[Draft] Guide for the DEXless Sin (Scrolled for LUK!)

Updating some more. Should I add a motivation section?

EDIT: pineapple. pineapple pineapple pineappleity pineapple. I wrote up a whole new section, put it tons of pictures, etc. Then accidentally closed the tab. Goodbye goodness.

Did:
-Added pictures for Equips guide

To do:

-Compare assassins to other classes in terms of damage
-Better FAQs/pros and cons
-Fix Build A for third job
-more calculations
-Add more pictures?

-Color your text to make it prettier?

Uh....
"Showdown" = Taunt now

Things that will never happen: A Choas scrolled Facestomper/Pink Gaia Cape/Glove.

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and



I think Ive made my point

Zakum is one of the two major major bosses of GMS today. After doing the chain of quests/stages, you can enter Zakum's Altar with a party. I'm not sure how the runs go, but I believe you start of running to the right side. Someone will drop and Eye of Fire on the altar. Zakum will be summoned and you kill away. First, kill his arms on the right side. Run over to the left side (never Flash Jump in here) and kill the rest of the arms. Some people prefer the leave the arm right below the top left arm for a bit. This arm just curses you, so you can go AFK to take a potty break. When ready, you'll kill the final arm. Then you can start hurting Zakum's body. His body has 3 forms. First form has a (I believe) green HP bar. After the first form, a second will appear, slightly more cracked than the first. This has a yellow HP bar. Finally, the final form with a red HP bar will appear. After that, you've killed him! Zakum Helmets are sold to players for around 50m and his drops are worth a pretty penny too. You will get a share of the profit made from his drops. It's best to go with people you know so you don't get scammed.

• Its not really a chain of quests, its only two
  
• Most smart squads will start on the left side and kill the curse arm, so the attacking party Bishop can Gen arms. Then go right side and kill the healing arm (work bottom to top) go back over to left side and kill top arm. Save the bottom right arm til everyone alt tabs. Come back and finish the Rock off
  
• Drops are crap. The skillbooks he drops are worthless, and he hardly drops equips

First of all, it does not give you increased speed, it adds a whole 20 seconds to max booster. Also, you need those points in Shadow Meso to unlock a different skill, I believe. Third and finally, someone suggested a better hermit build which I will add in as another option and edit the original.

Wrrrrroooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggg. I dont have a single point in Shadow Meso, yet I have access to every Thief / Assassin / Hermit / Nightlord skill in the game (except Double Stab and Shadow Meso).

Why is an Assassin telling people how to make a Hermit / Nightlord?

Maxed Booster synches with maxed Haste, which means you can put them on a macro together (as they run out at the same time)

Most of the content in here is irrelevant to being a dexless sin and more to do with being a sin in general. If you want to write a guide for dexless sins, you don't really need to make a section for skill builds and training spots, unless they are for some reason different than what other sins would train on.

[SIZE="7"]AGREED[/SIZE]

Seriously, its filler.....its all filler.

Erm, yeah. Legal crap first. If you wanna take my guide and post it somewhere else, PM me for
permission and wait until I say yes or no. And if I say you can put it somewhere, be sure to give me credit.

Give you credit for what? Collecting info from other people and sites? I dont even get it.....you took almost more than half your guide from other peple and places. Hell I could take builds and comments from tons of people, put it together and credit them, and call it a guide. This isnt a guide, its a collection of info from TONS of different people

• Skill lists are from Hidden-Street.net
  
• Skill builds.... same as being any kind of Sin. What does it have to do with being dexless?
  
• Bossing Section.... most of the correct info was from people who corrected you. And again, it has nothing to do with being dexless?
  
• Pros and Cons.....same for any Sin, what does it have to do with being dexless?
  
• Damage Calcs... nothing new there, maybe post why dexless > normal dex? Show evidence?
  
• Nightlord skillbook locations and builds......once again, not even yours. And once again, what does it have to do with being dexless?

So take out all that crap that you didnt even do, and all the stuff that doesnt have to do with being dexless....and you are left with less than half of what you have now

Funny how my Infighter guide, which is one of the most complete Infighter guides that has been made thus far (compared to SP.net, Basil, SW.net, MapleTip.com, etc etc you get my point), wasnt accepted....but this was.....hmmmmm

uh......whoops

so i just read your section about bosses and you need a lot of work on that. different classes are need to apply different techniques to killing papulatus. pap solo is generally done only with mid to high level 4th jobbers or later 3rd jobber with apples. you cant just say "pin it to wall and mindlessly kill" because you'll surely die. NLs make use of dark sight for 2nd body, flash jump for 4k bombs if they dont have enough hp, etc.

zakum--saying "im not sure how zakum works" discredits you. if people know you dont know what youre talking about, why would they listen to you? whats worse is that you go on to say "i think you do it like this...". at that point, you are misinforming people.

you should either research how particular bosses work, or remove that boss section completely. because "how to kill boss" is not very relevant to dex and star thieves.

so i just read your section about bosses and you need a lot of work on that. different classes are need to apply different techniques to killing papulatus. pap solo is generally done only with mid to high level 4th jobbers or later 3rd jobber with apples. you cant just say "pin it to wall and mindlessly kill" because you'll surely die. NLs make use of dark sight for 2nd body, flash jump for 4k bombs if they dont have enough hp, etc.

zakum--saying "im not sure how zakum works" discredits you. if people know you dont know what youre talking about, why would they listen to you? whats worse is that you go on to say "i think you do it like this...". at that point, you are misinforming people.

you should either research how particular bosses work, or remove that boss section completely. because "how to kill boss" is not very relevant to dex and star thieves.

Part of my point I made above, half of this stuff has nothing to do with being dexless. And an Assassin is giving advice on bossing and Hermit / Nightlord skills? He probably hasnt even gone to any of these bosses, much less on a Hermit / Nightlord

just for your info dexless can't viking because they can't hit them until the mid 80's.

I wasnt dexless. Just pointed out my training areas back then, and I am comparing that to now.

I don't gauge how effective my attack is by dmg, but by how many hits it takes to kill an enemy. Do you really think 1% dmg is going to turn a monster that was a 2hko into a 1hko? I found that the best thing lvl 21 avenger did was bring stability to those monters that you almost 1hko. The avenger adds enough umph to get over the hump and make a consistent 1hko. An extra 1 or 2 % on that attack isn't going to make any difference.

It depends on where you're training. I've seen 7x does 1-2hko at voodoo IIRC, and IMO, the extra 1-2% gives you more 1hko chances. By the time you had 21 avenger, you would've already maxed out SP...

Maybe you didn't use Avenger much, but then again, how long were you in your 70's? I was lvl 7x for along long time. I found many places to use it. I even used it on voodoo/hoodoo. Why did I use it there? When they spawn you can shoot one avenger and it aggroes all 4 voodoo or hoodoo, and they start to slowly walk toward you. You can then just sit there and blast away. Much less running and more efficient killing.

On the contrary, I use avenger alot more than you think. I used to train at places like DT, viking, where avenger helps heap in mob gathering. But nowaday, there're better training grounds.

From what I can gather is you never used 1 avenger going through your 7x levels so you don't know how useful it could have been to you. It was a nice skill to have and was well worth the 1% or 2% less dmg that l7 did.

You're assuming too much. Either way, there's no right or wrong, it came down to personal preferences. But yeah, I got 13 FJs before I got SP, simply because I was bored with MS and I wanted to hunt bosses (MM and Jr Rog), so yeah, I walk around with 5 avengers first. If you like avenger that much, go for it, or if you're into damage, which is probably the reason why you're building a dexless sin in the first place, then go for max SP. There's no right or wrong.

There's no right or wrong.

But there is efficent and being inefficent. Some people dont just "screw around in MS and boss" like you did. Some want to hit 120 asap. Speaking from experience, FJ and Avenger should in no way take priority over getting a 3minute Shadow Partner. Once you get that 180 second SP, get a decnt FJ for mobility and Avenger for mobbing

And I just looked at your training spots for 70~80. Newties? Are you kidding me? The sheer level difference would kill your damage.

Once you get that 180 second SP, get a decnt FJ for mobility and Avenger for mobbing

you shouldnt even do that. its like crusader with their level 21(?) combo. just because they first get 5 orbs, doesnt mean damage is very good. 1 avenger or 5 avenger and 1 FJ is fine but no more in those two skills until sp is maxed. at 7x, im sure you still miss newties lol.

But there is efficent and being inefficent. Some people dont just "screw around in MS and boss" like you did. Some want to hit 120 asap. Speaking from experience, FJ and Avenger should in no way take priority over getting a 3minute Shadow Partner. Once you get that 180 second SP, get a decnt FJ for mobility and Avenger for mobbing

If you're going to quote me, at least quote my points I tried to make. We were talking about 1 avenger max SP vs max SP 1 avenger. You quoted an insignificant reply to an insignificant point, and yet missed out on the whole discussion between myself and Roxstarz, which made your reply pretty off.

And I just looked at your training spots for 70~80. Newties? Are you kidding me? The sheer level difference would kill your damage.

I am not the topic starter, so if you're referring to his point, then make it clear and separate. Otherwise, quote the section I said so.

If you're going to quote me, at least quote my points I tried to make. We were talking about 1 avenger max SP vs max SP 1 avenger. You quoted an insignificant reply to an insignificant point, and yet missed out on the whole discussion between myself and Roxstarz, which made your reply pretty off.

I said speaking from experience. I was referring to my own time as a Hermit. Everyone has their own way. I was in no way referring to your guys' discussion. I was simply stating what I did and what worked for me

I am not the topic starter, so if you're referring to his point, then make it clear and separate. Otherwise, quote the section I said so.

Did you post training areas for 70 to 80? No you didnt. If you cant figure out that I was referring to the topic starter, then there is no hope for you

Uh....
"Showdown" = Taunt now

Okay, thank you for that information. I will update when I get back.

 Spoiler

and



and



I think Ive made my point

"Never happen" was an exaggeration. It's very unlikely the average person, even with 2b + fundings will be able to create/afford one of those. If it was really going to "never happen", I wouldn't have put it in. I guess it was silly of me to say Never going to happen, maybe I will change that.

• Its not really a chain of quests, its only two
  
• Most smart squads will start on the left side and kill the curse arm, so the attacking party Bishop can Gen arms. Then go right side and kill the healing arm (work bottom to top) go back over to left side and kill top arm. Save the bottom right arm til everyone alt tabs. Come back and finish the Rock off
  
• Drops are crap. The skillbooks he drops are worthless, and he hardly drops equips

Thanks for the information, again. I'll update that as well. But I just wanted to note that in most guilds I see and most people I talk to, you still get a decent amount of pay for Zakuming. If I'm not mistaken, members of KoM and other Zakuming guilds these days (referring to Scania at least) are getting upwards of 75m per run. For less than half an hour of work, that isn't bad.


Wrrrrroooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggg. I dont have a single point in Shadow Meso, yet I have access to every Thief / Assassin / Hermit / Nightlord skill in the game (except Double Stab and Shadow Meso).

Why is an Assassin telling people how to make a Hermit / Nightlord?

Maxed Booster synches with maxed Haste, which means you can put them on a macro together (as they run out at the same time)

Again, thanks for the info. The guide isn't great, I understand that, but by the time I fix it all up maybe someone will be helped from it.

On another note, my main is an assassin. It doesn't mean I haven't played a hermit/night lord, so stop assuming. In fact, I have experienced a dexless Night Lord, although I have only ever trained a dexless up to level 110ish, which explains my lack of knowledge of Night Lord skills. (I ended up trying all other classes before coming back to assassins, by which time I'd relealized my character was horrible and remade it.)

[SIZE="7"]AGREED[/SIZE]

Seriously, its filler.....its all filler.

A dexless sin is still a sin. If it was only about being dexless, this guide would consist of an equips guide, and a short, simple AP allocation section. Maybe some calculations, and maybe a training places guide.

Give you credit for what? Collecting info from other people and sites? I dont even get it.....you took almost more than half your guide from other peple and places. Hell I could take builds and comments from tons of people, put it together and credit them, and call it a guide. This isnt a guide, its a collection of info from TONS of different people

• Skill lists are from Hidden-Street.net
  
• Skill builds.... same as being any kind of Sin. What does it have to do with being dexless?
  
• Bossing Section.... most of the correct info was from people who corrected you. And again, it has nothing to do with being dexless?
  
• Pros and Cons.....same for any Sin, what does it have to do with being dexless?
  
• Damage Calcs... nothing new there, maybe post why dexless > normal dex? Show evidence?
  
• Nightlord skillbook locations and builds......once again, not even yours. And once again, what does it have to do with being dexless?

So take out all that crap that you didnt even do, and all the stuff that doesnt have to do with being dexless....and you are left with less than half of what you have now

It is a guide. Guides GUIDE you. This may not guide people very well yet, but it's still a guide. Not to mention, not everything was taken from the places you listed. Especially the bossing section. If I am correct, only ONE SECTION had info taken from someone else. Soon to be two, thanks for the Zakum information. Even then, I still wrote up the dang thing. Now, let's look at your infighter guide, shall we? I see you took information from people. So, take out everything that you learned from another source, like you told me to, and you're left with basically nothing, as am I. Everyone learns from something. Especially infighters, any person who plays only GMS has no experience with an infighter, so they couldn't have just magically learned all the skills and such without looking them up. I find some of your "flames" to be quite hypocritical.

Funny how my Infighter guide, which is one of the most complete Infighter guides that has been made thus far (compared to SP.net, Basil, SW.net, MapleTip.com, etc etc you get my point), wasnt accepted....but this was.....hmmmmm

Okay, you're infighter guide is so awesome. Wahoo. So you come to the worst guide on SP and decide to flame it for everything that it has wrong? I don't mind you giving me the information. What I mind is you using offensive/foul language to tell me things that you could have said otherwise. Let's take an example. "Why is an Assassin telling people how to make a Hermit / Nightlord?" Okay, so that wasn't so hurtful. But it was assuming and accusing. You could have simply said "Maybe you should get a little more experience with Night Lords/Hermits before making a guide."

In short, thanks for the information, but ease up on the anger in the comments. O_o

I'm out tonight, can't work on this. (For people to know, this guide was created not to win the contest but to help people, so I don't care whether or not it's done by the date. Which it will not be.) Just wanted to respond to you, Dae. Answers in the quote....

I wasnt saying that attackers arent paid well, Im responding to when you said "his drops are worth a pretty penny too". They arent. If you are lucky enough to get a Craven or Pinaka, yea then thats alot of mesos right there. But the majority of what he drops is worthless, mainly because Zakum has been made into a business and is killed many times a day.

Attackers are mainly paid off of money from the buyers

Regarding some things on here, I want to say that ...most Zakum drops aren't worth very much, unless you consider 5m on average = a lot, then sure. Cravens are worth ranging from 50m+ to... 220m+, even more possibly, depending on your server.

I wasnt saying that attackers arent paid well, Im responding to when you said "his drops are worth a pretty penny too". They arent. If you are lucky enough to get a Craven or Pinka, yea then thats alot of mesos right there. But the majority of what he drops is worthless, mainly because Zakum has been made into a business and is killed many times a day.

Attackers are mainly paid off of money from the buyers

Oh, well then. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I'll need to change that too then. Thanks.

A dexless sin is still a sin. If it was only about being dexless, this guide would consist of an equips guide, and a short, simple AP allocation section. Maybe some calculations, and maybe a training places guide.

you shouldve titled your guide "guide for the sin" and then talk about "dexless sin" as a subsection because "dexless sin" is a branch of "sin", not the other way around. its not easy to make a guide about dexless sins. you can probably say all you need to say in about 2 paragraphs. ive gave thought to this before i wrote my dex guide which is why i decided to expand it to low/no dex, how to scroll for needed equipment, and how to raise money to be no/low dex.

the important things to note are relevancy, cohesion, and accuracy in both title, topic, and subject. good writing is treated as a work of art, like a song or a painting. including things that arent relevant to a work of writing is like adding a note that throws a song out of beat, or a smudge that ruins a painting.

I said speaking from experience. I was referring to my own time as a Hermit. Everyone has their own way. I was in no way referring to your guys' discussion. I was simply stating what I did and what worked for me

And the point of quoting my sentence is?

Did you post training areas for 70 to 80? No you didnt. If you cant figure out that I was referring to the topic starter, then there is no hope for you

If you cant bother to make your post clear, then dont even try to sound smart covering it. Try reading your post again, and the way you present it, and then perhaps you may learn a thing or two about stating a point and who it was supposed to refer to.

I wasnt dexless. Just pointed out my training areas back then, and I am comparing that to now.

This is a dexless sin guide Just letting you know that Dexless Sins can't hit Vikings at 80. Many people don't know that. That is one of the few times that Dexless Sins lack of accuracy holds them back, not that it really holds them back because Wolf Spiders is a much better place to hunt for Ilbis anyways.

It depends on where you're training. I've seen 7x does 1-2hko at voodoo IIRC, and IMO, the extra 1-2% gives you more 1hko chances. By the time you had 21 avenger, you would've already maxed out SP...

OK, I am not sure what you mean by these comments. I don't understand where 21 avenger and maxed sp comes into play, because I am clearly advocating 1 avenger and max sp.

That is exactly what it is too, your opinion. That extra 1-2% damage doesn't really give you that much extra chance to ohko. Dexless Sins already have enough Juice in their hit that they should be doing enough dmg to almost ohko a voodoo every time. Simply turning on shadow partner should be enough to get over the hump and make a consistent ohko. When you are getting a consistent ohko every time that 1-2% extra dmg won't make a difference. Maybe I need to pull out some math, but I will save that for another rebuttal.

On another note, it took me 6 months to get through the 7x's. It was nice having that extra skill. If I would have found a certain place that didn't need it and grinded constantly until I maxed sp, never went anywhere else, never explored, etc etc, then I can see passing up avenger. But as it is, you can get another skill practically painlessly without waiting 10 more lvls, and that other skill has practical game value even though it doesn't do a ton of dmg at lvl 1. Don't underestimate Avengers ability to go through stuff.

On the contrary, I use avenger alot more than you think. I used to train at places like DT, viking, where avenger helps heap in mob gathering. But nowaday, there're better training grounds.

What lvl are you? Maxed avenger and maxed sp is an awesome skill. I use Avenger all the time in training (except boss hunting). When you can gather a spawn together avenger does more dmg than lucky 7. And if you know how to do it you can hunt for ilbi at Wolf Spider almost exclusively using Avenger.

You're assuming too much. Either way, there's no right or wrong, it came down to personal preferences. But yeah, I got 13 FJs before I got SP, simply because I was bored with MS and I wanted to hunt bosses (MM and Jr Rog), so yeah, I walk around with 5 avengers first. If you like avenger that much, go for it, or if you're into damage, which is probably the reason why you're building a dexless sin in the first place, then go for max SP. There's no right or wrong.

Maybe I am, and your right, it all comes down to personal preference. There are efficient builds and inefficient builds though. All I can do is cringe at your getting 13 fj first. Getting one avenger hardly even affects your dmg at all.

I actually didn't get a dexless sin for the reasons you stated. I didn't know anything about Maple Story two years ago when I started playing and it is kind of the build that I ended up with talking to the friends that got me started playing the game. If you want to know how clueless I was I was almost lvl 30 when I figured out you could jump shoot to avoid punching the enemies....

This is a dexless sin guide

Forgot that (not so) tiny detail, my bad. Nowaday, as stated before, there're much better training grounds than Viking.

OK, I am not sure what you mean by these comments. I don't understand where 21 avenger and maxed sp comes into play, because I am clearly advocating 1 avenger and max sp.

Perhaps it's a mistype from a point you made. You did type 21avenger, but meh, typo I guess.

Maybe I am, and your right, it all comes down to personal preference. There are efficient builds and inefficient builds though. All I can do is cringe at your getting 13 fj first. Getting one avenger hardly even affects your dmg at all.

Let see, I quit for a long long while due to work, hobby and other interests. Then I came back every blue moon messing around for a bit, hence the 5 avenger FJ build. It 's good enough for me to scan all 20 rog channels, then log off. Much later, I got back to it again, training at viking (during the left/right glitch), which avenger is just plain awesome. 5 avenger 21 sp was pretty good at viking then, coz of mobbing. Nowaday, I am hibernating at 105.

I guess it concludes to if the only thing you want is power, get SP first. I find that build suits dexless more.

Perhaps it's a mistype from a point you made. You did type 21avenger, but meh, typo I guess.

Ya, if I typed 21 avenger it would be a typo.

Let see, I quit for a long long while due to work, hobby and other interests. Then I came back every blue moon messing around for a bit, hence the 5 avenger FJ build. It 's good enough for me to scan all 20 rog channels, then log off. Much later, I got back to it again, training at viking (during the left/right glitch), which avenger is just plain awesome. 5 avenger 21 sp was pretty good at viking then, coz of mobbing. Nowaday, I am hibernating at 105.

I guess it concludes to if the only thing you want is power, get SP first. I find that build suits dexless more.

I will readily admit that max flash jump is a great skill. But more important than "having more power" is effective training. Getting Shadow Partner to 21 (three min), and then max shadow partner is the skill that will allow any Hermit to attack the higher lvl monsters. Who wants to sit at hoodoo/voodoo for 5 more lvls than they have to? Once you got decent shadow partner you can attack the monsters that give 1200 and 1300 xp. The "Power build' has its advantages, and I grant the "twink around" build has its advantages too, but it will be longer to lvl if you choose the "twink around" build.