8.9 Magnitude Earthquake Hits Japan + Tsunami and Alerts

And 55C is 131F. I dont think Humans are safe breathing that. At least not for long periods of time.

Anyway, its a pain in the ass when sources are conflicting with eachother. Its probably because each source has an agenda and bias (or if you want to take the idealistic view point, maybe some sources only have part of the story).

Sorry, I meant the situation is breathable. And of course there are no give-all, tell-all sources. I'm just going by the official situations and forming my own conjectures, as they are as good as anyone's. From the wordings of the positive sources themselves, they don't sound very optimistic about the situations, and that's all I need to know that the situation is bad, not the fear mongering bunch.

And yes, there is no mentioning about the absolute levels of water inside the reactors, but I'm making a few assumptions here:
- Officials claimed that the ponds still have at least some water left from visual inspections from those lolhelicopters.
- The spraying missions included waiting for the steam to dissipate before resuming spraying water. It suggests that there is a correlation between spraying water and having that water boiled to steam, in other words: effectively delivering the water to the ponds.

Just because the news came from fox doesnt automatically mean it is false. Same for if it comes from MSNBC or CNN. All have their own agendas.

I personally think FoxNews has exclusively earned that title. Anything coming from their mouth is just garbage. Even if two news agencies have the same source, I'd prefer to at least hear what the other source have to say.

Fox is probably the best example here. Heck, the link you provided from Fox News kind of proves that, lol

Just because the news came from fox doesnt automatically mean it is false. Same for if it comes from MSNBC or CNN. All have their own agendas.
I believe you are using Ad Hominem here, and if you looked, they did cite their source (unlike when Ann decided to say "many scientists". Got to love that bandwagon approach).

Edit: just to restate it, some offcials are apparently breaking out in tears and claiming it was not safe at all.

The boss of the company behind the devastated Japanese nuclear reactor today broke down in tears - as his country finally acknowledged the radiation spewing from the over-heating reactors and fuel rods was enough to kill some citizens

Just because the news came from fox doesnt automatically mean it is false. Same for if it comes from MSNBC or CNN. All have their own agendas.
I believe you are using Ad Hominem here, and if you looked, they did cite their source (unlike when Ann decided to say "many scientists". Got to love that bandwagon approach).

Edit: just to restate it, some offcials are apparently breaking out in tears and claiming it was not safe at all.

My point is that Fox sometimes make remarks that are way off of what the truth really is. The Chernobyl comment was somewhat off (the truth is that the design of the Japan nuclear reactors is much safer than the Chernobyl one; no need to seal it up in a concrete cofffin if it goes to worse). But they've made worse comments on news stories which got them ridiculed. I'm sure you can find quite a few examples of that.

And you well know that Fox is biased in favor for those who are on the right. They express it too, and at times its negative publicity for them.

Anyways, enough digression about Fox News; I'm going to get back on topic.

My point is that Fox sometimes make remarks that are way off of what the truth really is. The Chernobyl comment was somewhat off (the truth is that the design of the Japan nuclear reactors is much safer than the Chernobyl one; no need to seal it up in a concrete cofffin if it goes to worse). But they've made worse comments on news stories which got them ridiculed. I'm sure you can find quite a few examples of that.

Actually, the 40 years worth of used fuel rods could interestingly be worse than chernobyl.
http://my.firedoglake.com/kirkmurphy/201...-steroids/
Something mentioned earlier in the topic.

And you well know that Fox is biased in favor for those who are on the right. They express it too, and at times its negative publicity for them.

Anyways, enough digression about Fox News; I'm going to get back on topic.

Did you know GE, owner of MSNBC donated about 1.2million to Bush's campaign? There are interesting levels of bias everywhere.
And I should note that Mr. Maddow had a guest that stated that the whole issue in Japan was a major disaster. Maybe I better dig that up too.

[video=youtube;sjdgHqY2K-4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sjdgHqY2K-4[/video]

Seems like Japan has allowed IAEA to jump in, they should have more detailed information that Japanese officials hold (should they have withheld any priorly).

Anyway, this slide has some info about gammy-dose rates at a selected few populated areas. All figures are under 2 microsieverts per hour at peak points, and remain around and under 0.2 microsieverts as of March 17.

About this:

Actually, the 40 years worth of used fuel rods could interestingly be worse than chernobyl.
http://my.firedoglake.com/kirkmurphy/201...-steroids/
Something mentioned earlier in the topic.

1/ ((3,450 * 6) + 6,291) * 63 = 1,700,433; not over 600,000
Sometimes it makes me wonder what these authors make of us, idiots? Or maybe geniuses -if some hidden factors make the number actually 600,000 and we have to automatically know that by ourselves.

2/ We don't have to worry about 30% of that fuel load:

On 18 March 2011, Graham Andrew, Special Adviser to the IAEA Director General on Scientific and Technical Affairs, briefed both Member States and the media on the current status of nuclear safety in Japan. His opening remarks, which he delivered at 14:00 UTC at the IAEA headquarters in Vienna, are provided below:
...
No problems have been reported at the common spent fuel pool. The spent fuel in the pool is fully covered by water.

Fox likes sucking the right nut; most other news stations like sucking the left. The news is biased; politics are biased; and it's either extremist in either direction that gives the reputation of the stereotypical right/left wing politician.

Anyway, enough talking about bias media. Let's stick to the facts.

Radiation detected over the pacific.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...TopStories

Also in that article:

At Fukushima City, 60 miles from the plant, the recorded amount of radiation on Thursday was 20 microsieverts per hour, a level that is roughly 1,000 times higher than in Japanese cities far from the plant. Still, scientists say it isn't enough to cause long-term health effects.

Officials at Fukushima City also said that they found iodine, cesium-135 and cesium-137 in drinking water, at about one-quarter the levels that would make the water unfit to drink.

And for those that like a visual:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js...GMT09%3A52


Edit:
1,700,433 > 600,000
Just under 3 times. How can you say about 1.7 million is not over 600 thousand?

Edit:
1,700,433 > 600,000
Just under 3 times. How can you say about 1.7 million is not over 600 thousand?

How do you say over 600 thousand is 1.7 million?

How do say over 600 thousand is 1.7 million?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. The only problem I see is that their "over 600,000" estimate is much lower than your 1.7million estimate.
And for the other statement, even with 30% not being a problem, you still have a large 70% to be concerned aobut.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. The only problem I see is that their "over 600,000" estimate is much lower than your 1.7million estimate.
And for the other statement, even with 30% not being a problem, you still have a large 70% to be concerned aobut.

I'm saying exactly that. How do you say over 600,000 is 1.7 million? Surely you can say that "over 600,000" accounts for all figures at or above 600,000, but HOW do you get 1.7million from 600,000? In what way are the two numbers correlated? Unless there is a link here, I feel inclined to believe that they don't know what they pineapple they were writing about, even basic Maths.

And for the other statement, even with 30% not being a problem, you still have a large 70% to be concerned aobut.

And that's exactly why I had to be hopeful about it right here:

And yes, there is no mentioning about the absolute levels of water inside the reactors, but I'm making a few assumptions here:
- Officials claimed that the ponds still have at least some water left from visual inspections from those lolhelicopters.
- The spraying missions included waiting for the steam to dissipate before resuming spraying water. It suggests that there is a correlation between spraying water and having that water boiled to steam, in other words: effectively delivering the water to the ponds.

I'm saying exactly that. How do you say over 600,000 is 1.7 million? Surely you can say that "over 600,000" accounts for all figures at or above 600,000, but HOW do you get 1.7million from 600,000? In what way are the two numbers correlated? Unless there is a link here, I feel inclined to believe that they don't know what they pineapple they were writing about, even basic Maths.



And that's exactly why I had to be hopeful about it right here:

Well, first 1.7 mill is a number over 600thousand. That we cannot dispute (unless you want to claim the laws of mathematics wrong) and this means the over 600thousand statement is true.
The problem though, is where 600thousand came from when you got 1.7million.
If you where to exclude the common pool (as it is in a seperate building) and exclude half of the 6 pools (dont know why you would...), you would get about 652thousand (which would be reasonable to say over 600thousand). Although, I cant fully explain the number.
Perhaps it would be best if you posted a comment asking why they came up with 600thousand and you came up with 1.7million. My guess is that they may have acciently omitted some data.

Geez, captain obvious. Let me tell you something, the statement "over 600k" is NOT true. It is true in a mathematical sense, but we are not finding an unknown that satisfies a function here. We are talking about news report, facts. You either claim something, or shut the pineapple up, there's no place for "either this or anything larger than it". No, it does not work that way. I can spit out such nonsense too: "There will be over 1000 dead victims from this disaster." See? It offers no insight and is nothing more than garbage.

Their concern IS valid, however, and that's why I bother at all to alleviate the tension of the concern to 70%. I just have a problem with their 600k claim and your effort in blindly backing it up, by math too, goddamn.

Geez, captain obvious. Let me tell you something, the statement "over 600k" is NOT true. It is true in a mathematical sense, but we are not finding an unknown that satisfies a function here. We are talking about news report, facts. You either claim something, or shut the pineapple up, there's no place for "either this or anything larger than it". No, it does not work that way. I can spit out such nonsense too: "There will be over 1000 dead victims from this disaster." See? It offers no insight and is nothing more than garbage.

Their concern IS valid, however, and that's why I bother at all to alleviate the tension of the concern to 70%. I just have a problem with their 600k claim and your effort in blindly backing it up, by math too, goddamn.

And I simply have a problem with your original statement.

((3,450 * 6) + 6,291) * 63 = 1,700,433; not over 600,000

Which... doesnt make a lot of sense and is self contradictory.

Anyway, are we going to peach over something minor neither of us have a lot of information about (or can explain), or can we get back to the issue at hand?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ds-newsxml

However, footage suggested much of the 2,000 gallons of water missed its target.
Later, six fire engines and a water cannon tried to spray the building with 9,000 gallons of water from high pressure hoses. However, radiation levels within the plant rose from 3,700 millisieverts to 4,000 millisieverts an hour immediately afterwards.
People exposed to such doses will suffer radiation sickness and many will die. Today Tokyo Electric Power, which owns the plant, will try to restart the reactor's cooling systems after workers connected a half mile long power cable from the national grid to Reactor 2.
Spokesman Teruaki Kobayashi said: 'This is the first step towards recovery.'
He added: 'We are doing all we can as we pray for the situation to improve.'
Last night 14,000 were confirmed dead or missing in Japan and 492,000 are homeless. There are 850,000 households in the north of the main island without electricity in freezing temperatures.

Wow, 3700 millisieverts? Are you sure you don't need to double-check that source? I'm pretty sure we haven't heard anything about radiation anywhere rising TO 3700 in the first place, unless I've missed something in the last hour, I'll be back after I see if I can dig up something.

Half the population starts dying at 2500 millisieverts/hr, 4000 would assure a 99% death rate on the spot.

Wow, 3700 millisieverts? Are you sure you don't need to double-check that source? I'm pretty sure we haven't heard anything about radiation anywhere rising TO 3700 in the first place, unless I've missed something in the last hour, I'll be back after I see if I can dig up something.

Half the population starts dying at 2500 sieverts/hr, 4000 would assure a 99% death rate on the spot.

Its quite possible because those are measurements only within the plant. Most measurements I've seen are for outside the plant.
And such high numbers would explain why we have this picture and why workers cant get near the plant:

Overwhelmed: Tokyo Electric Power Company Managing Director Akio Komiri cries as he leaves after a press conference in Fukushima

edit: just to add one last claim

Nuclear experts have been saying for days that Japan was underplaying the crisis' severity.

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsun...ate01.html
from what i can see, this is the most reliable source that updates regularly about the nuclear situation.

Aside from the whole food contamination scare going on, this is the updated conditions of the reactors:
- Hyper Rescue team came and pineappleed the pomegranate out of Unit 3. Chief cabinet secretary Yukiyo Edano said it had been stabilized, though further spraying continues to be potentially necessary.
- A system to remove residual heat in Unit 5 and 6 has been recovered and currently moving the heat to the sea in conjunction with two Diesel generators pumping water into the ponds. Results remain to be seen, current temperatures: 60 Celsius. They have also opened 3 holes on each roof to avoid hydrogen build-up and consequent explosion on these two units.

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Fue...03111.html

And lol, made me chuckle.

WASHINGTON—Responding to the ongoing nuclear crisis in Japan, officials from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission sought Thursday to reassure nervous Americans that U.S. reactors were 100 percent safe and posed absolutely no threat to the public health as long as no unforeseeable system failure or sudden accident were to occur. "With the advanced safeguards we have in place, the nuclear facilities in this country could never, ever become a danger like those in Japan, unless our generators malfunctioned in an unexpected yet catastrophic manner, causing the fuel rods to melt down," said NRC chairman Gregory Jaczko, insisting that nuclear power remained a clean, harmless energy source that could only lead to disaster if events were to unfold in the exact same way they did in Japan, or in a number of other terrifying and totally plausible scenarios that have taken place since the 1950s. "When you consider all of our backup cooling processes, containment vessels, and contingency plans, you realize that, barring the fact that all of those safety measures could be wiped away in an instant by a natural disaster or electrical error, our reactors are indestructible." Jaczko added that U.S. nuclear power plants were also completely guarded against any and all terrorist attacks, except those no one could have predicted.

^
That quote is hilarious. 100% safe except for unseen circumstances? Like, I dunno, an 8.9 scale earthquake?
And protected except for against unforeseen terrorist attacks! So remember guys, its all cool as long as the terrorists give us a call beforehand to announce they're attacking our nuclear power plants.

OH GEE, I haven't been keeping with all the news from Japan. People were talking about it in Prague, but I didn't know how serious it was until I came back to Paris to read up on some of what's been going on.
I'm sad for all japanese people, they are so unlucky with living on top of a natural disaster and yet they are just so awesome.

^
That quote is hilarious. 100% safe except for unseen circumstances? Like, I dunno, an 8.9 scale earthquake?
And protected except for against unforeseen terrorist attacks! So remember guys, its all cool as long as the terrorists give us a call beforehand to announce they're attacking our nuclear power plants.

When you consider all of our backup cooling processes, containment vessels, and contingency plans, you realize that, barring the fact that all of those safety measures could be wiped away in an instant by a natural disaster or electrical error, our reactors are indestructible."

The humor is quite dark here.

Anyway, F'UCK YEAH JAPAN moment.

Temperatures in the fuel ponds in Units 5 & 6 have been brought down from 60 Celsius to around 30. It is said to be under perfect conditions at 25 Celsius.
This was achieved with the recovery of the residual heat removal system in those two units.

Also, calling bullpomegranate on the earlier 4000 millisieverts measurements.

An extended operation to refill the fuel pond took place at unit 3, with the Hyper Rescue crew spraying for over 13 hours. Radiation levels 500 metres north of the reactor showed a decrease from 3.44 millisieverts per hour to 2.75 millisieverts per hour, indicating a measure of success in refilling the pond.

And this, probably over-due a statement, however true it might be.

Despite contradictory comments by the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission to US politicians and media, most observers in nuclear industry and regulation consider the measures taken by Japanese authorities to be prudent.

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Sta...03111.html

Common pool:

In addition to pools in each of the plant's reactor buildings, there is another facility -- the Common Use Spent Fuel Pool -- where spent fuel is stored after cooling at least 18 months in the reactor buildings. This fuel is much cooler than the assemblies stored in the reactor buildings. Japanese authorities have confirmed that fuel assemblies there are fully covered by water, and the temperature was 57 ˚C as of 20 March, 00:00 UTC.

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsun...ate01.html