Hawaiian Mafia: Mafia and Survivor Win

I'm still divided, but I find myself agreeing with Holypie. Also Mas, as you yourself have admitted, your gambit is just as easily designed to draw the doctor out. You can claim that you had good intentions for it, but it's just as easily something a mafian might do to try and get rid of the doctor. And at this point, I really think you're more likely a mafian that Synthesist is.

[vote] MasPan

[color="#cc8899"]Again, if the intent was to kill the doctor, why would I abandon it now, when everyone had been siding with me? When the mafia can win in 3 kills?

And I'm pretty certain Synthesist isn't a mafian. I know for fact that I'm not. I urge you not to waste the last real chance the town has to recover from our position on lynching an active voter.[/COLOR]

I suppose it is to a point, but it seems fairly obvious that we've done the mafia's work for them by lynching so many active voters. Perhaps I should have stopped short of suggesting that all active players were cleared by it, I meant that it seems obvious now that most of the mafia has been hiding in the lurking/nonparticipation section. Thus, while chances are good someone amongst the active voters is a mafian, they're a far lesser threat than the remaining mafians whom we have no clear information on unless the detective has some.

As for Synthesist, I must admit that he so rarely speaks that I'm inclined to believe him, if not for Mas's earlier claim. So one of them is lying for one reason or another. As to which one it is, I'm more inclined to believe Synthesist, but it does seem like a gambit that a mafian might attempt at this point so I'm a bit divided on it. Of course that brings up the possibility that Mas lied because he was mafian. And since no one has counter claimed until now. So perhaps he was hoping to draw out the true doctor with that, or at least muddle the issue, but didn't because it was Synthesist. That would certainly make sense.

I'm still divided, but I find myself agreeing with Holypie. Also Mas, as you yourself have admitted, your gambit is just as easily designed to draw the doctor out. You can claim that you had good intentions for it, but it's just as easily something a mafian might do to try and get rid of the doctor. And at this point, I really think you're more likely a mafian that Synthesist is.

[vote] MasPan

Vote: ElectricSix

You're spinning a lot of stuff about "doing the mafia's work for them," spreading confusion about for the town, and picking on a ploy that was employed to screw with the mafia. Pretty scummy to me.

Vote: ElectricSix

You're spinning a lot of stuff about "doing the mafia's work for them," spreading confusion about for the town, and picking on a ploy that was employed to screw with the mafia. Pretty scummy to me.

While I don't exactly trust E6 either, we need him as an active voter. He had a good point when he said that most of the mafia are probably lurking afk. We have much better odds targeting the inactive players, or those who have been active but not voting (such as Mira, BTA)

Honestly, I think the mafia is fine with the doctor still out there. At most a doctor gets 2 saves in SP games, and that's either because they got lucky or because it's obvious who the mafia will target. The latter is not an option because Synthesist never pays attention to day chat (Why would he? All he does is ctrl+f for his name probably, in case he's being voted for so he can speak up. I highly doubt that he follows activity). At this point, it would be wise for a mafian to use the guise of being a doctor and when someone counterclaims, say that they were WIFOM'ing the mafia and use the "pursuing the doctor" line to cover it up. As a veeeeeeeeeeery side note, Dual may have purposely made MasPan mafia to troll, he's done it before.

Honestly, I think the mafia is fine with the doctor still out there. At most a doctor gets 2 saves in SP games, and that's either because they got lucky or because it's obvious who the mafia will target. The latter is not an option because Synthesist never pays attention to day chat (Why would he? All he does is ctrl+f for his name probably, in case he's being voted for so he can speak up. I highly doubt that he follows activity). At this point, it would be wise for a mafian to use the guise of being a doctor and when someone counterclaims, say that they were WIFOM'ing the mafia and use the "pursuing the doctor" line to cover it up. As a veeeeeeeeeeery side note, Dual may have purposely made MasPan mafia to troll, he's done it before.

[color="#cc8899"]No, it wouldn't be. That makes absolutely no sense to do from a mafia standpoint:
1. Abandoning a believed and supported claim. Hell no, never do that.
2. Abandoning a near successful lynch on the probable real doctor in favor of saying something that is likely to get yourself lynched. Hahahahaha...no.
3. Synthesist DOES pay attention to the games, he's made that abundantly clear in the past.

Read what you're suggesting and think about it. What I've been doing the entire game has done nothing but put me in danger both from town lynches and mafia kills. My roleclaim has not once been a factor in any lynches prior, so from a mafia standpoint, that's useless too. Synthesist did what I hinted the doctor should, keep quiet and keep saving people while I draw attention away from him.

Now you're beginning to look suspicious again. What I've done has been to place myself in danger time and again for the benefit of the real doctor and by extension the town. Nothing I'm doing now is any kind of benefit, and, if I was mafia, would be entirely detrimental to my cause.

As many times as I've been mafia, and demonstrated that I can come up with better ideas than that, do you honestly believe I would do something so...stupid? It's insulting.[/COLOR]

Vote: ElectricSix

You're spinning a lot of stuff about "doing the mafia's work for them," spreading confusion about for the town, and picking on a ploy that was employed to screw with the mafia. Pretty scummy to me.

I haven't been trying to cause confusion with my posts. I mean really now, is it so bad to state the obvious? Would you prefer me to be more oblique in referencing the number of townie lynches we've done? Or the fact that it's only now we're finally seeing people participate somewhat? And even then, it's still just a few who are actually voting. Synthesist just posted to state he was the doctor, and nothing else. Seems most people just want to watch without participating more than an occasional comment. None of that has helped the town, but the active people haven't helped the town either. By focusing only on the actives, we've killed off a lot of people whose votes would be useful given the lack of votes from many of the remaining players.

As for my comments at MasPan, all I can say is to read them yourself. The more he's posted, the more I think Holypie is right and this is his last desperate attempt to prevent people from seeing that the jig is up on him. Apparently it's worked for you, but all it's done has convinced me that he is a mafian.

I haven't been trying to cause confusion with my posts. I mean really now, is it so bad to state the obvious? Would you prefer me to be more oblique in referencing the number of townie lynches we've done? Or the fact that it's only now we're finally seeing people participate somewhat? And even then, it's still just a few who are actually voting. Synthesist just posted to state he was the doctor, and nothing else. Seems most people just want to watch without participating more than an occasional comment. None of that has helped the town, but the active people haven't helped the town either. By focusing only on the actives, we've killed off a lot of people whose votes would be useful given the lack of votes from many of the remaining players.

As for my comments at MasPan, all I can say is to read them yourself. The more he's posted, the more I think Holypie is right and this is his last desperate attempt to prevent people from seeing that the jig is up on him. Apparently it's worked for you, but all it's done has convinced me that he is a mafian.

[color="#cc8899"]
I assure you I am not a mafian. As I've stated numerous times before, abandoning my roleclaim does nothing to further the cause of mafia. Also keep in mind that I've been specifically advocating the very thing you are for most of the game - focusing on inactives and encouraging them to post. If my goal as mafia was to manipulate the town into killing the actives, why would I try to bring inactives into the mix? Your arguments don't add up. [/COLOR]

[COLOR="#ff9900"][vote] MasPan

I'm kinda wondering why you're not dead by the mafia. Either way, I don't like the antics you pulled with the roleclaim thing. The gambit you attempted on Day 2 had little purpose.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#ff9900"][vote] MasPan

I'm kinda wondering why you're not dead by the mafia.[/COLOR]

I presume that either Synthesist protected me at some point or the mafia is simply aware of my reputation and leaving me alone. I really hope you're not going to lynch me just because of RNG making me scum in most prior games. That'd be derp.

I presume that either Synthesist protected me at some point or the mafia is simply aware of my reputation and leaving me alone. I really hope you're not going to lynch me just because of RNG making me scum in most prior games. That'd be derp.

I can add that to the list of reasons if you want to, now that you suggested it =D

I can add that to the list of reasons if you want to, now that you suggested it =D

[color="#cc8899"]I would much prefer someone suggest some possible benefit a mafian would stand to gain from abandoning a believed/trusted roleclaim, abandoning a townie lynch, and in the process WIFOM'ing himself into a lynch. Go on. Find one. Try. Assuming 4 mafians, the mafia wins in 3 kills. Synthesist would've been 1. Night kill with no doctor is 2. That leaves only a single mislynch and the mafia wins. Why would I abandon a position like that simply to get myself killed, if I were mafia? There is absolutely NOTHING to gain from it.

./headdesk[/COLOR]

I would much prefer someone suggest some possible benefit a mafian would stand to gain from abandoning a believed/trusted roleclaim, abandoning a townie lynch, and in the process WIFOM'ing himself into a lynch. Go on. Find one. Try. Assuming 4 mafians, the mafia wins in 3 kills. Synthesist would've been 1. Night kill with no doctor is 2. That leaves only a single mislynch and the mafia wins. Why would I abandon a position like that simply to get myself killed, if I were mafia? There is absolutely NOTHING to gain from it.

./headdesk

Stupidity, and/or the fact that you're lying for very little reason. Townies in general don't need to lie.

Stupidity, and/or the fact that you're lying for very little reason. Townies in general don't need to lie.

[color="#cc8899"]This is a vanilla heavy game. As I said before, my goal was to protect the doctor. By WIFOM'ing the mafia, my goals were as follows:
1. Give the real doctor a high probability target to protect (make the mafia waste a kill)
2. Scare the mafia from killing me (protect myself)
3. Draw mafia attention away from the real doctor (make myself a target)

Other than voting, this was my way of being useful to the town. If you remember way back to my first mafia game, I've always pulled unusual strategies as a townie - my first game I went around claiming to be mafia to attempt to sway votes towards those I suspected and to attempt to discover by player reactions who might truly be mafia. By doing so I found out Mira to be the godmother, though unfortunately nobody trusted me even after I martyr'd myself to try to convince them.

I am a vanilla. By nature of my role I am here to make killing the power roles harder for mafians. I have done nothing but act in that interest. If you remember Dual pulled a similar WIFOM as the real detective in Holypie's game, yet he was not attacked for it. Please don't insult me by saying I am acting out of stupidity, you know better.[/COLOR]

[color="#cc8899"]This is a vanilla heavy game. As I said before, my goal was to protect the doctor. By WIFOM'ing the mafia, my goals were as follows:
1. Give the real doctor a high probability target to protect (make the mafia waste a kill)
2. Scare the mafia from killing me (protect myself)
3. Draw mafia attention away from the real doctor (make myself a target)

Other than voting, this was my way of being useful to the town. If you remember way back to my first mafia game, I've always pulled unusual strategies as a townie - my first game I went around claiming to be mafia to attempt to sway votes towards those I suspected and to attempt to discover by player reactions who might truly be mafia. By doing so I found out Mira to be the godmother, though unfortunately nobody trusted me even after I martyr'd myself to try to convince them.

I am a vanilla. By nature of my role I am here to make killing the power roles harder for mafians. I have done nothing but act in that interest. If you remember Dual pulled a similar WIFOM as the real detective in Holypie's game, yet he was not attacked for it. Please don't insult me by saying I am acting out of stupidity, you know better.[/COLOR]

1. Unless Synthesist mentions a successful protect on you, there's no way to prove that you were even targeted by the mafia, which means we have to assume you're a townie for that to work in any event.
2. Again, can't be proven as we don't know what the mafia is thinking. Whether that made them think twice about you, or not is something that only the mafians would know.
3. Did it work? We don't know, what we do know is that you lied about your role, claiming it was for the doctor's benefit. So far I haven't seen much benefit. Synthesist was perfectly safe until you suggested him for today's lynch. In addition to that, if we didn't believe Synthesist, then he would be in a harder spot as you had already claimed his role. Of course you changed your mind and revealed yourself as a townie, but somehow that just seems a bit hollow.

As I've said before, I think you went with that whole doctor thing as a gambit to pull out the real doctor, but that didn't work. Then when Synthesist roleclaimed it, you realized that some people might very well believe him. Thus you decided it'd be safer to say you lied as you originally suggested one of the possibilities was. After all, there's still a detective around, and if they revealed and vouched for Synthesist, you were screwed. Of course you could still claim as townie and perhaps be believed.

*Notes for Mute that all of this is speculation* Hmm, or perhaps you have a stronger reason that even that for claiming townie? Perhaps you got the godfather role? And you're hoping that a detective looked at you and saw a vanilla townie instead of a mafian. That would certainly make sense why you didn't worry too much about claiming the doctor as a lie or even appearing to be a mafian.

taking my vote off brandon, not like its going to change anything

[vote]brandon

This is a vanilla heavy game. As I said before, my goal was to protect the doctor. By WIFOM'ing the mafia, my goals were as follows:
1. Give the real doctor a high probability target to protect (make the mafia waste a kill)
2. Scare the mafia from killing me (protect myself)
3. Draw mafia attention away from the real doctor (make myself a target)

Other than voting, this was my way of being useful to the town. If you remember way back to my first mafia game, I've always pulled unusual strategies as a townie - my first game I went around claiming to be mafia to attempt to sway votes towards those I suspected and to attempt to discover by player reactions who might truly be mafia. By doing so I found out Mira to be the godmother, though unfortunately nobody trusted me even after I martyr'd myself to try to convince them.

I am a vanilla. By nature of my role I am here to make killing the power roles harder for mafians. I have done nothing but act in that interest. If you remember Dual pulled a similar WIFOM as the real detective in Holypie's game, yet he was not attacked for it. Please don't insult me by saying I am acting out of stupidity, you know better.

[COLOR="#ff9900"]Dual could reasonably do that because iirc, someone else was pulling the detective roleclaim. It's too bad that mafia self-destructed on day 1 so we don't know what would have happened (I'm not trying to imply anything about intelligence in this case). However, you're known for doing "grats doctor" in my book and there's not a whole lot of reason to believe that you're the real doctor after seeing that you're ready to lie in a lot of circumstances.

And I wasn't there when Mira was Godmother or wtp you did at the time.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="green"]Not to toot my own horn, but last game I was Cop and I roleclaimed the Cop's choice of someone to be his information revealer and then I went on to claim I actualy was Cop which made it impossible to know if I was or not.

But I digress, 45 minutes remaining.[/COLOR]

[color="#cc8899"]Just pineappleing godkill me now Dual. These idiots aren't going to listen to reason.

MasPan jumped into the fire, prophecizing doom on those who should have been his saviors.[/COLOR]

I still require a majority to kill anyone.

I still require a majority to kill anyone.

[color="#cc8899"]No, you only require the majority of votes be on someone, not the majority of the town to agree on a vote right? Most of the votes are on me. The town has made that abundantly clear that they won't change their votes, despite anything I had to say on the matter. I'm doomed to a lynch, just pineappleing do it already.

If you really want to play it that way, give me a rule to break so I can be godkilled.

Also, removing my vote from cookie. Again, that was to encourage participation, not to attack you specifically.

[color="#cc8899"]Seeing as the entire point of that was to get people to be more active, I'm changing my vote after I look over the past few pages.

[][vote]z0mgc00k13[/B]

@ Synthesist, thank you for keeping quiet long enough for my WIFOM to screw with the mafia. Much obliged.[/COLOR]

This one goes out to all the townies who don't understand that what I did had absolutely no benefit to mafia whatsoever and is tantamount to suicide if I was. Learn some common sense, goddamn.

[/COLOR]