue to claim that preference is what makes music good when that is absolutely not true. Even Imagine's exaggerate picture post makes the right point, which is that there is a line between good and bad and even music has it. You can enjoy that shitty tree picture all you want but that does not in any way change the fact that it is by definition not good. Just like that music video you posted, based on what I heard of it, it has no harmony, something that is integral to GOOD music. It was just a bunch of clashing sounds. Whether or not you enjoy it is completely irrelevant to the point of this topic, which is about good music.

The fact of the matter is FrozNLite was trying to prove a point about tastes but he made the mistake of making a topic called "what is 'good' music" instead of "why do people think their taste is the best" which is clearly what he really meant.

Stuff

I have to admit, those videos are quite awesome. I never said Lady Gaga was bad, though. I'm just always against generalizations. Whatever someone does good, is good. Whatever that same guy does wrong, is wrong. I, for one, love how Papparazi sounds, for example, but I HATE WITH A PASSION Judas.

People hating everything for no reason are as bad as people praising everything for no reason.

What is it that you don't get about the difference between truth and preference, Alloy? You keep mentioning taste when I have clearly stated that taste doesn't make something good. Taste is preference. If I don't like something that doesn't make it bad. Preference and truth are two entirely different species, and in all of my posts I have addressed the topic at hand: "what is 'good' music", in which people continue to claim that preference is what makes music good when that is absolutely not true. Even Imagine's exaggerate picture post makes the right point, which is that there is a line between good and bad and even music has it. You can enjoy that pomegranatety tree picture all you want but that does not in any way change the fact that it is by definition not good. Just like that music video you posted, based on what I heard of it, it has no harmony, something that is integral to GOOD music. It was just a bunch of clashing sounds. it that you don't get about the difference between truth and preference, Alloy? You keep mentioning taste when I have clearly stated that taste doesn't make something good. Taste is preference. If I don't like something that doesn't make it bad. Preference and truth are two entirely different species, and in all of my posts I have addressed the topic at hand: "what is 'good' music", in which people continue to claim that preference is what makes music good when that is absolutely not true. Even Imagine's exaggerate picture post makes the right point, which is that there is a line between good and bad and even music has it. You can enjoy that pomegranatety tree picture all you want but that does not in any way change the fact that it is by definition not good. Just like that music video you posted, based on what I heard of it, it has no harmony, something that is integral to GOOD music. It was just a bunch of clashing sounds. Whether or not you enjoy it is completely irrelevant to the point of this topic, which is about good music.

The fact of the matter is FrozNLite was trying to prove a point about tastes but he made the mistake of making a topic called "what is 'good' music" instead of "why do people think their taste is the best" which is clearly what he really meant.

There are no laws on music like there are on gravity. If every human died, there'd be nobody to say what a song is, or how good it is. However, with all humans dead, an apple will still fall to the ground.

Try to understand that. You are using scientific terms on art. You make no sense.

Generally, I just listen to whatever has a tune I can "walk" to. Mostly Jazz, Techno, even some Classic Hip-hop. I think I have a few J-pop songs floating around in my Ipod as well.

A few of my favorite songs:

 Spoiler

[video=youtube;KAxgpHWtLC0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAxgpHWtLC0[/video]

Called "Luv(sic) part 2". By the late Nujabes. Dunno why the slow-mo Asians though.

[video=youtube;5tjlz3DYmTw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tjlz3DYmTw&feature=related[/video]

Only have his "My favorite things" album right now, trying to rectify that.

[video=youtube;uWxqrLHYlEY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWxqrLHYlEY[/video]

Song is called "Boing vs Boing". Need to scour for a better one, so I won't have a seizure >_<.

Mostly why I can't stand A good chunk of popular music is because it all sounds the same to me. Same beat/message/tone etc. Having no Lyrics is a bonus, in my opinion.

There are no laws on music like there are on gravity. If every human died, there'd be nobody to say what a song is, or how good it is. However, with all humans dead, an apple will still fall to the ground.

Try to understand that. You are using scientific terms on art. You make no sense.

False, there have always been laws on music and always will be. If we all died and life suddenly sprang to life again they would find the same basic musical notes pleasant then as they do now. Sound is a law.

The music that you enjoy listening to.

Or the ones that win a lot of Grammys. I don't know.

False, there have always been laws on music and always will be. If we all died and life suddenly sprang to life again they would find the same basic musical notes pleasant then as they do now. Sound is a law.

Gravity is the acceleration of mass towards other mass, according to precise calculations.

Now try to define music PRECISELY. What's the law behind it. And don't go like "It's there, but you can't see it", that's the same crap all religions use (And please, don't bring that into subject, nobody, we don't need to derail this).

Sound is a law, not Music. Music is the culmination of specific sounds in a specific order in a specific timing.

Also I tend to enjoy indie rock, other than that I do not care for genre as long as the music sounds good to me. Some bands I like so people can see what i'm talking about. Gorillaz, Modest Mouse, MGMT, The Strokes, Ratatat, Portugal the Man, Why?, Built to Spill, Interpol, The Bravery, Arcade Fire, Beck, Architecture In Helsinki, and I could go on and on, but the point is I like what sounds good to me, regardless of genre, it just so happens that some genre contain no music I like (lol country).

False, there have always been laws on music and always will be. If we all died and life suddenly sprang to life again they would find the same basic musical notes pleasant then as they do now. Sound is a law.

Sorry, this is actually where the line draws a bit. Even of earth currently there are certain areas where some cultures find things artistic that most other cultures in the world find barbaric and with no artistic merit whatsoever. Music is in fact a part of culture, and culture is not in the slightest bit an absolute. Don't get blinded by the dominant culture, the world is a pretty big place, Sarah. I actually wouldn't be surprised if there were places were soothing music were seen as offensive by some strange reason we'd most likely disagree with.

I half agree with some of your points, but feel you're thinking a little bit too much in terms of black and white here. The fact that there are people that don't like "good" music at all but find "bad" music to be the best alone disproves your point on humans (or any species for that matter) having a build in biological mechanism that distinguishes the same things as good and the same things as bad listening.

I am kind of curious as to what you find good music though. You've told us an example of what you find bad.

Gravity is the acceleration of mass towards other mass, according to precise calculations.

Now try to define music PRECISELY. What's the law behind it. And don't go like "It's there, but you can't see it", that's the same crap all religions use (And please, don't bring that into subject, nobody, we don't need to derail this).

Pure motherfucking magic.

Sound is a law, not Music. Music is the culmination of specific sounds in a specific order in a specific timing.

And that's the point I was trying to make, yes. Sound will keep existing as long as particles vibrate. And in case they don't, we'd be fucked anyways, since that'd mean the whole universe is frozen at 0 K.

That timing depends on people. Not universal forces.

Gravity is the acceleration of mass towards other mass, according to precise calculations.

Now try to define music PRECISELY. What's the law behind it. And don't go like "It's there, but you can't see it", that's the same crap all religions use (And please, don't bring that into subject, nobody, we don't need to derail this).

Music is sound. Sounds are innately good or bad. We can learn to tolerate certain sounds but that doesn't make them good. Just as we can learn to tolerate pain or even enjoy pain, but that doesn't make getting hurt a good thing.

Scratching nails on a chalk board will hurt your ears.
Bashing on a keyboard will annoy or irritate you.
These things are universal truths.

Music is sound. Sounds are innately good or bad. We can learn to tolerate certain sounds but that doesn't make them good. Just as we can learn to tolerate pain or even enjoy pain, but that doesn't make getting hurt a good thing.

Scratching nails on a chalk board will hurt your ears.
Bashing on a keyboard will annoy or irritate you.
These things are universal truths.

Music is sound, but is sound music?

Depends on who you ask, what combination of sounds create music and what combination of sounds do not, is subjective.

Also Sarah in no way are sounds innately good or bad, now you are judging sound from the way humans perceive sound. How can something be universal if it does not apply to everything?

Music is sound. Sounds are innately good or bad. We can learn to tolerate certain sounds but that doesn't make them good. Just as we can learn to tolerate pain or even enjoy pain, but that doesn't make getting hurt a good thing.

Scratching nails on a chalk board will hurt your ears.
Bashing on a keyboard will annoy or irritate you.
These things are universal truths.

What about a deaf guy. He isn't universal then?

But sure, let's go along this train of thought. Send me a single song that makes my ears ache in pain. Real pain, not just ironic pain. Lady Gaga's doesn't. Does that make it good?

What about a deaf guy. He isn't universal then?

Birds defy gravity. I guess they aren't universal.

Depends on who you ask, what combination of sounds create music and what combination of sounds do not, is subjective.

[video=youtube;o97jr-1_FKI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o97jr-1_FKI[/video]

I guess. If you consider this music, anything can be music.