How has B/W changed the metagame?

This I'm very curious about, because I'm seeing on Bulbapedia tons of 5th gen Pokemon that seem to have unbelievable stat distributions, types, stats, abilites, or even a combination of the four.

Some examples are Pokemon like Conkledurr and Excadrill. Conkledurr on Bulbapedia is zetta slow, but his defenses as well as offense seem very top notch for a Pokemon that hits even harder than Machamp, just because they can redistribute his lack of speed stats into his offense/defense stats. They even lowered his special attack so low that it only continues to make this Pokemon even stronger. Combined with the fact it can be bred Drain Punch and Mach Punch (hory shyt!), you got a true juggernaut that can not only take hits, but can actually move faster than a fragile Sweeper thanks to Mach Punch. Then Excadrill, my god, just from one Smogon article about him he seems to be the in-game version of Simon/Kamina, being so amazing and powerful that they can tear through even counters with little problem.

*That reminds me, I'm going to name my Excadrill Simon.

Then there's the whole slew of dragons I found on Bulbapedia B/W has introduced that are nothing short of being possibly better than Salamance/Garchomp. Some big deal breakers are final evolutions without Flying type (pure, Dark, or even Ice) so no lolIceBeamfor4xdamage, making Ice types less of a threat against the new Dragons.

Then there's very absurd items introduced like that Evolution Stone that makes unevolved Pokemon tougher than their evolved counterparts, wth? Then there's Dream World abilities, which some are so powerful it pushes previously bad Pokemon to awesome tier or previously popular Pokemon already in good tier to god tier (Gyarados with Moxie, anyone?), and pushes some down to garbage tier just because they can't get a good ability. So many changes and new things, it's all so crazy.




I dunno, there's just seems to be tons and tons of very well statted/typed Pokemon in this generation, and with good abilities too. There's still Pokemon from this Gen that you wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole (like DERPFACE fish), but in comparison with the previous games this one seems to have many new Pokemon that can easily give the previous Gens a run for their money.

Since I'm still on my 5th badge, I'd like to hear from the people who are done with the game to know how much more complex/interesting the metagame's gotten with so many new/good things.

I would like to stat that the situation with garydos is nil.

Intermediate is much better for garydos. With it, it can force switches and even be able to take hits while garydos switches in. Moxie is just a thing that seems broken in theory, but in all honestly isnt that bad.

The 4x weak to dragon thing, i think they fixed a lot fo that in 4th gen already. Just look at roost, it removes flying type completely, so those hard hitters like dragonite and salamence can't be taken down so easily with ice anyway.

Conkeledurr seems great, but he still isnt going to be on my team. His def is superb, but i can vouch that one normal effective special attack brings him down.
Not too sure abuot excadrill, because with the release of ninetails draught and drizzle politoad, sandstorm based teams now got a run for their money.

Sorry for the scatter brainness, but back to dragons. Haxorus is def an all out massive sweeper, but its huge flaw is its pitiful defenses. I can bring down my friends haxorus to almost no hp just by using a normal special attack. So there is a balance in there. The triple headed dragon thing...yea that might be border line going into uber. He has almost straight 100s across the board, a decent typing, and levitate. He will cause problems, but a team should be able to take it down.

Eviolite- Man that item is hacks. It makes blissey useless unless you want some sort of freak attacking one (HAHA yea right). But look at it this way, it just makes tanks better...well tanks. What pokemon are really affected by this? Chansey....and...uh can't really think of any other pokemon. In all honestly i woudl prefer more attack from the evolution than the beedf up defense on my pokemon.

So what has 5th gen done? Well its causing hell at smogon ( xD) because well, a lot of things do seem to destroy their tiers. I dont really think its much of a problem, i think of it as a new way to battle. I will say this though about smogon, I believe their terms for uber are now outdated. I believe their using 4th gen principles in order to classify 5th gen pokemon, which won't work. GameFreak seemed to have rocked the foundation of pokemon, and now its time to hold on to the ride.

Excadrill is based on Simon, Krookodile (the Ground/Dark aligator) is based on Kamina. I couldn't fit the star shaped glasses on Excadrill though.

As for the metagame, some of the biggest changes would be the huge increase in weather usage; Drizzle and Drought are now available outside of ubers, and Pokémon like Excadrill do extremely well in sand. There's also been a massive power creep which makes stalling a lot harder. Dream World abilities make both old and new Pokémon much more usefull(Ditto becomes one of the best revenge killers in the game with Imposter, Espeon/Xatu can reflect just about any non-attack move with Bounce, Blaziken got banned for speeding). There are quite a few new interesting abilities(Prankster, Illusion) and items(Balloon). Quite a few moves are no longer TMs(Stealth Rock, Dark Pulse), which means they're a lot harder to obtain. Another big thing (which I believe killed suicide leads) is the team preview(which in fact does not kill Zoroark).

There's also the new random online matches, where the 1v1 battles are fought with 3 Pokémon for each player, without any clauses. This means you will need different strategies for the ingame battles. And of course there are triple and rotation battles. Like you said, crazy stuff.

In my opinion, stealth rock was horrible. I know it was a necessary evil to prevent people from constant switching (such as swithcing a flying type in while the other person does earthquake over and over) but I didnt like how it condemmed usage of certains types because they were weak to rock.

I have mixed opinion about team preview. Sorta kills some surprise imo, but meh, maybe its just me.

I hate how a lot of people on smogon are trying to ban vulpix and politoed because they affect weather. There excuse - swift swim makes metagame broken. Um yea, thats why you allow tyranitar with excadrill right? >_> Like I said, there trying to create 5th gen metagame rules with 4th gen principles. They really think you can be 'prepared' for everything with one team, but thats not true. You can't handle every strategy with one team, and this is what makes me believe on how some of those people are basing off their 'banning' of certain pokemon.

Not gonna argue with SwiftSwimRain ban, because quite frankly, if a Shell Break Omastar in rain can 2hko Blissey you know something's up. Excadrill has at least some counters, namely Gliscor. Don't see Drought Ninetales getting banned soon, Sun is a bit too weak. Keep in mind that Drought and Sandstorm might get banned, though. It's just that Drought got banned first because Rain is obviously a lot more powerful than Drought and Sandstorm.

I can't believe Flygon didn't get anything good. He better get something in Grey version T~~T.

I barely see Stealth Rock anymore, maybe 25% of the teams. There's too many things that can easily block it. Whimsical, Magic Mirror, etc...

I don't see too much of Haxorus, either. His 99 base speed is killing it.

I hate how a lot of people on smogon are trying to ban vulpix and politoed because they affect weather. There excuse - swift swim makes metagame broken. Um yea, thats why you allow tyranitar with excadrill right? >_> Like I said, there trying to create 5th gen metagame rules with 4th gen principles. They really think you can be 'prepared' for everything with one team, but thats not true. You can't handle every strategy with one team, and this is what makes me believe on how some of those people are basing off their 'banning' of certain pokemon.

I haven't played any 5th gen competitive due to losing interest, but Swift Swim is extremely powerful and does deserve looking at. Rain is hands down the best weather in the game. Sandstorm only increases Sp.D for Rock, a generally weak defensive type, and does some minor damage per turn. And yet it's enough to give your team a significant advantage. With Swift Swim, Rain does 3 things for your Pokemon:
1. Double STAB (2.25x) damage on ALL Water attacks, stacks with +Attack bonuses
2. Double Speed stat
3. 100% accuracy Thunder/Hurricane, if you're running it
So it's effectively better than a free Growth and a free Agility. I mean, that's pretty fucking good.

Looks like Dusk didn't hear of Swift Sand and Sand Power yet.

Looks like Dusk didn't hear of Swift Sand and Sand Power yet.

Sand Rush and Sand Force

Weather seems to be the defining force of this gen, according to the above.

Perfect bandtar is a-go.

I haven't played any 5th gen competitive due to losing interest, but Swift Swim is extremely powerful and does deserve looking at. Rain is hands down the best weather in the game. Sandstorm only increases Sp.D for Rock, a generally weak defensive type, and does some minor damage per turn. And yet it's enough to give your team a significant advantage. With Swift Swim, Rain does 3 things for your Pokemon:


1. Double STAB (2.25x) damage on ALL Water attacks, stacks with +Attack bonuses
2. Double Speed stat
3. 100% accuracy Thunder/Hurricane, if you're running it
So it's effectively better than a free Growth and a free Agility. I mean, that's pretty fucking good.

So to recap:

Rain Dance:

1. Double STAB (2.25x) damage on ALL Water attacks, stacks with +Attack bonuses
2. Double Speed stat
3. 100% accuracy Thunder/Hurricane, if you're running it
4. Activates numerous abilities: Dry Skin, Hydration, Rain Dish, Swift swim (point 2)
5. -50% fire damage

Sunny Day:
1. Double STAB (2.25x) damage on ALL fire attacks, stacks with +Attack bonuses
2. Double Speed stat (chlorophyll)
3. Kills off the accuracy of Thunder/Hurricane (down to either 40 or 50, conflicting reports).
4. Activates numerous abilities: Solar Power, Leaf Guard, Flower Gift, Chlorophyll, Dry Skin (negatively), and... once again chlorophyll (point 2).
5. -50% water damage
6. Instant solarbeam.
((So fire types can weaken their rival water types and if they have access to solarbeam, can take em out instantly, water types get nothing similar (due specifically to rain dance!) to deal with threats against them.

Hurricane: To take out threatening grass types, but the only pokemon that get this that are also water types are water/flying... which aren't threathened by grass.

Thunder: doesn't counter any water threats that I know of.))

7. Moonlight/Synthesis/Morning Sun +recovery. (50% ->67%)




I dunno~ Both sunlight and rain seem rather nice. It's not that one weather is technically better than another (though tbh, it almost seems like sun > rain).

So to recap:

Rain Dance:

1. Double STAB (2.25x) damage on ALL Water attacks, stacks with +Attack bonuses
2. Double Speed stat
3. 100% accuracy Thunder/Hurricane, if you're running it
4. Activates numerous abilities: Dry Skin, Hydration, Rain Dish, Swift swim (point 2)
5. -50% fire damage

Sunny Day:
1. Double STAB (2.25x) damage on ALL fire attacks, stacks with +Attack bonuses
2. Double Speed stat (chlorophyll)
3. Kills off the accuracy of Thunder/Hurricane (down to either 40 or 50, conflicting reports).
4. Activates numerous abilities: Solar Power, Leaf Guard, Flower Gift, Chlorophyll, Dry Skin (negatively), and... once again chlorophyll (point 2).
5. -50% water damage
6. Instant solarbeam.
((So fire types can weaken their rival water types and if they have access to solarbeam, can take em out instantly, water types get nothing similar (due specifically to rain dance!) to deal with threats against them.

Hurricane: To take out threatening grass types, but the only pokemon that get this that are also water types are water/flying... which aren't threathened by grass.

Thunder: doesn't counter any water threats that I know of.))

7. Moonlight/Synthesis/Morning Sun +recovery. (50% ->67%)




I dunno~ Both sunlight and rain seem rather nice. It's not that one weather is technically better than another (though tbh, it almost seems like sun > rain).

Fire was a pomegranate type in general in Gen 4 and no Fire-type Pokemon had Chlorophyll.

Fire was a pomegranate type in general in Gen 4 and no Fire-type Pokemon had Chlorophyll.

I was listing general boosts.

I guess I'll be more general:
rain dance > sunny day in that a single pokemon can get boosts 1 & 2, whereas the same thing isn't possible with sunny day.

But sunny day gives more boosts in general to a variety of pokemon.

Sand Rush and Sand Force

I'm still used to the Japanese translation names :3.

I was listing general boosts.

I guess I'll be more general:
rain dance > sunny day in that a single pokemon can get boosts 1 & 2, whereas the same thing isn't possible with sunny day.

But sunny day gives more boosts in general to a variety of pokemon.

Too bad they're all too generally weak to abuse them (although Venusaur and Ulgamoth (english name please, fire/bug moth thingy)) rape).

I'm still used to the Japanese translation names :3.



Too bad they're all too generally weak to abuse them (although Venusaur and Ulgamoth (english name please, fire/bug moth thingy)) rape).

Volcarona

You should check out the site. It's super simple and an awesome resource for moves/pokemon in general. It's not as detailed as serebii in that it doesn't describe everything about the game for you... but it's still great.

All gen 5 pokes for you (english names)

Volcarona

You should check out the site. It's super simple and an awesome resource for moves/pokemon in general. It's not as detailed as serebii in that it doesn't describe everything about the game for you... but it's still great.

All gen 5 pokes for you (english names)

Meh I'll learn them eventually. It's just weird when my friends say "Wtp is a Sazandora?"

Meh I'll learn them eventually. It's just weird when my friends say "Wtp is a Sazandora?"

I still say Chillachino. I prefer most of the JP names over the English names.

Also, don't forget Morning Sun Scizor in the sun is pretty amazing. But you've got to make sure you set up or sweep after opposing fire types are dealt with.

-ugh wrong topic-