Warrior Final Attack after Big Bang

Unlike you, I've actually played these classes with Final Attack, and it doesn't provide a significant or noticeable bonus in training.

Apparently, after BB, it no longer affects either your mobility or the rate at which you can spam attacks.
So regardless of whether you're running around Slash Blasting mushies, or standing still spamming Intrepid Slash at HT, whatever tiny damage bonus FA gives is welcome.

The question that remains is whether there is a place to put those SP that will be more beneficial.

Apparently, after BB, it no longer affects either your mobility or the rate at which you can spam attacks.
So regardless of whether you're running around Slash Blasting mushies, or standing still spamming Intrepid Slash at HT, whatever tiny damage bonus FA gives is welcome.

The question that remains is whether there is a place to put those SP that will be more beneficial.

There isn't a place to put them otherwise. I'm not telling people to put them somewhere otherwise. I'm saying that Final Attack does not give a significant bonus damage to training. It's not pineappleing hard to understand. It just simply doesn't.

And no, Pre-Big Bang experience is not the same as Post-Big Bang experience so shut the pineapple up about that.

And no, Pre-Big Bang experience is not the same as Post-Big Bang experience so shut the pineapple up about that.

I'm gonna have to second this, albeit not in the tone it was said.

Unlike you, I've actually played these classes with Final Attack, and it doesn't provide a significant or noticeable bonus in training.

It serves as a slight annoyance actually, cause 40% of the time it immediately unstuns one of Coma/Shout's targets, and it's doing so little damage that the 25% damage bonus on stunned targets is basically meaningless.

I mean, you could have a 187.5% FA, or you could have a 300%x2 Brandish.

I'm not sure where the threshold is that FA actually adds less damage than doing 25% extra on the next hit, but it was noticeable when I was training my Crusader/Hero.

And of course it means the monster can use its magic attack sooner. Why they gave Crusaders interruptible stun, I'm not sure. It makes Chance Attack pretty useless soloing.

At least Charge Blow still has perfect Stun.

Just to clarify.
Does Post-BB FA activate with all attacks? Or still just SB/PS?

Just to clarify.
Does Post-BB FA activate with all attacks? Or still just SB/PS?

full list
http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=28941
in short - every weapon based attack does it. meaning not shout / roar /HH

I'm liking it on my Paladin's Blast, since it seems to also give me slightly longer range by hitting outside the hitbox by a tiny bit.

Some additional details which i am not sure have been said or not, it can critical and it can hit a different monster than your first target.

i've netted two kills with one powerstrike because of it.

FA has been fairly active for me when mobbing. It's nice to have it as an attack with my Explorer Critical Ring too. I actually had Final Attack today perform the assuming impossible hit. An actual Instant-Death Strike. Now that's what I call a real Final Attack. It's worth building though as it can be that last hit that kills a monster, and it does get affected by elemental charges apparently so it can do better than 150% damage or it can activate special effects like Instant-Death at random.

I don't know about you Joe, but even if FA isn't perfect, the extra hits and damage that has the possibility of occurring and even reoccurring make it worth it. It's also funny to see Rush get an extra zap at the end of the lunge attack as well.

I actually placed some points into Ground Shock to try it out... and I'm less than impressed as it really doesn't strike vertically any better than other skills I have to do, plus the range somehow isn't too good either as it was actually not even hitting a few times on monsters that should have been in range of it. Not only that it was kind of slow and some of the faster monsters I tried it on were quick enough to move away before the initial strike could occur. Slash Blast and Power Strike were a bit faster to the hitting than GS too and the damage seems no better really. It's seemingly better to actually stick to SB and PS w/ FA and the get CB at 3rd job to replace them both till you get ACB and Blast later on.

I actually placed some points into Ground Shock to try it out... and I'm less than impressed as it really doesn't strike vertically any better than other skills I have to do, plus the range somehow isn't too good either as it was actually not even hitting a few times on monsters that should have been in range of it. Not only that it was kind of slow and some of the faster monsters I tried it on were quick enough to move away before the initial strike could occur. Slash Blast and Power Strike were a bit faster to the hitting than GS too and the damage seems no better really. It's seemingly better to actually stick to SB and PS w/ FA and the get CB at 3rd job to replace them both till you get ACB and Blast later on.

Are you bull shitting me? Ground Smash is not slower than Slash Blast or Power Strike. It is impossible for a monster to "move out of range" after you use it. It's an area of effect skill. Monsters can move out of Slash Blast and Power Strike range because it requires your sword to move to hit them. Ground Smash does not. You're imagining things.

And stop stating things as if I'm telling people to not max Final Attack.

Are you bull shitting me? Ground Smash is not slower than Slash Blast or Power Strike. It is impossible for a monster to "move out of range" after you use it. It's an area of effect skill. Monsters can move out of Slash Blast and Power Strike range because it requires your sword to move to hit them. Ground Smash does not. You're imagining things.

And stop stating things as if I'm telling people to not max Final Attack.

i've been hating on ground smash since i first got the specs.

It sucks in practice and in theory. Sb can hit just as far or further. the way warriors train having a skill that goes a set range is really not that great. Sbs new starting range is laughably easy to hit with.

Joe would you please make up your mind on what you say is worthless and not? You said in another post FA was crap because it had a preset range and it's activation time was too far fetched to be useful. You've been twisting the argument of FA's usefulness since last week. Now you try to say it's useful or it's additional effect is neither good or bad? Stop twisting and say if FA is useful or not. So Joe is FA useful, yes or no? Simple question, simple answer, no descriptive, analytical, or rebuttal dialog needed. Yes or No.

Joe would you please make up your mind on what you say is worthless and not? You said in another post FA was crap because it had a preset range and it's activation time was too far fetched to be useful. You've been twisting the argument of FA's usefulness since last week. Now you try to say it's useful or it's additional effect is neither good or bad? Stop twisting and say if FA is useful or not. So Joe is FA useful, yes or no? Simple question, simple answer, no descriptive, analytical, or rebuttal dialog needed. Yes or No.

I've always stated that it has no practical or significant use in training. I never said it was crap because it had a preset range. I stated that it had a preset range. I never said it was crap because its activation time was too long. I said it has activation time.

So I'm training with my Paladin postBB and FA is the deciding factor to whether I 2HKO monsters or 3HKO them.

I actually placed some points into Ground Shock to try it out... and I'm less than impressed as it really doesn't strike vertically any better than other skills I have to do, plus the range somehow isn't too good either as it was actually not even hitting a few times on monsters that should have been in range of it. Not only that it was kind of slow and some of the faster monsters I tried it on were quick enough to move away before the initial strike could occur. Slash Blast and Power Strike were a bit faster to the hitting than GS too and the damage seems no better really. It's seemingly better to actually stick to SB and PS w/ FA and the get CB at 3rd job to replace them both till you get ACB and Blast later on.

CB and GS have the same range, speed and # of targets... can't really say one sucks based on those criteria and not the other.

I find Final Attack useful myself as well. The additional attack at random with any attack skill does work wonders. Plus the fact I use a Critical Ring means I have one extra chance of an insta-kill attack popping up, which did actually happen. I also noticed something else new... that nobody mentioned from the Tespia content... unless this was a last minute addition and change...

Final Attack doesn't have a preset targeting system when used against mobs of monsters. It actually randomly adds an extra attack to a monster at complete random in groups. I did a small 5 monster mob of Miner Coolies in the Dead Mine earlier and it would hit each monster in the group randomly instead of as previous where it added an extra style of attack. Some monsters got extra hits, some didn't, sometimes all would get hit. There also was no dissipation of attack either by the old % of monsters in the line. Monsters that got hit actually got the full strength of FA + the elemental charge added.

Ground Smash sadly ended up in my SP throw away pile and here's why... I actually tested the usefulness of Power Strike and Slash Blast against mob numbers... there are instances of single monsters or monsters in groups of 4 or more far more commonly now since most of the maps are now packed with monsters. There are few places anymore where you get small 2 ~ 3 mobs in a single setting for GS to be practical. I actually have seen more instances for single attacks out of that as well. GS looks nice on paper but it's usefulness is sadly limited due to monster group numbers in areas that are more suited to Slash Blast or Power Strike style attacks. GS more or less could be useful as a 3rd attack option to perform clean up attacks on small close mobs but nothing serious such as slashing through a sizable horde or that single mini-boss/boss you might run into.

that nobody mentioned from the Tespia content... unless this was a last minute addition and change...

Final Attack doesn't have a preset targeting system when used against mobs of monsters. It actually randomly adds an extra attack to a monster at complete random in groups. I did a small 5 monster mob of Miner Coolies in the Dead Mine earlier and it would hit each monster in the group randomly instead of as previous where it added an extra style of attack. Some monsters got extra hits, some didn't, sometimes all would get hit. There also was no dissipation of attack either by the old % of monsters in the line. Monsters that got hit actually got the full strength of FA + the elemental charge added.

That was definitely mentioned by me when discussing FA. And yes it was in Tespia. I found it more annoying than useful, cause it aggros without stunning or doing enough damage to kill the monster.


Could you name specific maps where larger mobs show up? I've only really been at 1st and 4th job areas so far, and both seemed to be limited to 1-3 mobs within range of attacking at a time.

Do I really have to?

Well I'm playing a 2nd job char and so far all I get are mobs of 2-3 so yeah it'd be helpful :x