Another UA Nightlord Question(s)

Should be able to get about 12 dex on an overall and 3 dex on a shoe by scrolling them normally...
Cape -> 10 dex is pretty easy
belt -> 5 dex
eyewear -> not worth the effort IMO
earrings -> 10 dex should be buyable
rings -> 16-20 dex
pendant -> 5 dex
medal -> 2 dex? I forget what exactly the UA special one has.

That's only about 67 dex though... Getting +116 dex without using godly armor is not gonna be easy. My NL only has +114 dex, and it's got a 22 dex helm + 26 dex from top+bottom.

Really I'd just buy Maple Claws or Visitor Claws and use those instead... instead of having to buy/scroll 9-10 godly equips, you just need one.

Though, without the full set bonus the special outfit is kind of useless.

Though, without the full set bonus the special outfit is kind of useless.

IMO, using the set long term would require scrolling and cubing them well. Also note that you get pineappled if a 90% potential fails on any of the 5 equips, and you lose out from how thieves are able to wear top/bot for more equips to potential. Personally, I don't see how any class gains long term benefits from the empress set; Chaos zhelm more than makes up for the +all stats and bonus from the hat, Von Leon gloves have 2 more slots and there's the option to PSoK and resell either if you're not satisfied anymore (major investments in your empress set are only good if you're going to be using them forever).

Well I've got my work cut out for me.
Bad thing about the set overall is that it only has 7 slots... wtp....

I'm not too good at statistics... Can someone tell me the odds of success, of scrolling all 5 pieces of the set with advanced potential scrolls?

If I can just get one of the sets to be completely potential'd, then its just a matter of tedious and expensive cubeing to try to get that dex up.
Hopefully I will figure out some way to make mad NX with MTS before then...

Anyway it does feel nice being able to solo papa pixie in the dojo at lvl 52!
I'm gonna be pretty pro from 50 to 70, but after that.... well.... I don't like to think about my damage after 70....

59% chance of all 5 passing, 33% chance of 4 passing (about 8% chance of 2+ fails)

3rd job's easy now, seriously don't worry about upgrading gear until you start training LHC (at which point you should use a Scarlion or CZak anyway)

double edit..... I accidentally made a basil post on southperry.

hopefully that image tag is gonna work...

So far, everything is going semi good, Got one gfa to work on the glove, and failed the next, got a 60% to work on the claw.

Anyway this is a Dexless Sin UA

EDIT:

I DO have a question though.....

Since I have vampire (and dont think its nerfed at all really), I'm seriously considering skipping drain all together...
But if I did do that... What should I do? Max booster? Or go crazy and max disorder (which I really never use, and I hear it dont effect bosses)?

1. Vampire sucks. It's been said over and over again with definitive proof. Both in damage and healing.

2. You max out all of second job at the end of third job. Shadow Meso is completely useless and you'll be using the points in that to apply to whatever you didn't max in second job.

3. And why you would rather max Disorder over Drain is beyond me. Except for maybe playing a late April Fools joke on yourself.

Hmmm.... Well thanks!

I am finding that vampire can kill jesters at lvl 66 rather easily, also it's multi target drain is not.
But I guess im gonna max drain anyway... So I guess I'll go ahead and max booster first.

Either way, you can prolly tell I never made a real sin before, just a cyg.

[SPOILER=Eckhart's Vampire]
Range: 400%
Delay: 1350ms
Damage: 90% x 4
Mobs: 3

DPS: 266.7%/s
Healing: 7.2% per attack, 5.3%/s

Comparison:

Skill:	DPS	Mobs	Min Lvl
Drain:	296.3%/s	1	37
Drain (Healing):	133.3%/s	1	37
Avenger:	416.7%/s	6	77
Steal:	370.4%/s	4	37
Band of Thieves:	487.7%/s	6	77
Chakra (Healing):	Tons more than Vampire

As far as I am aware, Vampire is not affected by Shadow Partner, so it will be inherently 1.5x weaker than every skill listed in practice.

Conclusion:
pomegranate skill is pomegranate. Can't heal worth crap, takes a long time to use, and does almost no damage. If you think a Shadower would find this useful, Chakra scales with your stats, allowing it to literally heal more HP than you have in 4th job. For Vampire to heal more than 1k HP, you need an average damage range of over 15000.


From this thread. It's really not worth making an assassin just to have Vampire.

Hmmm.... Well thanks!

I am finding that vampire can kill jesters at lvl 66 rather easily, also it's multi target drain is not.
But I guess im gonna max drain anyway... So I guess I'll go ahead and max booster first.

Either way, you can prolly tell I never made a real sin before, just a cyg.

There's no advantage early on to max Booster than there is to max Drain. Booster gives the same attack speed bonus throughout all of its levels. The only thing worthwhile about maxing Booster early is a difference in 90 second duration for the buff. Drain on the other hand, becomes stronger and heals more. And just because Vampire kills fast at level 66 doesn't mean it's a great skill. Everything dies fast at level 66 through 120.

However, I'm under the impression that you just won't take the advice. You already have it set in your mind what you want to do, which leads me to wonder why you even ask questions here. :|

Yeah well, I most def did max booster first, then put drain at like 6...

Uh at the above, I know for an undeniable fact that vampire does work with shadowpartner, on cygs.
Maybe echearts vampire or whatever don't work with shadow.

As far as me not taking advice, once you reminded me of shadow meso sucking, I took yer advice, quite smartly maxing booster first, because what.... am I gonna use drain on easy balrog? Am I gonna use it on ani (in that case probably yes), but for sheer convenience, just so I don't have to cast my macro again, I went booster first, because in any situation before lvl 120, lvl 10 drain & vampire will probably keep me alive.

And everyone who is hating on vampire, has no appreciation for the concept of "Knockback" in maplestory.
Vampires crazy erratic way it hits, and perfect auto-targeting (like a spell) allow it to horde enemies into what I like to call a "manageable position" which usually means they are clumped together at the corner of their platform, and the thing is, you do not have to wait for vampire to finish before launching another skill, meaning, while the enemies are still suffering the knockback of vampire, you're sending a L7 / avenger their way to finish em off.

I did not make a Dexless UA sin to enjoy the greatness of vampire, I did it, because if you can add wep atk to a sin, it benefits them more than most classes, and UAs happen to get a lot of free weapon atk from their equips and medal etc.

Well I guess I did it for fun... And it is fun.

But to say I didn't take yer advice would be wrong. And to say that vampire is "bad" is subjective.

To say I get a lot of "WTFs" from lvl 75s who see me KSing them with vampire, before lvl 70 would be objective.

Uh at the above, I know for an undeniable fact that vampire does work with shadowpartner, on cygs.
Maybe echearts vampire or whatever don't work with shadow.

Actually, it doesn't. Well, if you wanna be nitpicky, it works (as in, you can use the skill), but there won't be any extra hits from SP.

And everyone who is hating on vampire, has no appreciation for the concept of "Knockback" in maplestory.
Vampires crazy erratic way it hits, and perfect auto-targeting (like a spell) allow it to horde enemies into what I like to call a "manageable position" which usually means they are clumped together at the corner of their platform, and the thing is, you do not have to wait for vampire to finish before launching another skill, meaning, while the enemies are still suffering the knockback of vampire, you're sending a L7 / avenger their way to finish em off.

IF it deals enough damage to knockback, sure, but I think it's still better to just throw like 3 Avengers instead of 1 Vampire.

Well I guess I did it for fun... And it is fun.

If you're having fun, listen to no one and enjoy Vampire.

Yeah well, I most def did max booster first, then put drain at like 6...

Uh at the above, I know for an undeniable fact that vampire does work with shadowpartner, on cygs.
Maybe echearts vampire or whatever don't work with shadow.

As far as me not taking advice, once you reminded me of shadow meso sucking, I took yer advice, quite smartly maxing booster first, because what.... am I gonna use drain on easy balrog? Am I gonna use it on ani (in that case probably yes), but for sheer convenience, just so I don't have to cast my macro again, I went booster first, because in any situation before lvl 120, lvl 10 drain & vampire will probably keep me alive.

And everyone who is hating on vampire, has no appreciation for the concept of "Knockback" in maplestory.
Vampires crazy erratic way it hits, and perfect auto-targeting (like a spell) allow it to horde enemies into what I like to call a "manageable position" which usually means they are clumped together at the corner of their platform, and the thing is, you do not have to wait for vampire to finish before launching another skill, meaning, while the enemies are still suffering the knockback of vampire, you're sending a L7 / avenger their way to finish em off.

I did not make a Dexless UA sin to enjoy the greatness of vampire, I did it, because if you can add wep atk to a sin, it benefits them more than most classes, and UAs happen to get a lot of free weapon atk from their equips and medal etc.

Well I guess I did it for fun... And it is fun.

But to say I didn't take yer advice would be wrong. And to say that vampire is "bad" is subjective.

To say I get a lot of "wtps" from lvl 75s who see me KSing them with vampire, before lvl 70 would be objective.

Vampire -used- to be a very good skill, before Big Bang.

Criticals were additive instead of multiplicative:
=> Before BB => 4x 40% base dmg => 4x 140% base dmg (critical) = 250% increase.
=> Before BB => 4x 40% base dmg => 4x 280% base dmg (critical) = 600% increase with SE active (Vampire with SE was a boss slayer).
=> After BB => 4x 60% base dmg => 4x 80% ~ 4x 110% base dmg (critical) = 33% ~ 83% increase.
==> DPS wise, Vampire is seriously weakened.

Venom used to stack 3 times:
=> Venom did like 20k ~ 40k per second DoT before BB, using Vampire's 4x hit per monster, it almost always activated and Vampire's damage got boosted a LOT.
=> Venom now does like 5k ~ 10k per second DoT after BB (unless you have a shietload of cubed gear...). Vampire's damage get's hardly boosted with Venom while training.

Besides that:
- Avenger can now be thrown with a monster 1 pixel in front of you, there is no more claw punch, Vampire -used- to be unique to this (no punch) for a claw player, now it also lost that edge.
- The heal ratio of Eckart's Vampire is only 2% of the damage, NW's Vampire heals 5% of the damage done, that's a 250% nerf...
- Eckart's Vampire only hits 3 monsters max, NW's Vampire hits 6, nerfing both DPS -and- HEALING usefulness.

Oh btw, NW's Vampire doesn't work with Shadow Partner, it only hits 4 times per monster, with or without SP.

Now when you compare it to Soul Driver for Ultimate Adventurers, it does like 25% Vampire's DPS, and -also- hits more monsters.

So yeah, sadly Vampire sux, especially when you compare it to other UA skills, but also when you compare it with Avenger, which does -way- more DPS, since it works with SP, and SP also gets boosted in 4th job with that star mastery skill. Vampire falls behind a lot here. While Soul Driver for UA Warriors even gets (on average) 1.5x stronger in 4th job...

But if you like Vampire, just keep using it, but when you have max Drain, Avenger, SP, and SP enhance, in 4th job, you'll see why the UA skills are unfair balanced across the classes.

It's just Nexon at work here, they just don't understand what they're doing.

Uh at the above, I know for an undeniable fact that vampire does work with shadowpartner, on cygs.

No, it doesn't.

As far as me not taking advice, once you reminded me of shadow meso sucking, I took yer advice, quite smartly maxing booster first, because what.... am I gonna use drain on easy balrog? Am I gonna use it on ani (in that case probably yes), but for sheer convenience, just so I don't have to cast my macro again, I went booster first, because in any situation before lvl 120, lvl 10 drain & vampire will probably keep me alive.

90 seconds difference doesn't mean a whole lot when it's already 110 seconds at level 11. However, healing 17% compared to 45% makes a world's amount of difference.

And everyone who is hating on vampire, has no appreciation for the concept of "Knockback" in maplestory.
Vampires crazy erratic way it hits, and perfect auto-targeting (like a spell) allow it to horde enemies into what I like to call a "manageable position" which usually means they are clumped together at the corner of their platform, and the thing is, you do not have to wait for vampire to finish before launching another skill, meaning, while the enemies are still suffering the knockback of vampire, you're sending a L7 / avenger their way to finish em off.

If you can't knockback monsters with Lucky 7, you can't knockback monsters with Vampire. Vampire is weak. Furthermore, like Devil said, Avenger has better knockback capabilities than Avenger any day of the week due to its damage and speed. UA thieves would have been better off with Poison Bomb or even the purple Flash Jump.

I did not make a Dexless UA sin to enjoy the greatness of vampire, I did it, because if you can add wep atk to a sin, it benefits them more than most classes, and UAs happen to get a lot of free weapon atk from their equips and medal etc.

2 weapon attack from a medal means nothing. It can easily be gained anywhere else. If you're talking about free weapon attack from equipment sets, later equipment alone can carry far more than the level 80 Empress set with ease.

Well I guess I did it for fun... And it is fun.

But to say I didn't take yer advice would be wrong. And to say that vampire is "bad" is subjective.

To say I get a lot of "wtps" from lvl 75s who see me KSing them with vampire, before lvl 70 would be objective.

First off, KS-ing is bad. Second off, you acted exactly like I thought you would:

However, I'm under the impression that you just won't take the advice. You already have it set in your mind what you want to do, which leads me to wonder why you even ask questions here. :|

There's really no reason to keep answering your questions when all you want is justification for making a lousy choice for an Ultimate Adventurer.

Not true. Monsters usually have very low knockback (Windraiders, before big bang, and maybe still, have ZERO knockback).
Meaning even if you miss them, they still get knocked back. Also my lucky 7 knocks back anything (other than some bosses) I throw it at. So why would one use vampire? Because if it DOES knock the enemy (or 3) back at all that disrupts them, its a second of you not getting attacked, which can be the difference between you getting knocked off of yer platform, and you staying on it.

From the lvls of 50 to 70, Vampire did me well. I had a mob skill as a sin at lvl 50... So... I know this math prolly does not work in my favor, but... Is hitting 3 monsters for 85% damage (or whatever this weak ass skill does, as was outlined quite nicely by Devil above), could that ever outdamage a lucky 7 on one monster? Well im pretty sure if lucky hit its low range and didnt crit, and then vampire hit is max ranged and crit'd with all of its hits, I think its damage can Sometimes beat lucky 7. (Though it will almost always lose if you use vamp on 1 mon, instead of 3 - I'm talking total damage output here).

At the very least it does speed up training at crows, especially when you learn how to "Jumpire" (I just coined that), and jump to KS other people by killing their platform with vampire. I am going to be trying to get a Screenshot of Neovicious proving that vampire does work with shadow partner, if I am wrong, I will admit it, but I played many hours as a cyg, and it always looked to me, like it was doing twice as many hits.

Now, about yer assumptions that you understand my motivations for making this thread, well:

I guess there's a small chance that our entire universe could suddenly be sucked into a singularity this very instant, students of entropy will know... that is a Non-zero chance as far as physics is concerned, so taking that into account, perhaps you are right and I want "justification for making a lousy choice for an Ultimate Adventurer."

I guess that is also a non-zero chance.

But to assume that you know whats going on inside the mind of another man (one who you have never even met in real life at that), is usually a fallacy on the part of the guy who thinks he has access to that info.

I personally think the title of this thread kinda sums up what I wanted out of it... Advice. I had "Another UA Nightlord question".
I am quite guilty of not taking much of yall's advice (although I did for some reason take the advice of my biggest detractor as far as I am concerned, at least about Drain, which yes I will eventually max). I'm also guilty of playing Devil's Advocate, for a skill that most agree sucks. But... I'd rather be a Sin WITH vampire (all other things being equal) than without it. It did make me look quite pro at scarecrows and got me to lvl 55 in about 45 min, at which point I went to Hoodos (cuz I'm nuts... and a noob I guess, I just like hoodos better).

Anyway... have you ever heard the term "Water off a pineapples back"?

Probably not, because I just made it, yet, I think it neatly sums up my attitude in regards to a certain user, who for evey reason I can think of (been here longer, is more pro, better at maple, probably even a hotter girlfriend) should have shut me down a while ago with his constant derogatory tone.

Unfortunately, the threats of not responding, are rolling off of my back much like water off of a pineapples back.

Cuz I'm a pineapple.... always have been. But I'm a good pineapple, more concerned with bringing my fellow maplers UP than bringin' em down. And when I encounter cats like this (especially on the internet)... It just makes me feel invincible.

EDIT: changed an embarrising P-UP

Super-edit - Yes I was wrong about vampire and SP... Ya got me...

When would you be standing that close to the edge of a platform?

To the people hating on UA NLs: They are better than regular NLs if you HP wash a few times. Not because of Vampire. Vampire sucks. It's because of the 4 base dex.

Not true. Monsters usually have very low knockback (Windraiders, before big bang, and maybe still, have ZERO knockback).
Meaning even if you miss them, they still get knocked back. Also my lucky 7 knocks back anything (other than some bosses) I throw it at. So why would one use vampire? Because if it DOES knock the enemy (or 3) back at all that disrupts them, its a second of you not getting attacked, which can be the difference between you getting knocked off of yer platform, and you staying on it.

Monsters with low Knockback requirements would be dead before you even need to knock them back to where you want them to be. That's how it works ever since BigBang. Vampire used for Knockback purposes serve little use when it's outright better to kill the monsters themselves. The only exceptions to this are LHC monsters.

From the lvls of 50 to 70, Vampire did me well. I had a mob skill as a sin at lvl 50... So... I know this math prolly does not work in my favor, but... Is hitting 3 monsters for 85% damage (or whatever this weak ass skill does, as was outlined quite nicely by Devil above), could that ever outdamage a lucky 7 on one monster? Well im pretty sure if lucky hit its low range and didnt crit, and then vampire hit is max ranged and crit'd with all of its hits, I think its damage can Sometimes beat lucky 7. (Though it will almost always lose if you use vamp on 1 mon, instead of 3 - I'm talking total damage output here).

Vampire doesn't outdamage Lucky 7 over time either, even versus 3 monsters. Especially not after BigBang and the UA version. Three factors contribute to this.

1. The lowered damage on UA's Vampire obviously.
2. Vampire is extremely slow.
3. Lucky 7 has its own damage formula which lets it output 10% to 20% more damage than normal.

At the very least it does speed up training at crows, especially when you learn how to "Jumpire" (I just coined that), and jump to KS other people by killing their platform with vampire. I am going to be trying to get a Screenshot of Neovicious proving that vampire does work with shadow partner, if I am wrong, I will admit it, but I played many hours as a cyg, and it always looked to me, like it was doing twice as many hits.

Learning to "jumpire" isn't necessary. If you can't figure out how to jump and attack in Maple by the time you're a 2nd job Assassin, that would be the bigger mystery. Why did you even bother needing a screenshot? I already posted one right here. And once again, KS-ing is bad.

-snip about some philosophical talk-

What you said had nothing to do with what I even mentioned aside from flat out ignoring advice. Whatever, your character.

------

To the people hating on UA NLs: They are better than regular NLs if you HP wash a few times. Not because of Vampire. Vampire sucks. It's because of the 4 base dex.

The only difference is base LUK would cap at 999 instead of 997. The remainder points would go towards 23 DEX instead of 25 DEX. Not a big difference at all.

Monsters with low Knockback requirements would be dead before you even need to knock them back to where you want them to be. That's how it works ever since BigBang. Vampire used for Knockback purposes serve little use when it's outright better to kill the monsters themselves. The only exceptions to this are LHC monsters.



Vampire doesn't outdamage Lucky 7 over time either, even versus 3 monsters. Especially not after BigBang and the UA version. Three factors contribute to this.

1. The lowered damage on UA's Vampire obviously.
2. Vampire is extremely slow.
3. Lucky 7 has its own damage formula which lets it output 10% to 20% more damage than normal.


Learning to "jumpire" isn't necessary. If you can't figure out how to jump and attack in Maple by the time you're a 2nd job Assassin, that would be the bigger mystery. Why did you even bother needing a screenshot? I already posted one right here. And once again, KS-ing is bad.



What you said had nothing to do with what I even mentioned aside from flat out ignoring advice. Whatever, your character.

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The only difference is base LUK would cap at 999 instead of 997. The remainder points would go towards 23 DEX instead of 25 DEX. Not a big difference at all.

Oh wow my calculation was way off. I thought it was a 13 point difference. Never mind then.

Well I don't know man.

I guess to close my argument... If you wanna LOOK super pro, from the lvls of 50-70.... Make a dexless UA sin...

If you want to be "pro".... Make a UA corsair.

We already knew that.

Wish me luck in potential-ing all of my set...

My plan is.... If I pop the first set.... ima start adding dex.... and scroll for dex.... and try to potential the next set (lvl 80 set)... if that fails.... I go low-dex till I can wear the lion heart set.... and if that set fails.... I think I can get another.

Im in it to win it.... And... Like... assuming I don't die or lose interest in maple (or like maple closing OR like... WWIII)
I should have time to perfect this UA....

And in the end..... He'll be a lvl 200 sin with lvl 5 vampire...

As Charley Sheen would say.... "Win".

EDIT - @ RayQuaza (The mod man... I can't spell his name.... I cant spell normal stuff right)

Uh.... I think the very nature of maple, would lead one to jump onto the edge of a platform, befor they hit the middle... Yes certain maps are different, but the general physics of the game says: "You usually jump onto the edge of a platform".

It was the same in Mario 1 dude..... Mario can only jump so far...

Edit 2.... I misspelled.