Yet another "watk vs stat" question...

I seen a lot about this discussed, but I would like to get a better understanding about it.

So... is it safe to say, in the end, watk will always be better than your primary stat? The only question I have is when does your primary stat become more powerful than watk (this is assuming you hit a certain %stat on your gear).

It depends on balance.

If you have a ton of weapon attack gear, but not as much primary stat, your weapon attack will be worth a lot less. If you have a ton of primary stat, your weapon attack becomes worth more.

I guess weapon attack would only be out-weighed by a single primary stat point if there's too much of an imbalance.

Damage formulas, in general, are something like
w.atk * (4*primary + secondary) * multiplier

The only time primary stat is better than w.atk is if you have more w.atk than primary stat (say for example 180 total w.atk to 160 total str)

When you add percent gear, it looks like
w.atk * 4 * %primary * primary
This doesn't change the w.atk:primary stat ratio a single bit. It does introduce new ratios - w.atk vs. %stat, and %stat vs. stat.

Damage formulas, in general, are something like
w.atk * (4*primary + secondary) * multiplier

Er... How much is the multiplier variable?

The only time primary stat is better than w.atk is if you have more w.atk than primary stat (say for example 180 total w.atk to 160 total str)

In in other words, almost never? When you say more watk than your primary stat, do you mean your total primary stat after %stat potentials? I have 1575 Luk, and 230 total watk (excluding energizer drink, but including %atk potential). Just thinking about have more watk then primary stat is unreachable.

So for example, judging by my total luk... 10 watk is better than say 5% luk potential? Or better yet, how much %luk potential will it take to be more beneficial than the 10 watk?

Also, do atk potions get effected by %attack potentials, and do %stat potentials effect your total luk or just base?

No, don't count %stat into your primary stat totals.

And no you're never going to be at a point where primary stat is better than w.atk.

If you want to compare attack to %stat, just compare those two numbers (don't involve any atk% or primary stat, only +atk and +%stat). So with ~220 atk vs. 50% luk for example, 220:150 -> 1%stat = 1.47 atk.

Attack potions are not affected by %attack, and %stat potentials are on total stat (including all +stats and MW)


I am not sure what the multiplier is for throwing stars. It's somewhere between 1 and 2 for every weapon though.

hello mancartia, guess who joined.

but from now on, guess it will be stereo hahaha, i want to ask about something, i keep hearing that %attack doesn't affect attack potions/attack buffs (apples, hex of the beholder, etcetera) however, i did some calculations witht he machlear(6% attack) using said formula for damage, and the only way i could make the formula work was by including the bonus from blood and hex into the 6%attack increase, and a sin using an apple and the same formula also got the same results as me.

question is, is it POSITIVE that %attack doesn't work with these? and should i post my math so that you could tell me if it's wrong?

Usually the decision isn't 1 watt vs 1 STAT though.

It's usually do I get the pac with some % stat or the lvl 90cape with better %stat

There's a nice little way to figure out which one will be better.

Example:
You are deciding which cape is better for you. 11 att 0 dex 10% dex vs 0 att 10 dex 18% dex.

You have to total up everything but not your current cape (pretend you had none)
total att:130
total % dex:0
total dex: 500
^ These have to be done by hand (looking at equips +base dex) not by what's in your stat window. Since that will include % dex in it.



now you do ratios of new att/old att, 100+new % dex/100+old %dex , new dex/old dex
For the pac:
(130+11)/130 * (100+10)/100 * (500+0)/500 = 1.193 (meaning you'll do about 19.3% more damage than before)

For the 18% cape:
130/130 * 118/100 * 510/500 = 1.2036 (meaning you'll do about 20.4% more damage than before)


Edit: Guess I should also add this in, since it's obvious to me (since I've been doing a TON of calc like these) .... you would also want to compute these same values when your dex reaches 999 (assuming you went low dex. In that case the pac wins by like... .1% (x1.193 PAC vs x1.192 18% cape)

The more of something you have, the less valuable each of them becomes (as compared to A) the rest; B) Other contributive factors). As you level up, your primary stats approach maximum, while one can only have so many WATK points (around 200 in total?).
Thusly, the higher leveled you are (versus the same WATK gears you have), the less contributive each primaryStat is to your total dmg as opposed to each WATK.

To whoever was doing calculations for watk%, consider these two:
- PDR
- The datedness of information

So since I'm a Pure Str DW, My 2h sword will be much stronger than my %str shield with 10 str and a 1h 95 att sword?

comparing across weapon types is always a bit more complicated due to weapon speeds

I actually have a better question instead. What is better 1 atk or 1% primary stat?

It depends on your equips and stats... I gave you the formula for comparing:


~~
newstat and old stat have to be calculated with the % stat in them, so you have to do this by hand. Your base stats +your equips' stats.


(newatt/old att) * (newstat/old stat) * (100+new stat%)/(100+old stat%)

if you have 150 att, 700 stat, and 20% stat potential...

1 att:

151/150 * 700/700 * 120%/120% =1.0066666....

1% stat

150/150 * 700/700 * 121%/120% =1.008333

1% stat wins in this case... it'll lose in other cases... once again... it DEPENDS

but you can do these calcs on your own.

Or just give me your base stats +stats from equips (not counting % stat)

So since I'm a Pure Str DW, My 2h sword will be much stronger than my %str shield with 10 str and a 1h 95 att sword?

Um... no. It all depends on your weapon speed and how much of a stat difference the two sets have.

If you have a 140 attack Devil's Sunrise and pit it against a 100 attack Sparta and a shield with some %STR, then the two-handed sword will be stronger, because of the huge weapon attack bonus. Now, if you were to use a 120 attack Red Katana against a 130 attack Devil's Sunrise and you had a % STR shield to go with it, the Red Katana would dominate because of the weapon attack speed change alone.

As far as different weapons goes, there's more to think about than just miniscule attack or primary stat differences. Of course, this doesn't hold true for all classes, like the ones who have the exact same weapon speeds throughout the game.

Um... no. It all depends on your weapon speed and how much of a stat difference the two sets have.

If you have a 140 attack Devil's Sunrise and pit it against a 100 attack Sparta and a shield with some %STR, then the two-handed sword will be stronger, because of the huge weapon attack bonus. Now, if you were to use a 120 attack Red Katana against a 130 attack Devil's Sunrise and you had a % STR shield to go with it, the Red Katana would dominate because of the weapon attack speed change alone.

As far as different weapons goes, there's more to think about than just miniscule attack or primary stat differences. Of course, this doesn't hold true for all classes, like the ones who have the exact same weapon speeds throughout the game.

Only time I would ever do this...