[1.2.378] Magicians in Jump

You said in ur arguement that a skill that does 1/4 dmg 4 times can kill a monster with one of those 1/4 atks meaning if you can do 4x the health of a monster if all hits connect, if so Nexon needs to design new mobs to train at.

Multi hit CL is a change from this patch even though it has been blown out of proportion

Yes but the argument has gone on too long. It's best to just drop it and ignore any more comments about it because at this point it's not going anywhere. Neither side is wrong neither side is right, leave it at that.

If your overkilling something by at least 4x dmg, the arguement shouldn't be about 1hit vrs multi, it should be you need more content

You could've been attacking that monster for 10 seconds already and just need 1 more hit to kill it. I'd rather not have to take the risk of having to waste another 2 seconds attacking before moving on to the next monster. Also, if you're training on things you can kill in 2 or 3 hits. With a single hit skill, you could hit low every time and take 3 hits to kill the monster. With a multi hit skill, the chance of this happening is much lower because you get more hits, so you're more likely to kill the monster in just 2 hits, which can save a lot of time training.

Thing is this whole "problem" has been solved way way back with Arrow Blow vs Double Shot, Double Stab vs Savage Blow and maybe some other combination of skills I've forgotten because it's freaking years ago. I believe the conclusion back then was that multi hit skills are more practical than single hit one. Can we go back to discussing the actual patch now?

So now that the changes are more clear, I/Ls get the BaM's Dark Chains with DoT, F/Ps can make mist explode for high damage, and Bishops get Advanced Bless? Not bad. I'm interested in whether advanced bless stack with other things.

I'd like to know too actually, but somehow I have a feeling that it's smart-casting and not a direct stacking.

Note that Glacial Chain has the same range as Advanced Dark Chains. Excellent.

Apparently Yo didn't read my argument properly. Limit of HP =/= maxHP of enemy is crappy.

Hadriel

I can make it interesting again...., this isnt pre-bb def and crits are %s. Anything supporting them is luck and dmg cap

Boring as in "wtp are we discussing this again?" let it die this isnt "Multi Hit Vs Single Hit Skills" Thread. Is "Magicians in Jump" thread, if you wanna keep discussing this then make a thread for it.

I stand by my statistical argument for the case of non-100% accuracy, and it is not some random number crap. Anyway, I will also stop talking about this. I hope others will too, because some don't seem to want to buy the AB/DS etc. discussions.

Do you all think that the DoT damage of all the F/P skills are sufficient to make up for the lost casting time compared to... say... spamming Para?

Hadriel

I stand by my statistical argument for the case of non-100% accuracy, and it is not some random number crap. Anyway, I will also stop talking about this. I hope others will too, because some don't seem to want to buy the AB/DS etc. discussions.

Do you all think that the DoT damage of all the F/P skills are sufficient to make up for the lost casting time compared to... say... spamming Para?

Hadriel

i'd use mist explosion anyway, it's just so damn cool. besides anyone not an f/p mage isnt going to know/care that you aren't doing optimal damage.

Boring as in "wtp are we discussing this again?" let it die this isnt "Multi Hit Vs Single Hit Skills" Thread. Is "Magicians in Jump" thread, if you wanna keep discussing this then make a thread for it.

On it.

Fine. Back to topic.

I wonder why they made BB a 90% freezing chance for I/L... Yes freezing is obviously very right (I've been waiting for this change for a long time), but for all our spells it has always been a 100%-freeze thing.

Fiel... is there still no way to obtain the range of BB? Otherwise are we going to spam BB just to see if we freeze the monster? Anyway what for when I can just Chain left and right and BB them to bits...

Hadriel

This seems to be as far as I can be and still have Big Bang hit the monster

 Spoiler

Hmm, maybe it'd be better to test on a stationary target, like Newties.

I stand by my statistical argument for the case of non-100% accuracy, and it is not some random number crap. Anyway, I will also stop talking about this. I hope others will too, because some don't seem to want to buy the AB/DS etc. discussions.

Do you all think that the DoT damage of all the F/P skills are sufficient to make up for the lost casting time compared to... say... spamming Para?

Hadriel

Poison mist was already worth casting before this patch (as was FD).
With poison explosion giving bonus damage with more DoT stacked on a single monster I'd think it will only increase the usefulness.

This seems to be as far as I can be and still have Big Bang hit the monster

 Spoiler

Hmm, maybe it'd be better to test on a stationary target, like Newties.

Looks unchanged... thanks. More difficult to test would be the vertical range... are we able to jump-release BB now? I'm a little slow sorry.

Hadriel

Looks unchanged... thanks. More difficult to test would be the vertical range... are we able to jump-release BB now? I'm a little slow sorry.

Hadriel

Yes:

 Spoiler

That's the best I could do to demonstrate it, releasing BB as I fell from one plat to the next.

Dayum IL mage seems so cool now with all the blue skills :O Guess I should be gathering int equips for my mage
Lol chains though, seems like a meh-usefull level 1 till 200 skill. (Still VERY much better than mana reflection though hehe)

Sarah is right with the 4hit debate. More hits make your damage more STABLE. Like say you do 4000 damage with 25% missrate, that is on average 3000 damage, yet you'll never hit 3000k, only 4000 and 0. The variance here will be alot bigger than when you hit 4 times 1000, where you'll be hitting 3000 alot, 2000 and 4000 sometimes and hardly ever 2000 1000 or 0.
If you don't know what a variance is, it's a measurement of stability.

It adds up in multiple hits. Say you have to kill a mob of 30000 hp, that is 10 hits on average for both cases, yet case one the kill will be done in 7 to 13 kills where in the second case it will be done in 9 to 11. This has a negative effect on killing a mob of say 4: In case one you're likely going to cast 13 times, while in case 2 only 11 times.

Anyways this is just a sideeffect, I think they did it for the damage cap.

The AVERAGE of both cases are the same, the VARIANCE/stability differs. Theres the confusion.

If you think about it (quasi) infinite hits would mean you'd hit exactly the same damage every hit.


Same goes for crits, just replace miss/0dmg with crit/6000 dmg. Hitting more makes critting more stable.

Yes:

 Spoiler

That's the best I could do to demonstrate it, releasing BB as I fell from one plat to the next.

That's more akin to sliding while casting a skill and running to the border. I'd imagine you still can't jump-cast BB.

Yes:

 Spoiler

That's the best I could do to demonstrate it, releasing BB as I fell from one plat to the next.

Wow excellent. Now I can snipe with BB XD. Thanks man! With 123 Jump, jump-releasing could mean all sorts of wacky attacking styles... heh. Just for fun.

Glacial Chain synergies very very well with BB. Loving them to bits (I already love my BaM for it, now I love my I/L even more)

*edit* ^probably not jump-cast, in that you definitely cannot start charging BB while in mid-air, but more of a releasing BB when jumping. Issue was with getting KB-ed by monsters while releasing BB, leading to wasted charge-up. I wasn't sure if it was addressed in earlier patches.

Hadriel

Wow excellent. Now I can snipe with BB XD. Thanks man! With 123 Jump, jump-releasing could mean all sorts of wacky attacking styles... heh. Just for fun.

Glacial Chain synergies very very well with BB. Loving them to bits (I already love my BaM for it, now I love my I/L even more)

*edit* ^probably not jump-cast, in that you definitely cannot start charging BB while in mid-air, but more of a releasing BB when jumping. Issue was with getting KB-ed by monsters while releasing BB, leading to wasted charge-up. I wasn't sure if it was addressed in earlier patches.

Hadriel

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. I thought getting KBed canceling BB was fixed during Big Bang, but apparently, that isn't so. You can release in the air, which you can't do now, but of course you can't start casting in the air. I have a video currently being uploaded to YouTube if you'd like to see it, I think I'll make a F/P in the mean time.
[video=youtube;54vCzxhk3Mg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54vCzxhk3Mg[/video]

I was going to make an I/L but 6-mob Breath and Mist Eruption are just sex.

14 more days.

F/P
- Arcane Aim (4): permanently ignores 20% of monster's defence; and increases final damage by up to 40% when attacking a single target continuously
- Paralyse (4): new effect; changed to multi hit (3 times); increased maximum no. of targets; the damage penalty when attacking lots of monsters deleted

I/L
- Arcane Aim (4): permanently ignores 20% of monster's defence; increases final damage up to 40% when attacking one monster continuously
- Chain Lightning (4): thicker light effect-wise, multi hit (4 hits); stun effect added, max no. of targets increased, range increased; damage panelty inflicted when attacking lots of monsters deleted

Do want.

P.S. CL's damage went from 850% to 856%, so I don't even see why the hell are you people discussing about what's better.

P.S. CL's damage went from 850% to 856%, so I don't even see why the hell are you people discussing about what's better.

Paralyze damage went from 770% to 771%, SWEET BOOST!

Paralyze damage went from 770% to 771%, SWEET BOOST!

Edit: Still a boost. `-`

I kinda skipped the last page or two but OMG I/L CHANGES YUMMMMmm.

No, it went from 1x770% to 3x257 so yeah.