What are we smoking?

I used to believe this, but eventually I came to understand just how ignorant this view truly is.

It isn't a flaw of just MS, or WoW, or Sleepywood, or Basil, or GameFAQs, or 4chan, or whatever other online community you can think of. It's a flaw of the internet. People are stupid. They're downright idiots, and by connecting these people from all over the world, you get a glimpse of what humanity is really like. And believe me, it isn't pretty, nor is it reserved to any one community.

But the internet has some smart people, as I believe you and butterfli proved. It doesn't stop Maple's community from sucking. In my honest opinion, WoW has less idiots than Maple. Compare Basil to WoW fansites. Of course, that's like comparing an empty bag of chips to a full one, but you know what I'm trying to get at </bad metaphor>. Whatever, pointless argument.

[size="1"]And erich should tleast improve his grammar.[/size]

Maple's gameplay (esp. as warriors) is about the level I can handle after I've been doing heavy math homework :> (computational partial differential equations... ridiculously huge matrices, optimization for matrix inversion, taylor expansions to suitable accuracy)

If I didn't like playing, I'd stop. Actually I've slowed down significantly (don't even bother reviving pet or getting NX outfit) but running around beating things up doesn't lose its appeal for me. If I was concerned about leveling up, I wouldn't be a Paladin. But there you go, the appeals of the class outweigh the benefits of being a higher level.



As for Maple vs. WoW, there are a few significant differences
1) GMs... WoW has them. They can fix your hijacked account/items. They can help you if you find a glitch. And they block the idiots.
2) Pay to activate account, keeps out all the scammers and spammers who need to make a new account every week because their old one is too notorious. Plus of course there's an actual penalty for breaking the rules, not a 1 month block and then your 14x hacked DK is 100% available to you.

I see that most people think its a game to socialize but I got hooked into the game because of the better version KMS. I have several korean friends that play the korean version of the game. Personally they always brag about better content and better community but Im stuck playing GMS cause I like the story line and I cant read Korean and I do not know anyone that can provide me with an KSS id. I play GMS cause of language limitations and because it is SOME WHAT CLOSE to the awesome KMS. With that said I intend to learn korean in college so I can play the truly great game thats created by Koreans. Until them I am gonna grind my ass off and try to enjoy as much of the game as possible. Unfortunately my enjoyment is limited by the lack of a nice community which doesnt harrass or KS me and invites me to boss runs.

yay my thread made it into the post =D

jk.

I don't plan on really playing MS much anymore soon. There's a few things in life I need to take care of, and MS is really getting in the way. There is one more goal in MS that I want to take care of before I quit, and thats to get my shadower to lvl 140. After that, MS is going to be pretty pointless.

yay my thread made it into the post =D

jk.

I don't plan on really playing MS much anymore soon. There's a few things in life I need to take care of, and MS is really getting in the way. There is one more goal in MS that I want to take care of before I quit, and thats to get my shadower to lvl 140. After that, MS is going to be pretty pointless.

well, unfortunatly MS isnt interfearing in my life, as im 12. i can see to much addiction running down the line(but I can see MS evolve, I realy hope that we get the same CC20 as KMS. the adult only channel.

i see myself playing untill we have all of past victoria island. or i hit level 200. yea, long 3-5 years >_<

well, unfortunatly MS isnt interfearing in my life, as im 12. i can see to much addiction running down the line(but I can see MS evolve, I realy hope that we get the same CC20 as KMS. the adult only channel.

i see myself playing untill we have all of past victoria island. or i hit level 200. yea, long 3-5 years >_<

Good luck with that, if you plan to get to 200. -rollseyes- Only a very few determined people (that has access to NX) got to 200. I myself, having only played for a year and a half only has:

-Lv 120 Night Lord
-Lv 101 Pole Arm Dragon Knight
-Lv 52 Cleric
-Lv 3X LUKless Cleric
-Lv 2X LUKless Cleric-in-training
-Lv 30 Fighter
-Other miscellanious mules (about 10+)

Addiction can sure take it's tolls on you when it comes to interveining in on your personal life, but that also depends on your age. If you're ..12, you have almost nothing to worry about. Where-as the average High School and/or College-student will, because their grades can suffer as a result of addiction.

Answer me this.. are people addicted to the game itself even though they hate Nexon? Or are they just too accustomed to hanging out with their friends online?

I think that a lot of people keep playing the game because if they quit, they'd feel that their time and money invested into the game would be a waste. Also, they'd have friends they don't want to leave. I personally still enjoy this game and my class because I don't really care whether or not it's a true RPG, and I've never actually had to contact customer service. Since MTS, all my nx so far has come from MTS, so I'm not paying anything to use CS. Unfortunately, I was forced to quit so that I can do better in school :o

Good luck with that, if you plan to get to 200. -rollseyes- Only a very few determined people (that has access to NX) got to 200. I myself, having only played for a year and a half only has:

-Lv 120 Night Lord
-Lv 101 Pole Arm Dragon Knight
-Lv 52 Cleric
-Lv 3X LUKless Cleric
-Lv 2X LUKless Cleric-in-training
-Lv 30 Fighter
-Other miscellanious mules (about 10+)

Addiction can sure take it's tolls on you when it comes to interveining in on your personal life, but that also depends on your age. If you're ..12, you have almost nothing to worry about. Where-as the average High School and/or College-student will, because their grades can suffer as a result of addiction.

Answer me this.. are people addicted to the game itself even though they hate Nexon? Or are they just too accustomed to hanging out with their friends online?

I consider myself addicted to this game even if I sometimes hate Nexon. My guild is inactive, a lot of times my buddies aren't on, yet I still play.

'Course it's much more enjoyable if my buddies are on.

I used to believe this, but eventually I came to understand just how ignorant this view truly is.

It isn't a flaw of just MS, or WoW, or Sleepywood, or Basil, or GameFAQs, or 4chan, or whatever other online community you can think of. It's a flaw of the internet. People are stupid. They're downright idiots, and by connecting these people from all over the world, you get a glimpse of what humanity is really like. And believe me, it isn't pretty, nor is it reserved to any one community.

I gotta agree with this, from what I've seen of WoW, the community is no more mature. Sure, I've met my share of assholes on Maple, but I've met an equally large share of assholes on WoW.

Because


xd


You speak of "quiting" as if it were quitting quitting from some addition like drugs or gambling. In the sense you say me continuing to visit sp after quitting is like going to an alcoholics anonymous after I quit drinking.

But just because you chose to end something or deciding to stop ding something, you don't necessarily have to end it from your life if it was once a big impact on your life. Take high school for instance. We all hated high school when we're in it. We get in trouble, we have authorities, we have tardy sweeps, we have people calling our parents when we ditch school. But if you ask any person who are out of high school, many people will say they miss high school--high school reunions. If you ask college students, many would trade college for high school again any day.

Let's get one thing straight: the internet and its various extensions, such as online games like Maple, IS a culture. Numerous intellectuals in such fields as anthropology, cultural studies, and folklore agree on this, and have expressed interest and encouraged analysis of different aspects of internet culture, such as youtube, facebook, my space, forums, irc chat, and MMO's. I'm not sure if there are any actual studies published in any academic journals, but there is a growing interest in internet culture as a worldwide phenomenon. My point is, if you're conducting an analysis of what modern Maple Story is, then you've got to look at as many contributing aspects to what makes it a culture as you can. It's not just the people who play Maple and therefore make up its community, but it's the company itself, and the rules and practices they create for and impose upon the game which thereby effects the community of players. Otherwise, your analysis comes out biased.

But, then again, this is a public forum, and any Joe Sweatsock can put himself behind a keyboard and spout forth outrageous claims of systematic analysis and theory while presenting no credentials whatsoever, merely in the interest of venting pent-up negativity. Oh wow, everyone is capable of lying on the internet; makes sense why it's not a respected academic source 9 times out of 10...

As for your presentation of articles which call into question such things as if dieting actually works, if people can naturally read minds, and if scientists can harness invisibility matter, these are singular studies published on newsgroups, and skewed by the writer of the article. What I'm saying is, you're not getting all the facts, and the only way to consistantly prove these "discoveries" to be empirical "truth" is to conduct the same study several more times, and recieve the same or similar results. What's more, is that the very nature of any kind of academic study is that when one point of view is expressed and "proves" one thing, another will inevitably arise in opposition to that point of view, "proving" an altogether different "truth". Even further, another academic study may prove both viewpoints are true, and that there is some sort of middle ground between the two. This is what is called discourse, and it gets very complicated, very fast.

But that's just the thing: any truth can be created, but there are often countless ways for an opposing discourse to prove that "truth" wrong in some way, shape, or fashion. This is the nature of deconstructionalism, and I'll leave to your university professors to explain it to you, as reading stuff like Derrida provokes headaches and confusion unless you read him several times over.

Long story short, your world is whatever the hell you choose to construct it as.

Go to school, learn, study, realize things are waaaaay more complicated than you ever thought, and that none of us will ever figure it all out.

ANYWAY, AA meetings are for people who are trying to cope with the fact that they've got an addiction and are seeking group conselling to help them get through it. Even people who are no longer addicted to something continue to go back to AA meetings because they are afraid they may fall back into their addiction if they no longer have that support structure in their life. Visiting a gaming forum and complaining about the game/gaming community you've quit seems like you are turning it into your own personal AA meeting. The question is, are you only here to keep yourself from returning to Maple Story, or have you not actually stopped logging onto the game?

Why are you complaining about a game you don't play anymore, or a community you're not part of anymore?

How do you define "quitting" something if you're still actively participating in it? It's like saying that I quit watching baseball because I hate the sport, but I still talk about it with my friends, and look at the scoreboards to see the standings and stats of the different teams and players. Doesn't that mean that I'm still somehow interested in baseball despite my decision to "quit" it? Isn't quitting defined as to stop, cease, or discontinue a certain activity?

If you're still interested in activities LIKE Maple Story (ie, video games and chat programs or message boards), I'd think that you'd seek out other forms of that kind of electronic entertainment.

And dear god, high school over university? I'd never go back to high school after spending several years in university... high school was a joke - University is so much more stimulating. High school is not the be all and end all: there's so much more to life, there's so much more after high school.

And for any smart ass wondering why I would waste so much of my energy on such a long post, I did it because this is what I wanted to do with my time, and damn whether this was actually a constructive excersize or not - I had fun writing this wall of text. You can choose to read my wall of text if you want to, you're the master of your own choices.

It is still fun to do things even if you have gone passed the purpose of the activity. I could tell you the same thing, couldn't I? Why are you on the internet when there is a big world out there?

Because I'm also doing work on my computer... and it's night time.

Regarding the whole "WHY YOU WHINE ON MS SITES WHEN YOU QUIT" deal, I don't remember ever reading in the SP.net rules saying that you have to be active in MS to post here. Heck, I'm pretty sure that there's a bunch of people who haven't played MS at all, or have quit a LONG time ago. Perhaps they're just curious about the game. Or perhaps they're busy number crunching so they can inform people how to improve those big orange numbers by even small amounts like +1 DPS.

Either way, unless the rules say so, I don't see why people should care if people on an MS fansite don't play MS.

And dear god, high school over university? I'd never go back to high school after spending several years in university... high school was a joke - University is so much more stimulating. High school is not the be all and end all: there's so much more to life, there's so much more after high school.

Unfortunately, I had to agree with the OP about this. The whole HS -> University transition can be quite overwhelming to some. Heck, I even feel overwhelmed by this huge transition.

Some people in this forum need to learn how to analyze an argument.

Butterfli's thesis can be summed up thusly: "Why do people continue to play even though it's a common fact that Nexon's quality is terrible, the game is horribly imbalanced, and when Nexon shows no loyalty to its customers?"

The "why do people continue to play" is the crux of this argument. The facts about Nexon and imbalances are just supporting reasons. A few people got hung up in the supporting reasons and answered the thesis wrong.

Nowhere is Butterfli saying, "I hate this game it sucks" or "I want to quit". Butterfli is asking for a reason why people play DESPITE all of the crap that Nexon gets away with. He's asking about the players, not the argument for why Nexon sucks. Telling him "if you don't like this game gtfo" only means that you didn't read the argument well.

Some people in this forum need to learn how to analyze an argument.

Butterfli's thesis can be summed up thusly: "Why do people continue to play even though it's a common fact that Nexon's quality is terrible, the game is horribly imbalanced, and when Nexon shows no loyalty to its customers?"

The "why do people continue to play" is the crux of this argument. The facts about Nexon and imbalances are just supporting reasons. A few people got hung up in the supporting reasons and answered the thesis wrong.

Nowhere is Butterfli saying, "I hate this game it sucks" or "I want to quit". Butterfli is asking for a reason why people play DESPITE all of the crap that Nexon gets away with. He's asking about the players, not the argument for why Nexon sucks. Telling him "if you don't like this game gtfo" only means that you didn't read the argument well.

I see that most people think its a game to socialize but I got hooked into the game because of the better version KMS. I have several korean friends that play the korean version of the game. Personally they always brag about better content and better community but Im stuck playing GMS cause I like the story line and I cant read Korean and I do not know anyone that can provide me with an KSS id. I play GMS cause of language limitations and because it is SOME WHAT CLOSE to the awesome KMS. With that said I intend to learn korean in college so I can play the truly great game thats created by Koreans. Until them I am gonna grind my ass off and try to enjoy as much of the game as possible. Unfortunately my enjoyment is limited by the lack of a nice community which doesnt harrass or KS me and invites me to boss runs.

I have answered the topic correctly. However on the side-topic, people who leave Maple but stick around the Maple community (Which is why they probably played for so long) COME BACK

Thanks for the spark notes Fiel.

I haven't played for a good two weeks (blame my "super-saiyan" efforts to not play MS, it is a protest). I'm pretty sure people play the game for friends (or for drama & complaining as it is just as attractive). Maple's game play for many is at first enthralling because it (was) something entirely different. You didn't see side scrolling RPGs every day, and on top of it early MS had really nice GMs (PatMK). Now days it seems all they care for is money. They have a crack addicted mob that cannot quit (okay, not all of us, just some). They have them, and their whims are the laws of the land. Perhaps we're smoking addiction? Pure and unfiltered.

People should stop focusing on powerleveling and have FUN with it!
The reason why Maple's earlier days were "more fun", was because people back then did not focus on who was the strongest, who had the better equips, who could level the fastest. It seems like people on the main Maple forums are the ones who complain and angst about the game not being fun anymore, but you see people in-game enjoying themselves.

Stop worrying about if your character is the strongest, and go have fun just PLAYING!

People should stop focusing on powerleveling and have FUN with it!
The reason why Maple's earlier days were "more fun", was because people back then did not focus on who was the strongest, who had the better equips, who could level the fastest. It seems like people on the main Maple forums are the ones who complain and angst about the game not being fun anymore, but you see people in-game enjoying themselves.

Stop worrying about if your character is the strongest, and go have fun just PLAYING!

Right.
*Goes and attempts to have fun.*
*Stereotypical Dexless Assassin changes to my channel*
Sin: Nub I have better equipments .
Me: Don't bother me, I'm trying to have fun.
Sin: Ha ha ha ha nuuuuuuub *kses me for the rest of the day*
Yeah, I doubt you can convince the entire community, especially if it contains many immature ten year olds who use ad hominems.

Right.
*Goes and attempts to have fun.*
*Stereotypical Dexless Assassin changes to my channel*
Sin: Nub I have better equipments .
Me: Don't bother me, I'm trying to have fun.
Sin: Ha ha ha ha nuuuuuuub *kses me for the rest of the day*
Yeah, I doubt you can convince the entire community, especially if it contains many immature ten year olds who use ad hominems.

Don't let a few bad apples spoil your day.

Right.
*Goes and attempts to have fun.*
*Stereotypical Dexless Assassin changes to my channel*
Sin: Nub I have better equipments .
Me: Don't bother me, I'm trying to have fun.
Sin: Ha ha ha ha nuuuuuuub *kses me for the rest of the day*
Yeah, I doubt you can convince the entire community, especially if it contains many immature ten year olds who use ad hominems.

I also have some things to add to that list:

-Being cut out of boss runs because your class is "supposedly" inferior to the Elite. Archmages and WKs are usually the victims of this because somehow the Elite classes (Bishops and NLs come to mind) believe that having those classes in a bossrun will cause the group to wipe and die. Aren't the only reason for dying in a boss run because you don't have enough health to take a max hit, or for being too slow to pot? Heck, I even think people wouldn't even take Mages and WKs to small stuff like APQ or HTPQ! (Sure, the whole Geist Rog being elementally strong is a setback, but at least he's not immune.)

-Being cut out because you didn't "max" out your character in every possible way. Yes, I'm looking at you DEXless Sins who only went that way to show off your awesome L33T DPS. I'm also looking at those people who think Facestompers are a necessary investment, even before they even upgrade their cape or gloves!

-Being cut out of getting upgrades just because your class can't make money for crap, and that you don't use iTCG/Gachapon/buy mesos/APQ/gold-dig/MTS merchant/general merchant/Use a DK to hack and bot for mesos/Using site exploits or social engineering to steal accounts.

The whole lack of actual competition (PvP for example) in MS leads people to being competitive elsewhere. The above are just a few examples of it.

And those negative aspects have led me to spending less time in MS since '07, even though I came back to MS in May of this year to see things. And yes, I was around to see the PG hacking epidemic once, which led me to vacate MS until May of '08. Heck, I still don't even understand how I managed to live through the hacking epidemics in '05-'07, yet somehow the PG hacking turned me off from MS until now. Granted, I was a hacker hunter in the '05-'07 days, but I think that itself also burned me out.

My point is, if you're conducting an analysis of what modern Maple Story is

Just a note of how I'm using the term "modern maplestory" even though it's not our topic at the moment: I'm referring to maplestory as of September 2008. Because Global Maple Story is only three years old. But the game has gone through drastic changes. Hell, even gMS now differs greatly than gMS six months ago due to new content, and new standards.

What I'm saying is, you're not getting all the facts, and the only way to consistantly prove these "discoveries" to be empirical "truth" is to conduct the same study several more times, and recieve the same or similar results.

I tried to present facts to the point where every sentence was backed up by some sort of proof (in this case, url's). I didn't have every sentence backed up, but I did present enough sources.

I wouldn't necessarily call this thread a "study" because all I did was string together a bunch of event's that were correlated with each other. We cannot say correlation imply causation, but we certain can draw conclusion from those correlation events. Which was exactly what I did. Drawing a conclusion from those said events.

Why are you complaining about a game you don't play anymore, or a community you're not part of anymore?

It's like saying that I quit watching baseball because I hate the sport, but I still talk about it with my friends, and look at the scoreboards to see the standings and stats of the different teams and players. Doesn't that mean that I'm still somehow interested in baseball despite my decision to "quit" it? Isn't quitting defined as to stop, cease, or discontinue a certain activity?

I thought we've discussed pass the part about how this thread is about complaining when complaining is not what I'm trying to do? Anyway, I suppose what went wrong here is how we both defined "quitting" in our own terms. You're association this forum with maplestory. And by your logic, one who actively visits this forum is at least somewhat active in maplestory and if you're not active in the maplestory, why visit it's forum?

Quitting like you said, is to cease or discontinue a certain activity. I have ceased playing maplestory but I have not ceased browsing its fan forum; the difference is there. Like Judgment and I have mentioned, why must one be continually playing mapleglobal in order to post on a maplestory fan site? I certainly don't see anything wrong or faulty about you hating baseball but still show interest in the sport. Perhaps one time in a game, the ball struck you so hard you're traumatic about ever playing again but you still like baseball. I'll admit I do like playing maplestory. I wouldn't have made three fourth job characters if I didn't. I just don't want to put up with the ridiculous exp curve, the community, and the service (any longer).

And dear god, high school over university? I'd never go back to high school after spending several years in university... high school was a joke - University is so much more stimulating. High school is not the be all and end all: there's so much more to life, there's so much more after high school.

I obviously haven't spoken to every person that ever went to college but apparently it seems that coincidentally the people I've talked too all would've chosen high school over college. This isn't the case for everyone, namely yourself. So the number of people I've talked to isn't very representative of the 'norm' which is why I chose to phrase "many college students" rather than "most college students".

----------------

Since you agree that maplestory is a culture, then I'm sure with it comes subcultures, and micro-culture (The Western culture is a culture, American is a subculture because it follows the Western culture, and the teenage group is a micro-culture because it is a small branch that stemmed from the two). Like Judgment and I have mentioned, why must one be continually playing mapleglobal in order to post on a maplestory fan site? I suppose it's because I'm still looking at many aspects of the game while not actually playing the game. Similar to what Judgement said, there are people who are active when it comes to maplestory-related events but they do not have to necessarily play. Sleepywood had more people who visited the forum because it dates way back to global's beta days and the players of those times have quit for a long time. However, they have not stopped viewing or posting on the forum. Some of them are still presenting "discoveries". I can name Stereo. Stereo had mentioned she does not very active in maplestory but is still proving to be very active in posting and does number crunching outside of mapletory. Does a person who writes articles about maplestory have to actually be playing maplstory? Probably not.

To understand a culture, you must live with the culture. This is what the fieldwork of cultural anthropologist does. They live in the culture, learn its customs and dances, and eat its food. I've lived with maplestory for three years. I don't think I would've been able to present all this if I didn't.

If you're seen my thread history, I present thoughts that not many people give thought to

Papulatus--One of a Kind (about the uniqueness of Papulatus)
Sad Indeed... (about luk, lukless, and elemental weapon's contribution to the two).
Something I never quite understood... (about hybrid heroes)

Similar to how you "would waste so much of your energy on such a long post" when you disagree with what I'm presenting on so many levels. It's something I "enjoy" doing.

Well, I'm adding my two cents to the first post. Too much of this topic is off-topic so I didn't read it all. (Long ass post coming up.)

Anyhow, as I'm sure many have mentioned, most of the time our reason for constantly logging on Maple is due to our friends. This game is 'fun' when you're around people. The game itself (omgawd good point) has a lot of opennings for jokes, and let's face, we have ton of them amongst ourselves.
Leveling up is nice. It opens new doors to you, and gives the game a bit more of a variety. This is more noticible in the wee early levels, especially as a first time player, and once you hit a landmark like level 30 you can do so many things, and have all these flashy new skills to get. So you start leveling, exploring, etc. Eventually, the variety becomes scarse, and instead of seeing a real change in skills/equipment/quests every 5 levels, it becomes 10. Then after a bit, those changes from every 10 levels become barely noticible, and so forth. The game creates a necessity of intense dedication to be 'worthy'. Aside from the game standards itself in that sense, we have the community that is just as strict. Levels, equipment and play time determine your worth. It's sad when you think you've made some great friends and later on they leave you behind or aside because you can't play as much as them, or can't spend as much money on the game as them. Sadly, I've had this happened to me quite a bit... even with friends I met outside of maple and invited them to join. They changed outside the game too. And even then, people are still playing... To be as the same rank as their friends to be accepted again? To be able to show off their gaming skill for being a 'high level'? To try to escape a stressful world of reality, stressing yourself even more ingame than outside? I frankly think most people just don't realize how bad some things are due to being addicted to maple.

As for a bit of my story as to why I was addicted... I met the love of my life in a LPQ 2 years ago (Of all places, I know. *sigh*). Anyone who knows us, know we're going for the real deal. We want to get married and everything, been together before despite living a country away. We both turned into 10+ hours worth of daily maple addicts because we enjoyed being together so much, and we had fun together on maple. Once things began to change, seeing as how the -less bandwagon begun, 2x Cards were being released, etc., we broke from our addiction, and just grinded every once in a while because we felt obligated to be able to mantain friendships by being active. Nowadays, he's done completely and I want to reach my goal of 120 to happily retire and maybe sell my account to someone so they can continue what I started. Maple has no joy for me now, it's lost it's charm, and even though it's given me some nice memories, laughs and fiancee, I wonder at times if it really was worth it after all the misery my "friends" put me through, and the family problems it's brought upon me.