[1.2.378] Magicians in Jump

Umm what? I don't see I/L gaining much at all.

Buff Mastery is removed, so bye bye to 30 Magic Attack. That will cut damage by 10-15% right there.
Infinity bonus cut in half. Edit- actually more than half, since it benefited from buff mastery duration extension I believe.
CL will be slightly faster, but same total strength as before. Will the speed increase make up for the above losses? Doubtful.
New skills are interesting, but I won't affect bosses.
Am I missing something?
I don't see myself de-mothballing my AM for this.

Fair enough that you feel that way, but they got glacial chains skill and a freezing big bang out of the deal with a faster c/l that already hits more than once per mob.
Yes I would say you missed something.

Excuse me but what makes you think you are the deciding authority on how viable solo training is for a bishop. Don't even TRY to tell me we can't maintain being the lowest DPS class if they changed AR to hit multiple times. JUST LOOK AT ALL THE CRAP THAT I/L AND F/P MAGES GOT FROM THIS UPDATE, there is no reason why we have to be THAT damn weak compared to our counterparts. See the problem with people like you is that all you see is us bishops needing to be on the bottom of the dps charts.... What you people don't seem to understand is that we are so freaking far below the next guy above us in terms of solo training/DPS.

Do bishops belong on the bottom of DPS because of their utility? Sure, why not.

Do bishops belong a mile below the next weakest class in terms of DPS? Hell no.

All things considered, support classes generally do next to no damage by themselves in other MMORPG's. Maple's not much different. However, when you consider the utility that a bishop provides to a class, such as Advanced Bless in this case, while bishops may do next to no DPS, they certainly raise the DPS for other classes as well as the survivability. But if it's solo training DPS you wanted, why the hell did you even make a Bishop to begin with knowing full well it's going to be a party class?

Also, DPS charts are stupid.

All things considered, support classes generally do next to no damage by themselves in other MMORPG's. Maple's not much different. However, when you consider the utility that a bishop provides to a class, such as Advanced Bless in this case, while bishops may do next to no DPS, they certainly raise the DPS for other classes as well as the survivability. But if it's solo training DPS you wanted, why the hell did you even make a Bishop to begin with knowing full well it's going to be a party class?

Also, DPS charts are stupid.

Support class in Maple is not a viable argument.

Looking over this from a Build perspective, I think it makes it harder to decide what skills you want to keep.

For example, in 2nd job, Slow went DOWN 10 levels, but you gained a new 10 level skill. Slow was my dump skill (only 1 point). However, The new 10 pointer is a must have. I have to ignore slow altogether and pull 9 points out of another skill. (I am thinking it will be MPEater because it no longer has the same awesomeness after Chaos.) Now instead of having 1 ignored skill, I have 1 ignored and one incomplete.

When I made the bishop to begin with the game was a different game entirely. I am trying to adjust to the new changes and high hp mobs etc etc.
What you are quoting is a response to someone that thought it was his duty to "correct" me that bishops shouldn't have dps. Which was because
to begin with I was/am extremely unhappy they didn't buff angel ray to hit mobs multiple times like other classes have. Our only multi hit skill is
big bang, and after this jump update it'd also be joined by a 200% damage multiple hit shining ray 3rd job skill....

It would be nice to have something in compensation for losing our only real solo training skill (genesis) since party experience keeps getting changed.

When I made the bishop to begin with the game was a different game entirely. I am trying to adjust to the new changes and high hp mobs etc etc.
What you are quoting is a response to someone that thought it was his duty to "correct" me that bishops shouldn't have dps. Which was because
to begin with I was/am extremely unhappy they didn't buff angel ray to hit mobs multiple times like other classes have. Our only multi hit skill is
big bang, and after this jump update it'd also be joined by a 200% damage multiple hit shining ray 3rd job skill....

It would be nice to have something in compensation for losing our only real solo training skill (genesis) since party experience keeps getting changed.

As the billion pages at the beginning of the thread have already hashed out, multi vs single hits doesn't actually matter for DPS...

Increasing the DPS of bishops isn't fixing them, it's just contributing to the problem. More support skills should be added to make them indispensable. And Training speeds must somehow be leveled, like HS giving them twice the effect it gives other.

Looking over this from a Build perspective, I think it makes it harder to decide what skills you want to keep.

For example, in 2nd job, Slow went DOWN 10 levels, but you gained a new 10 level skill. Slow was my dump skill (only 1 point). However, The new 10 pointer is a must have. I have to ignore slow altogether and pull 9 points out of another skill. (I am thinking it will be MPEater because it no longer has the same awesomeness after Chaos.) Now instead of having 1 ignored skill, I have 1 ignored and one incomplete.

For F/P:
2nd job:
Skip Fire Arrow, Poison Breath or MPE (PB is arguably better than FA now, hitting 6 for 280% vs 3 for 360%)

3rd job:
Skip seal, no questions asked.

4th job:
Now that one will be hard, pretty much all skills are quite good. Guess either Big Bang or Ifrit could be left a little lower (they are both good, but BB doesn't lose that much being a little lower level and Ifrit's elemental resist is not essential).

As the billion pages at the beginning of the thread have already hashed out, multi vs single hits doesn't actually matter for DPS...

Increasing the DPS of bishops isn't fixing them, it's just contributing to the problem. More support skills should be added to make them indispensable. And Training speeds must somehow be leveled, like HS giving them twice the effect it gives other.

I guess the biggest issue I see with the whole thing is that I would like some of the new things from the jump update to be for the bishop himself and not for the party he/she is in. I read through the entire topic and I refuse to even begin to start on that stupid argument going on back there. I will say from personal experience that it would be beneficial for knockback purposes to have multiple hits, and I have crit chance items that would benefit from it as well.

edit: I agree on the HS 2x for the bishop, but the problem remains that they still are weaker than hell without a party, and the exact same training skills/effects as before. Bishops deserve something cool to play with to keep things fresh as long as everyone else it getting them. So far it's looking like everything short of SR's change is made for everyone else not really for the bishop themself.

I'm gonna stop comment on how awesome F/Ps have become. I don't want a bandwagon.



They didn't lose Buff Mastery

According to this I/Ls are about 11.4% stronger.

Fiels data says:

Buff Mastery:
Removed skill

Is this not correct?

As for the other, I don't see how that can be correct.

CL time 690 -> 630ms
So Damage/time increased by (690-630)/630 = 9.5%
This is less than the decrease caused by the loss of 30 Mag.Attack (unless you have over 300 M. attack).

Support class in Maple is not a viable argument.

I'm inclined to agree a bit but only on the matter of a "pure support class."

When I made the bishop to begin with the game was a different game entirely. I am trying to adjust to the new changes and high hp mobs etc etc.
What you are quoting is a response to someone that thought it was his duty to "correct" me that bishops shouldn't have dps. Which was because
to begin with I was/am extremely unhappy they didn't buff angel ray to hit mobs multiple times like other classes have. Our only multi hit skill is
big bang, and after this jump update it'd also be joined by a 200% damage multiple hit shining ray 3rd job skill....

It would be nice to have something in compensation for losing our only real solo training skill (genesis) since party experience keeps getting changed.

What CarrionCrow said and what I interpreted was that bishops don't need DPS to be useful even though their DPS is already the lowest. And unless you're able to hit the damage cap with Angel Ray, it wouldn't matter if you were multi-hitting or single hitting. The only times multi-hits really have an advantage over single hits is for misses and arguably criticals (since that evens out in the long run).

double post sorry delete this one.

I'm inclined to agree a bit but only on the matter of a "pure support class."



What CarrionCrow said and what I interpreted was that bishops don't need DPS to be useful even though their DPS is already the lowest. And unless you're able to hit the damage cap with Angel Ray, it wouldn't matter if you were multi-hitting or single hitting. The only times multi-hits really have an advantage over single hits is for misses and arguably criticals (since that evens out in the long run).

It's about knockback pinning mobs and about exploiting my critical chance items and holy critical skill.

It's about knockback pinning mobs and about exploiting my critical chance items and holy critical skill.

I've already mentioned that criticals even out over time. Many others have explained it already.

As for KB pinning, why KB pin them when you can stun them with Teleport Mastery and Shining Ray?

I'm gonna stop comment on how awesome F/Ps have become. I don't want a bandwagon.

I already see a few players interested in making a F/P but I don't see a bandwagon for mages yet
compared to DrKs from the warrior update/DBs/Paladins.

May change later on though depending on the next few skill updates.

Buff Mastery is replaced by Magic Mastery... you still get 30MA and 50% increase in buff duration, just that it's now a toggle-able skill.

Hadriel

@dizzy

Are you freaking joking me?

Only in southperry would a person need to go this far explaining themselves over a comment.
Especially something as simple as wanting a 4th job spammable multi hit skill, just like every other class these days.

I already told you I am not getting into that junk from many pages back. I don't boss much, it isn't about bossing for me when I
am talking about criticals. You don't need to know that though, all you need to know is I and I'm sure other bishops would appreciate
a multiple hit spammable 4th job skill (AR or a new attack even).

@dizzy

Are you freaking joking me?

Only in southperry would a person need to go this far explaining themselves over a comment.
Especially something as simple as wanting a 4th job spammable multi hit skill, just like every other class these days.

I already told you I am not getting into that junk from many pages back. I don't boss much, it isn't about bossing for me when I
am talking about criticals. You don't need to know that though, all you need to know is I and I'm sure other bishops would appreciate
a multiple hit spammable 4th job skill (AR or a new attack even).

Don't freak out on me. It's unsightly. I didn't go far on overexplaining anything either. If you choose to be rude, I will dismiss you entirely. A couple of us already explained to you that there's little difference between single hits and multi-hits unless you can hit the damage cap. The fact you're refusing to accept that fact (which was not determined by me on any account) makes me see you as if you're a child who can old see the "coolness" factor of seeing hundreds of numbers appear on the screen for no explanable reason except for KB pin when there's other tools more viable at your disposal. Go back a few pages and at least try to understand them. Otherwise, it's not worth my time to explain further to you.

So a F/P AM can Paralyze/Mist for DoT at bossing and then use Eruption for 2700% (ignoring 50% def) every 10
seconds?

I wonder if Glacial Chain will get any additional damage/effects for bossing.

Even if Mist Eruption isn't stackable (don't really see a reason why it shouldn't be, mechanics-wise), a clean 900% X 3 (because what really has greater than 50% + 20%? M.Def) seems overpowered, it probably will see an adjustment down.

The more I look at Glacial Chain the more the animation begins to grate on my nerves, it's so fat. But yes, it needs something, I don't really know what but it needs something else...

I don't want to restart an argument, just need some clarification: I thought I understood the subject of KB, wouldn't less hits i.e. a single 8XX% attack KB better than 4 X 2XX%? Of course this depends on the KB value, but just in general. Duelman seems to indicate otherwise and knowing SP, someone should have caught it and berated him about it if he were wrong.

they should add 50% splash damage to Chain Lightning. That would synergize well with Glacial Chain.

eg. in a situation with 2 monsters. use Glacial Chain to pull them together, then Chain Lightning. Chain Lightning will do 856% + 50% damage to each monster. additional 50% is done from the splash damage from nearby monster.

Since Glacial Chain can pull up to 8 monsters, Chain Lightning can deal 856% + 50% + 50% + 50% + 50% + 50% + 50% + 50% = 1206% damage.


Since this would make I/L AM godly at mobbing, F/P AM should be given a "multicast" skill.

Multicast (Toggle On/Off)
Lvl 20 - 60% chance to activate Poison Brace, 30% chance to activate Poison Mist, 5% chance to activate Parazyle, with every attack.

Kinnda like Final Attack but activate your other skills at a certain chance, without the delay.
eg. if you cast Fire Demon, suddenly you can see Fire Demon + Poison Brace come out together. This way F/P can utilize all of their DoT skills. Oh and if you cast Paralyze, the 5% chance to activate another Paralyze still apply (double Paralyze). and 30% chance to activate Poison Mist work really well with Mist Eruption

I don't want to restart an argument, just need some clarification: I thought I understood the subject of KB, wouldn't less hits i.e. a single 8XX% attack KB better than 4 X 2XX%? Of course this depends on the KB value, but just in general. Duelman seems to indicate otherwise and knowing SP, someone should have caught it and berated him about it if he were wrong.

I caught it, but if say an attack that's 200% already can KB an enemy, an 800% attack won't KB it any better. Most monsters these days have strangely low KB requirements anyway. Incidentally, the subject he brought up was about KB pins, which, in my opinion, isn't necessary for bishops when they can stun (a hundred times better than KB pinning).