What do you think of Assange and Wikileaks?

I'm interested in why xLeviathin is detracting from the content that was specifically published and is referring to the more general concept of censorship. The statements basically constitute an appeal to authority, an appeal to emotion, and an ad hominem on character that is irrelevant to the content of the matter that has been posted. The character of someone who hosts a site must

I should be ashamed of someone who is fighting against internet and media censorship?

I didn't say anything about censorship until they did?

That said -- has it been about the actual content published for the last couple weeks? Yes, and no. More no lately, but the content still holds a lot of weight.

I didn't say anything about censorship until they did? That said -- has it been about the actual content published for the last couple weeks? Yes, and no. More no lately, but the content still holds a lot of weight.

"Assange more likely has a European superiority complex (like a lot of Europeans) and knows he can easily gain support from morons -- who did you think frequents 4chan and calls themselves Anonymous..? He doesn't really care what the cables say. Sure, "we're reading them line by line, but we'll release all of them in a s`hitstorm if anything happens to me or WikiLeaks."

This quote preceded the one that was mentioned by Cancambo. In it you make the assumption that Assange has a European superiority complex, apathetic to the material released, and imply that the people who enjoy having such material available are morons. Thus you detract from the actual argument at hand with a subversion of character. Assange's actions may or may not be tied into his character or personality as a person nor may they be of relevance to the actual actions in and of themselves. If you are going to refute the release then your appeals should be stemmed from the content that it pertains and are not empty appeals or attacks on pseudo-related factors.

"Assange more likely has a European superiority complex (like a lot of Europeans) and knows he can easily gain support from morons -- who did you think frequents 4chan and calls themselves Anonymous..? He doesn't really care what the cables say. Sure, "we're reading them line by line, but we'll release all of them in a s`hitstorm if anything happens to me or WikiLeaks."

This quote preceded the one that was mentioned by Cancambo. In it you make the assumption that Assange has a European superiority complex, apathetic to the material released, and imply that the people who enjoy having such material available are morons,

Go figure (read: yes, I do think that!)? It wasn't apathetic to the material, there's two separate points.

Oh, sorry, was I not allowed to talk about two things at once? I'll try not to set you on overload. Next time. Yes, I mentioned one thing, then I mentioned another. Your point?

I apologize, but I don't find that any of the points you've listed are convincing in any way or form. You have not given me any plausible reasons to change my beliefs and I will proceed to monitor this conversation as I find Matt and Maspan's recent commentary more convincing and educational than your own.

I apologize, but I don't find that any of the points you've listed are convincing in any way or form. You have not given me any plausible reasons to change my beliefs and I will proceed to monitor this conversation as I find Matt and Maspan's recent commentary more convincing and educational than your own.

Great! I missed the rule where I was here to persuade you or I couldn't be here at all. I think that's the point of a Speakeasy. (Wink!)

Let's redirect ourselves, shall we?
http://www.southperry.net/forumdisplay.php?f=23

By the way:

Assange's actions may or may not be tied into his character or personality as a person nor may they be of relevance to the actual actions in and of themselves. If you are going to refute the release then your appeals should be stemmed from the content that it pertains and are not empty appeals or attacks on pseudo-related factors.

I was saving the bulls`hit explaining (because you should know this), because let's face it -- our personalities always play a part in the rationale for our decisions. So yes, his "character or personality" are very relevant to the actual actions in and of themselves.

I didn't say anything about censorship until they did?

That said -- has it been about the actual content published for the last couple weeks? Yes, and no. More no lately, but the content still holds a lot of weight.

You told me I should be ashamed of Julian Assange. I am not ashamed of him since he has helped spark people around the globe to be aware of crimes the US government has committed, and hopefully is helping to prevent censorship.

You told me I should be ashamed of Julian Assange. I am not ashamed of him since he has helped spark people around the globe to be aware of crimes the US government has committed, and hopefully is helping to prevent censorship.

I know -- I understand. xD I was simply pointing something else out ~

nah.

WikiLeaks never said "please give us things to embarrass the USA." WikiLeaks setup an anonymous method that anyone in the world can give them information they feel should be published. WikiLeaks then reviews the information and decides to publish it. They jsut happened to get someone who had these cables.

Also, relevant:
[video=youtube;xhZk8ronces]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZk8ronces[/video]
transcript: http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Res...271961.htm

[color="#cc8899"]By creating a site for the sole purpose of publishing classified information outside of the legal method of doing so, he has indeed been requesting the information. I highly doubt you're dumb enough to actually believe what you just said. It's akin to "I didn't tell him to illegally download music and movies, I just made a filesharing website, it's not my fault people misuse it and I do nothing about it"

The website was created with the intent to facilitate illegal disclosure of classified information and encourages people to do so. We also don't know what went on behind the scenes with Manning contacting Wikileaks and saying "I might be able to provide ___, how could I do this?" I seem to remember Manning claiming that Wikileaks gave him instructions and software that would help him get the classified cables onto CDs in mass quantities without detection. [/COLOR]

"Russia: Julian Assange should be awarded Nobel peace prize"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec...eace-prize

[COLOR="green"]About the book burning comment made a little while back, of course I'd stand up and fight it. But that's a different form of knowledge. Yes, people need to be able to have access to information, and there should be no reason for them to not be when it is availible. But this information is stuff that very few people know, and is related to things that uphold the integrity of a country.

Sure, everyone, including myself, wants to know if the government is abusing it's power to commit crimes or horrible actions. Everyone in the world wants that. Are any of those governments going to tell you? Probably not, unless stuff like this happens. Everyone is going to have secrets, and not everyone is going to be an upstanding individual, especially people in the government. People lie all the time, with the severity being different, but there's nothing preventing people from it, so humans will always lie.

Other countries have done horrible stuff too, but simply because the things about the US have been revealed, everyone is rallying for him and attacking us. Because right now, the world's secrecy is in imbalance. A bunch of US secrets have been revealed, but nobody else is standing up to reveal information about themselves. That lets the entire world paint us as a scapegoat, as a group of horrible people, simply because our government did some bad things, like everyone else. Not to mention, countries are finding their feelings hurt due to lies other countries have made about them.

Imagine you're in a classroom, and someone walks into class and tells everyone there who you've masturbated to, or that you lied to your ex girlfriend about loving her just to get her in bed, or some other personal secret. You're going to be laughed at and ridiculed, as well as experience some backlash, but nobody else is going to stand up to offer information about themselves, leaving you in poor isolation, clutching to try and explain yourself for things you've done wrong in the past that you couldn't change.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="green"]About the book burning comment made a little while back, of course I'd stand up and fight it. But that's a different form of knowledge. Yes, people need to be able to have access to information, and there should be no reason for them to not be when it is availible. But this information is stuff that very few people know, and is related to things that uphold the integrity of a country.

Sure, everyone, including myself, wants to know if the government is abusing it's power to commit crimes or horrible actions. Everyone in the world wants that. Are any of those governments going to tell you? Probably not, unless stuff like this happens. Everyone is going to have secrets, and not everyone is going to be an upstanding individual, especially people in the government. People lie all the time, with the severity being different, but there's nothing preventing people from it, so humans will always lie.

Other countries have done horrible stuff too, but simply because the things about the US have been revealed, everyone is rallying for him and attacking us. Because right now, the world's secrecy is in imbalance. A bunch of US secrets have been revealed, but nobody else is standing up to reveal information about themselves. That lets the entire world paint us as a scapegoat, as a group of horrible people, simply because our government did some bad things, like everyone else. Not to mention, countries are finding their feelings hurt due to lies other countries have made about them.

Imagine you're in a classroom, and someone walks into class and tells everyone there who you've masturbated to, or that you lied to your ex girlfriend about loving her just to get her in bed, or some other personal secret. You're going to be laughed at and ridiculed, as well as experience some backlash, but nobody else is going to stand up to offer information about themselves, leaving you in poor isolation, clutching to try and explain yourself for things you've done wrong in the past that you couldn't change.[/COLOR]

If you lie to a women to have sex with her, i think she deserves to know and frankly i don't care if someone knows who i jerk it to considering I'm not a pedo or anything (and if i was IMO i think I should be reported).

As well you're 100% right people generally won't reveal secrets on their own ESPECIALLY when it can damage their integrity and ya know what a lot of secrets worth knowing such as reasons for war will damage integrity. I'd be thankful people like Assange are willing to reveal them.

If you lie to a women to have sex with her, i think she deserves to know and frankly i don't care if someone knows who i jerk it to considering I'm not a pedo or anything (and if i was IMO i think I should be reported).

Of course, I'm against it like most people, but I'm just saying what's done is done. You could even be sorry for doing it, but that doesn't change what you've done, which is why most people hide it, because no matter what they do, it won't just pass easily.

Of course, I'm against it like most people, but I'm just saying what's done is done. You could even be sorry for doing it, but that doesn't change what you've done, which is why most people hide it, because no matter what they do, it won't just pass easily.

Sometimes what's hidden needs to be shown.

Yeah you can argue along the lines of "little white lies don't hurt anyone" and "sometimes the truth hurts more then the lie" but IMO it's better for the person to know so they can get past it.

I always thought to myself even if a someone wears a mask is it better to know them by the decorations of the mask or the person behind the mask.

Sometimes what's hidden needs to be shown.

Yeah you can argue along the lines of "little white lies don't hurt anyone" and "sometimes the truth hurts more then the lie" but IMO it's better for the person to know so they can get past it.

I always thought to myself even if a someone wears a mask is it better to know them by the decorations of the mask or the person behind the mask.

Nations have fought wars with other nations over rumors and faiths, so you don't think that other nations won't get upset with american and that they could possibly be swayed to pull support for any future endeavors the US wants to make?

Let me give you an example in fiction: Batman was kicked outta the JLA when it was revealed he had information and a guideline on how to defeat the rest of the heroes in case they turned bad.

Nations have fought wars with other nations over rumors and faiths, so you don't think that other nations won't get upset with american and that they could possibly be swayed to pull support for any future endeavors the US wants to make?

Let me give you an example in fiction: Batman was kicked outta the JLA when it was revealed he had information and a guideline on how to defeat the rest of the heroes in case they turned bad.

I don't read comics but i can assume something happened to batman's benefits later on (then again it's batman so with his dark stories who can say...).

If someone is saying or doing something that can jeopardize the US in such a way we need to know about it to get them the hell out of office.

[COLOR="green"]About the book burning comment made a little while back, of course I'd stand up and fight it. But that's a different form of knowledge. Yes, people need to be able to have access to information, and there should be no reason for them to not be when it is availible. But this information is stuff that very few people know, and is related to things that uphold the integrity of a country.

Sure, everyone, including myself, wants to know if the government is abusing it's power to commit crimes or horrible actions. Everyone in the world wants that. Are any of those governments going to tell you? Probably not, unless stuff like this happens. Everyone is going to have secrets, and not everyone is going to be an upstanding individual, especially people in the government. People lie all the time, with the severity being different, but there's nothing preventing people from it, so humans will always lie.

Other countries have done horrible stuff too, but simply because the things about the US have been revealed, everyone is rallying for him and attacking us. Because right now, the world's secrecy is in imbalance. A bunch of US secrets have been revealed, but nobody else is standing up to reveal information about themselves. That lets the entire world paint us as a scapegoat, as a group of horrible people, simply because our government did some bad things, like everyone else. Not to mention, countries are finding their feelings hurt due to lies other countries have made about them.

Imagine you're in a classroom, and someone walks into class and tells everyone there who you've masturbated to, or that you lied to your ex girlfriend about loving her just to get her in bed, or some other personal secret. You're going to be laughed at and ridiculed, as well as experience some backlash, but nobody else is going to stand up to offer information about themselves, leaving you in poor isolation, clutching to try and explain yourself for things you've done wrong in the past that you couldn't change.[/COLOR]

If my country did horrible deads I would be happy knowing about it. Would I be angry at them, maybe. If they were at least honest about committing wrongs, I would have a lot more respect for them. I understand we all make mistakes as humans. But shoving things under the carpet as a government is not what needs to happen. As someone said before. It is important to know what one is fighting for, I would not want to die for the lies of my country. If a system outside the government is needed to expose truths, then so be it. Is it correct for us as humans to judge that system? We have checks and balances in our own government and they do not work quite as well as we would hope. I argue that governments in general cannot be trusted fully in any country. However, we should not be angry that things are exposed. It should make the country try harder to be more honest. I do not seek perfection, but I seek improvement of our government.

Back to my book burning topic. If the government makes it illegal to read the banned books being burned because they reveal corruptions in the government. What does that show? It shows that the government wants to control information and censor information they see as dangerous. If wikileaks were to reveal the same information as these burned books, then there really is no difference. Hillary Clinton trying to get personal information about U.N. Members was very odd. To me, that's not very ethical and it's a world issue. NOT an issue just soley about the United States. So, the world should have a right to know if it is published. Are you telling me we should not know about this? Also, what if the U.S. started to secretly make people "disappear" who did not follow the ideals wanted in the country. Similar to how China was in the past and Russia. If wikileaks published that, is it okay? By your statement it is not okay, because we do not need to know about it.

Also, many people have said that he is treasonous, but that does not apply to him because he is not a United States citizen... Just wanted to point that out.

"Russia: Julian Assange should be awarded Nobel peace prize"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec...eace-prize

Apperently they forgot the "peace" part of the prize when it'll probably cause war.

I laugh at whoever said Julian Assange, an Australian, has a European complex against the US.

I see people making comments claiming things like Wikileaks' sole purpose is to make the US look bad etc, but you people fail to realize that Wikileaks has been up and running for years exposing secrets in many different nations. It wasn't until the US got embarrassed with these leaks that suddenly everyone knows about Wikileaks and it's some evil organization. Go figure.

I laugh at whoever said Julian Assange, an Australian, has a European complex against the US.

I see people making comments claiming things like Wikileaks' sole purpose is to make the US look bad etc, but you people fail to realize that Wikileaks has been up and running for years exposing secrets in many different nations. It wasn't until the US got embarrassed with these leaks that suddenly everyone knows about Wikileaks and it's some evil organization. Go figure.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^