Dual Blade Builds

I'm currently looking at two things right now:

1) Fatal Blow vs. Triple Stab

Okay so, I have 30 fatal blow right now and It's pretty useless. I'm considering using this other reset I have to get rid what's in fatal blow to get back triple stab. When I used my first reset, I was already 120, so I figured I really didn't need it. But after some reading, it seems like Triple stab would be better to use than fatal.

2) Thorns vs. Final Cut

I'm 127 right now sitting on 24 Thorns and 1 CoH. I'm not entirely sure what to do. Like I previously stated, I have a reset scroll and am considering using it. If I do, would it be more beneficial to get Final Cut before maxing Thorns? I'm not entirely sure how FC works, is that 5% at level 1 passive, so it's just a damage boost?

Also, if there are any 130+ DB's out there, could you post your skill build so I can see what you did?

Thanks.

Fatal Blow is useless. There should be no reason to use it. It has little if any invincibility frames (can't really tell because you're so slow anyways you're almost guaranteed to be hit), and is ridiculously slow. Upper Stab should be better DPS, even if the monster is in midair when you Fatal Blow and have maxed Final Cut, and it's faster so you keep more fluidity in your motions.
Triple Stab should generally be stronger too, considering the Dagger and Blade attack ratio.


Final Cut's bonus is a 1.05x increase in damage to those skills at level 1, and 1.25x increase maxed, passively. It gives a better damage bonus than Thorns. I would recommend it first in this case. If you reset, I'd recommend getting 1 Mirror Target for the avoid too; however, I believe the passive damage Final Cut gives is removed in Chaos, but if we're considering that, you should be preparing to max Blade Fury anyway so yeah.

Okay so I'll probably reset tomorrow and get rid of Fatal Blow. I don't have Final Cut right now, but I should be getting it soon. From the extractions that Paul posted, I guess it does lose it passive damage boost, but we should be getting a reset anyways so I'll put those points into Fury or Phantom Blow when the time comes around. It's a few months down the road anyways, I can worry about it then, and hopefully I be a higher level.

So, in the end I'll have 25 4th job points. Should I do a mix of Thorns and FC right now, or just pour 24 into FC and 1 into target? I'm not entirely sure what would be the most effective.

I think dumping it all into Final Cut with 1 Mirror Target is more useful. Thorns gives a 1.106x boost when it's maxed compared to having none at all. It'd only be (marginally) better than Final Cut for those skills if you were partying with maxed Sharp Eyes. Assuming they stack now, I haven't heard otherwise. Plus you can use the active ability more often.

Alright, that sounds good then so I'll just end up doing that. I'd rather have the passive boost then having to use the buff all the time anyways. Getting to 140 shouldn't be that bad anyway to max thorns right after FC. The Chaos update looks beast though, I can't wait to use fury. :x

Assuming they stack now, I haven't heard otherwise.

Yes, thorns and SE stacks, tested that the damage clearly stacks in there. As for the critical rates, they do not unfortunately which is lame. Regardless, My own recommendations are to get 1 mirror target and max final cut as well. You can work on thorns next after you get final cut done.

Does mirrored target actually work like fake? I can't tell with 1 point into the skill... I can't make out any special "fake" animation, and I can't tell if my stats increased...

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On another note, my post BB SP build:

[spoiler=] Thief (Lvl. 10-20)

10 Double Stab
Save SP

[I]Notes: 10 Double Stab is a pre-requisite for triple stab in II job.

[II] Blade Recruit (Lvl. 20-30)

1 Triple Stab
Max (20) Katara Mastery
6 Katara Booster
Max (10) Triple Stab
Max (20) Katara Booster
1 Disorder

Notes: Mastery is prioritized before putting more than 1 point into triple stab because everything in II job dies quickly, so it would be better if you had more stable damage earlier. For some reason, we can no longer save SP from II job over to II+ job. The 1 point into Disorder is because there is nothing else worth putting points into (yet), so we start on dark sight's (which we will need later on) pre-requisite.

[II+] Blade Acolyte (Lvl. 30-55)

Max (20) Slash Storm
Max (20) Self Haste
Max (20) Shadow Resistance
3 Disorder (not 3 points into Disorder, just that it should be at level 3)
Max (10) Dark Sight
4-5 extra points

Notes: Slash Storm is maxed first because it has been majorly buffed after big bang. Fatal Blow is skipped entirely (unless you use the few extra points in it) because it is useless beyond 2nd job (gets out-damaged by Upper Stab later on, even on a single target), and Triple Stab should better compliment slash storm during these levels.

[III] Blade Specialist (Lvl. 55-70)

1 Tornado Spin
1 Flashbang
Max (20) Flash Jump
Save SP

Notes: The 1 point skills both have niche purposes, but I still recommend them. Flash Jump helps ALL the time, and is incredibly fun.

[III+] Blade Lord (Lvl. 70-120)

Max (10) Bloody Storm
Max (20) Flying Assaulter
Max (30) Mirror Image
Max (20) Tornado Spin
Max (20) Upper Stab
Max (20) Owl Spirit
Max (20) Flashbang
Max (20) Advanced Dark Sight
14-17 extra points

Notes: Bloody Storm (majorly buffed after big bang) is maxed first in order to combo with Flying Assaulter. It requires less points than the Flying Assaulter -> Tornado Spin (and Upper Stab) combo, and is better when you're relatively weaker at early third job and mobs take a long(er) time to kill. Mirror image is now based on a multiplier of your skill damage (aka majorly buffed after big bang, although it's still not affected by final cut or criticals). Tornado Spin is maxed before Upper Stab because you don't use Upper Stab much until you can combo Tornado Spin with Flying Assaulter. The order of Owl Spirit and Flashbang could be switched depending on your preferences.

[IV] Blade Master (Lvl. 120+)

1 Chains of Hell
Max (30) Final Cut
Max (30) Thorns
Max (30) Chains of Hell
To be continued... (or not)

Notes: The 1 point in Chains of Hell is for the times i-frames may come in handy. Final Cut now gives a larger damage boost than Thorns. Chains of Hell is given a relatively low priority because Upper Stab's DPS is similar (seemingly very close) to Chains of Hell itself. Sudden Raid and Monster Bomb are niche skills, and Mirrored Target is cute. You may want to put 1 point into them somewhere along the way. 1 point in Venom may also help early on. Although it can now work on bosses as well, it generally has been majorly nerfed after big bang.[/spoiler]

Does mirrored target actually work like fake? I can't tell with 1 point into the skill... I can't make out any special "fake" animation, and I can't tell if my stats increased...

Well, there is no solid proof that it does work but, that would also mean that the 60% defense boost doesn't work either. However, it does, and so should the avoid. It just does "Fake" without the animation, much like how paladin's guardian also have "Fake" property in which they can block 40% of every attack. Something funny about this skill though, it seems that even the puppet gains the avoid property and actually does real 'Fake" because it can dodge bosses and put up that F2 face for you (I don't recall puppet from bowman ever dodging any hits). So it works passively for both you and the puppet.

Bowman's puppet can be missed.

I'd like to thank you guys for the great advice. I got my Final plum and Triple Stab and the build I'm working on right now it a hell of a lot better than the previous. I didn't even realize that the damage boost from FC was so beast. Now it just makes me hate that is gets uber nerfed in the Chaos update. :/

edit: really, plum...?

I'd like to thank you guys for the great advice. I got my Final plum and Triple Stab and the build I'm working on right now it a hell of a lot better than the previous. I didn't even realize that the damage boost from FC was so beast. Now it just makes me hate that is gets uber nerfed in the Chaos update. :/

edit: really, plum...?

From what I've heard, Dual Blades do damage based on their actual displayed range in Chaos, instead of one Dagger hit and one Blade it, so Katara are glorified attack shields. There may be a changed modifier with it, but if there isn't, there is an exceptional boost to a lot of skills. For example, Flying Assaulter currently does 420% Dagger and Blade; since the Blade's multiplier is lower than the Dagger, you are effectively doing less than 420% (525% with Final Cut maxed)of your damage range, which is calculated as if the Blade were an attack shield. This effectiveness is further decreased by the off-weapon attack being split between Blades and Daggers. After Chaos, Flying Assaulter will do 280% of your damage range, per hit, thus a total of 560%. If the multiplier were decreased, there should still be some marginal increase in damage, especially for pre-4th job Dual Blades.

Also, Advanced Dark Sight adds damage too. If you're in Dark Sight while attacking with maxed ADS, you do 50% more damage, and have a 20% chance of entering Dark Sight after each attack if you're not in Dark Sight, a bonus in damage that Big Bang Dual Blades do not have.

Given that, I believe every skill has their overall damage output increased in Chaos, despite their %s lowered. I could be wrong, however, about this assumption, but from the Chaos Dual Blade videos I have seen, there does not appear to be a difference between alternating hits.

From what I've heard, Dual Blades do damage based on their actual displayed range in Chaos, instead of one Dagger hit and one Blade it, so Katara are glorified attack shields. There may be a changed modifier with it, but if there isn't, there is an exceptional boost to a lot of skills. For example, Flying Assaulter currently does 420% Dagger and Blade; since the Blade's multiplier is lower than the Dagger, you are effectively doing less than 420% (525% with Final Cut maxed)of your damage range, which is calculated as if the Blade were an attack shield. This effectiveness is further decreased by the off-weapon attack being split between Blades and Daggers. After Chaos, Flying Assaulter will do 280% of your damage range, per hit, thus a total of 560%. If the multiplier were decreased, there should still be some marginal increase in damage, especially for pre-4th job Dual Blades.

Also, Advanced Dark Sight adds damage too. If you're in Dark Sight while attacking with maxed ADS, you do 50% more damage, and have a 20% chance of entering Dark Sight after each attack if you're not in Dark Sight, a bonus in damage that Big Bang Dual Blades do not have.

Given that, I believe every skill has their overall damage output increased in Chaos, despite their %s lowered. I could be wrong, however, about this assumption, but from the Chaos Dual Blade videos I have seen, there does not appear to be a difference between alternating hits.

That actually makes a lot of sense. I remember seeing that formulas and things changed in the Chaos update for Dual Blades. That's extremely reassuring though. I was under the impression that Dual Blades we're going to get nerfed to high heaven, but with this new way of actually calculating damage, it turns out we might get a little stronger. It also makes thing much more easy to comprehend. I'm not the type of guy that understands all the little mechanics of skills, but this is pretty simple.