IBM Conspiracy V2 - Ice Demon, Big Bang and Mana Reflection

IBM Conspiracy Version 2

If you hate alot text, reasoning and thinking, please hit the back button now. Thank you.

Wow...when was the last time I've posted on Southperry...good memories.
I must say, I do visit many threads every day, but I havn't had anything post-worthy for a while.
Also, I've seen this Magician sub-forum be completely dead, but I might as well give this place another shot.
So without further do, enjoy the mostly copy-paste of my thread for discussion here.

*Note, when I say [Credit(s) to the (P)lace], it's referring to Dusk here on SP. He did a great job. Anyways, back to the thread.

If anyone is wondering how this became version 2, you could check out the old thread at http://sleepywood.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1538033 *if this is not allowed on SP, please remove it, but it's just a reference link*,
which the original IBM Conspiracy was Infinity, Big Bang and Mana Reflection Pre-BigBang Patch.

So we all know big bang is coming very soon, and there has been but one thing on my mind over the past weeks: what the hell to put skill points into in 4th job as a 4th job Ice/Lightning Magician. This thread can also be associated with Fire/Poison mages when replacing Ice Demon with Fire demon as well, though the logic is different (I'll get it to it later on), but I like the [IBM] title, so leave me alone =[.

As a 4th job mage, if you max out every single skill, there will be 12 skill points used too much.
Meaning, 11 skill points must be excluded from the 4th job build somewhere (leaving Maple Warrior at 29 is the easiest and always used method, so there's why 12 went to 11).
Here is where our adventure begins.

Let's being with an introduction of the three skills in question Post-Bigbang patch [Credit(S) to the (P)lace]:

Ice Demon
1 MP 15; 173% damage on up to 2 enemies, 5 seconds of 42% damage per second, 5 seconds of increased ice damage.
2 MP 15; 176% damage on up to 2 enemies, 5 seconds of 44% damage per second, 5 seconds of increased ice damage.
3 MP 17; 179% damage on up to 2 enemies, 5 seconds of 46% damage per second, 5 seconds of increased ice damage.
4 MP 17; 182% damage on up to 2 enemies, 5 seconds of 48% damage per second, 5 seconds of increased ice damage.
5 MP 17; 185% damage on up to 2 enemies, 5 seconds of 50% damage per second, 5 seconds of increased ice damage.
6 MP 19; 188% damage on up to 2 enemies, 5 seconds of 52% damage per second, 5 seconds of increased ice damage.
7 MP 19; 191% damage on up to 2 enemies, 5 seconds of 54% damage per second, 5 seconds of increased ice damage.
8 MP 19; 194% damage on up to 3 enemies, 5 seconds of 56% damage per second, 5 seconds of increased ice damage.
9 MP 21; 197% damage on up to 3 enemies, 5 seconds of 58% damage per second, 5 seconds of increased ice damage.
10 MP 21; 200% damage on up to 3 enemies, 5 seconds of 60% damage per second, 5 seconds of increased ice damage.
11 MP 21; 203% damage on up to 3 enemies, 10 seconds of 62% damage per second, 10 seconds of increased ice damage.
12 MP 23; 206% damage on up to 3 enemies, 10 seconds of 64% damage per second, 10 seconds of increased ice damage.
13 MP 23; 209% damage on up to 3 enemies, 10 seconds of 66% damage per second, 10 seconds of increased ice damage.
14 MP 23; 212% damage on up to 3 enemies, 10 seconds of 68% damage per second, 10 seconds of increased ice damage.
15 MP 25; 215% damage on up to 4 enemies, 10 seconds of 70% damage per second, 10 seconds of increased ice damage.
16 MP 25; 218% damage on up to 4 enemies, 10 seconds of 72% damage per second, 10 seconds of increased ice damage.
17 MP 25; 221% damage on up to 4 enemies, 10 seconds of 74% damage per second, 10 seconds of increased ice damage.
18 MP 27; 224% damage on up to 4 enemies, 10 seconds of 76% damage per second, 10 seconds of increased ice damage.
19 MP 27; 227% damage on up to 4 enemies, 10 seconds of 78% damage per second, 10 seconds of increased ice damage.
20 MP 27; 230% damage on up to 4 enemies, 10 seconds of 80% damage per second, 10 seconds of increased ice damage.
21 MP 29; 233% damage on up to 4 enemies, 15 seconds of 82% damage per second, 15 seconds of increased ice damage.
22 MP 29; 236% damage on up to 5 enemies, 15 seconds of 84% damage per second, 15 seconds of increased ice damage.
23 MP 29; 239% damage on up to 5 enemies, 15 seconds of 86% damage per second, 15 seconds of increased ice damage.
24 MP 31; 242% damage on up to 5 enemies, 15 seconds of 88% damage per second, 15 seconds of increased ice damage.
25 MP 31; 245% damage on up to 5 enemies, 15 seconds of 90% damage per second, 15 seconds of increased ice damage.
26 MP 31; 248% damage on up to 5 enemies, 15 seconds of 92% damage per second, 15 seconds of increased ice damage.
27 MP 33; 251% damage on up to 5 enemies, 15 seconds of 94% damage per second, 15 seconds of increased ice damage.
28 MP 33; 254% damage on up to 5 enemies, 15 seconds of 96% damage per second, 15 seconds of increased ice damage.
29 MP 33; 257% damage on up to 6 enemies, 15 seconds of 98% damage per second, 15 seconds of increased ice damage.
30 MP 35; 260% damage on up to 6 enemies, 15 seconds of 100% damage per second, 15 seconds of increased ice damage.
31 MP 35; 263% damage on up to 6 enemies, 20 seconds of 102% damage per second, 20 seconds of increased ice damage.
32 MP 35; 266% damage on up to 6 enemies, 20 seconds of 104% damage per second, 20 seconds of increased ice damage.

Big Bang
1 MP 25; attack for 232% damage 5 times
2 MP 25; attack for 234% damage 5 times
3 MP 25; attack for 236% damage 5 times
4 MP 25; attack for 238% damage 5 times
5 MP 25; attack for 240% damage 5 times
6 MP 30; attack for 242% damage 5 times
7 MP 30; attack for 244% damage 5 times
8 MP 30; attack for 246% damage 5 times
9 MP 30; attack for 248% damage 5 times
10 MP 30; attack for 250% damage 5 times
11 MP 30; attack for 252% damage 5 times
12 MP 35; attack for 254% damage 5 times
13 MP 35; attack for 256% damage 5 times
14 MP 35; attack for 258% damage 5 times
15 MP 35; attack for 260% damage 5 times
16 MP 35; attack for 262% damage 5 times
17 MP 35; attack for 264% damage 5 times
18 MP 40; attack for 266% damage 5 times
19 MP 40; attack for 268% damage 5 times
20 MP 40; attack for 270% damage 5 times
21 MP 40; attack for 272% damage 5 times
22 MP 40; attack for 274% damage 5 times
23 MP 40; attack for 276% damage 5 times
24 MP 45; attack for 278% damage 5 times
25 MP 45; attack for 280% damage 5 times
26 MP 45; attack for 282% damage 5 times
27 MP 45; attack for 284% damage 5 times
28 MP 45; attack for 286% damage 5 times
29 MP 45; attack for 288% damage 5 times
30 MP 50; attack for 290% damage 5 times
31 MP 50; attack for 292% damage 5 times
32 MP 50; attack for 294% damage 5 times

Mana Reflection
1 MP 21; for 10 seconds, 31% chance of reflecting 130% of damage received
2 MP 22; for 20 seconds, 32% chance of reflecting 160% of damage received
3 MP 23; for 30 seconds, 33% chance of reflecting 190% of damage received
4 MP 24; for 40 seconds, 34% chance of reflecting 220% of damage received
5 MP 25; for 50 seconds, 35% chance of reflecting 250% of damage received
6 MP 26; for 60 seconds, 36% chance of reflecting 280% of damage received
7 MP 27; for 70 seconds, 37% chance of reflecting 310% of damage received
8 MP 28; for 80 seconds, 38% chance of reflecting 340% of damage received
9 MP 29; for 90 seconds, 39% chance of reflecting 370% of damage received
10 MP 30; for 100 seconds, 40% chance of reflecting 400% of damage received
11 MP 31; for 110 seconds, 41% chance of reflecting 430% of damage received
12 MP 32; for 120 seconds, 42% chance of reflecting 460% of damage received
13 MP 33; for 130 seconds, 43% chance of reflecting 490% of damage received
14 MP 34; for 140 seconds, 44% chance of reflecting 520% of damage received
15 MP 35; for 150 seconds, 45% chance of reflecting 550% of damage received
16 MP 36; for 160 seconds, 46% chance of reflecting 580% of damage received
17 MP 37; for 170 seconds, 47% chance of reflecting 610% of damage received
18 MP 38; for 180 seconds, 48% chance of reflecting 640% of damage received
19 MP 39; for 190 seconds, 49% chance of reflecting 670% of damage received
20 MP 40; for 200 seconds, 50% chance of reflecting 700% of damage received
21 MP 41; for 210 seconds, 51% chance of reflecting 730% of damage received
22 MP 42; for 220 seconds, 52% chance of reflecting 760% of damage received
23 MP 43; for 230 seconds, 53% chance of reflecting 790% of damage received
24 MP 44; for 240 seconds, 54% chance of reflecting 820% of damage received
25 MP 45; for 250 seconds, 55% chance of reflecting 850% of damage received
26 MP 46; for 260 seconds, 56% chance of reflecting 880% of damage received
27 MP 47; for 270 seconds, 57% chance of reflecting 910% of damage received
28 MP 48; for 280 seconds, 58% chance of reflecting 940% of damage received
29 MP 49; for 290 seconds, 59% chance of reflecting 970% of damage received
30 MP 50; for 300 seconds, 60% chance of reflecting 1000% of damage received
31 MP 51; for 310 seconds, 61% chance of reflecting 1030% of damage received
32 MP 52; for 320 seconds, 62% chance of reflecting 1060% of damage received

So there we have our three lovely skills. Each of them having its own unique way of being a fine addition to the mage skill-book.
Let's start by examining why each skill is useful.

Note: When I say COd, I mean Combat Ordered, which gives each 4th job skill +2, which makes them go to lvl 32 at max.


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Ice Demon

Ice Demon is not really an I/L's spam worthy attack. Why? For now, let us assume the level 30 case.

30 MP 35; 260% damage on up to 6 enemies, 15 seconds of 100% damage per second, 15 seconds of increased ice damage.

Ice Demon does 260% damage up to 6 enemies, while Chain Lightning does 740% Damage.
Assume a mob is ice weak. Ice demon will do 390% damage to the mobs. Already, Chain Lightning beat this.
Assume a mob is ice weak and the mage has an ice elemental wand/staff. The damage goes from 520% to 520*1.25 = 650%. Again, CL beats this.
Add in a lightning staff with CL, and Ice Demon looks crappy as hell.
Assume a mob is being attacked. When Ice Demon is spammed, the DoT of 100% per second will not click in. Why?
When Ice Demon is spammed, every time the skill hits a monster, it is as if the monster is restarting the DoT timer on it, therefore, no DoT comes out of it.

How does Ice Demon compare to Chain Lightning in terms of more monsters being attacked at once?
Well, Ice Demon's damage percentage is the same throughout all monsters, whereas Chain Lightning loses 10% per every monster jump.
For 3 monsters, Ice Demon will do 260%*3 = 780% Damage.
For 3 monsters, Chain Lightning will do 740% + 666% + 599% = 2005%.
For 3 monsters ice weak, Ice Demon will do 1170%. Again, Ice demon fails to bring out anything useful.

It seems that the only purpose of Ice Demon would be it's DoT factor, which does 100% damage per sec for a set amount of time after executing and hitting.
This DoT works on mobs and bosses, so we can't just set aside this little fun addition.

Due to blizzard having a cool-down, it can be said that a monster cannot be purely DoT'd by one mage constantly by just blizzard alone.

30 MP 380; 1400% damage on up to 15 targets, 10 seconds of 205% damage per second, 30 second cool-down

When blizzard hits, a monster will receive 10 seconds of 205% DoT. That's nice, but afterward, we have to wait 27-30 seconds before executing again.
This is where Ice Demon falls into play.
When it comes to DPS, DoT definitely is a great factor to take into account.
During those 12-15 seconds we have to wait for blizzard again, Ice Demon can be used once on any monster (mob or boss) and the DoT will play its part.
Also, when it comes to 1v1 or similar, it is inefficient to think of using blizzard every time it is castable just for its 10 seconds of DoT, because in the time of casting, 3ish CL hits would have been wasted.
Therefore, Ice Demon plays more parts in the role of an I/L as a DoT Contributor.


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Big Bang

Big Bang went through a pretty nifty update, however, it's potential is pretty wicked when given the correct scenarios. Let us look.

30 MP 50; attack for 290% damage 5 times

This means that when Big Bang is charged, it will execute 1450% damage to one to 5 monsters/bosses. Damage does not fall due to multiple monsters/bosses.
Big Bang usually executes to it's fullest around the time it take for 2 1/2 CLs to execute.
2 1/2 CLs is 740*2.5 = 1850%. So far, CL seems to win.
Assume 1 Monsters. Big Bang does 1450% whereas 2 1/2 CLs would do 1850%. CL wins.
Assume 2 monsters. Big Bang does 2900% whereas 2 1/2 CLs would do 1850% + 666*2.5 = 1850% + 1665% = 3515%. CL still wins.
Assume 3 monsters. BB = 3350% whereas 2 2 1/2 CLs = 1850% + 1665% + 1498% = 5013%.
Assume 4 monsters. BB = 4800% versus 5013%
Assume 5 monsters. BB = 6250% versus 5013% (Big bang excelled! But what an iffy situation =/)
Assume 6 monsters. BB = 7700% versus 5013% (woot)

It would seem by just this data that Big Bang is pretty unlikely to be used anywhere. However, this would be a nice time to point out something.

All classes have a damage cap (excluding things like Snipe), so that would mean a mage/bishop is damage capped at 999,999 damage. Oh no!
Now with infinity, getting CL to hit 999,999 is pretty simple, given the right amount of gear and levels.

Assume the ultimate case: CL hits 999,999 always naturally (this is possible).
Assume 1 monsters: CL hits 999,999 Damage AT MAXIMUM.
Assume 2 monsters: CL hits 999,999 + 899,999 = 1,899,998 Damage AT MAXIMUM.
Assume 3 monsters: CL hits 999,999 + 899,999 + 809,999 = 2,709,997 Damage AT MAXIMUM.
Fun stuff, right?

Here's where I WANT to take a stand with Big Bang as being a useful skill. At the time where CL becomes maxed out, there is no other way for a mage to excel the damage cap other than using the skill Big Bang.
CL is capped, but capping Big Bang is more likely impossible, therefore, adds more damage to the DPS. Let us go on.

Assume the ultimate case for CL: CL hits 999,999 always naturally (this is, once again, possible)
Math time first: 740% * X = 999,999. 999,999/740% = 999,999/7.4 = 135,135. This means that 100% damage from the 999,999 CL is 135,135.
Math time second: Big bang does 290% damage 5 times. 135,135 * 2.9 = 391,891 damage. Big bang hits 5 times, so 391,891 * 5 = 1,959,457.
Math time third: Remember, Big bang has to be charged up first, which is around the time 2 2 1/2 CLs can get through. CL damage 999,999 * 2.5 = 2,499,999
Math final: BB = 1,959,457 versus CL = 2,499,999. CL wins this round.

Now the fun part.

We assumed that our damage was 999,999 with CL and that's it. Remember that CL does 740% damage. This does not mean that 999,999 is our only math subject.
To make it easier to see what I mean, imagine that an I/L was doing 999,999 damages with CL without infinity.
Add infinity now. What happens? Nothing. CL is still capped at 999,999, but your damage range is increasing by the seconds.
Add Big Bang. What happens? Big bang does more and more damage as more infinity is being applied.
Let's go back to our example above.

BB = 1,959,457 versus CL = 2,499,999
Imagine infinity is at its peak (non COd), so all damage is doubled.
BB = 3,918,914 versus CL = 2,499,999. For once, we see big bang being MORE EFFICIENT TO USE than CL!

Let's just see when this point will happen. Again, assuming that our damage JUST HITS 999,999 with one CL for now.

Infinity 100%: BB = 1,959,457 versus CL = 2,499,999
Infinity 110%: BB = 2,155,402
Infinity 120%: BB = 2,351,348
Infinity 130%: BB = 2,547,294
Infinity 140%: BB = 2,743,239
Infinity 150%: BB = 2,939,185
Infinity 160%: BB = 3,135,131
Infinity 170%: BB = 3,331,076
Infinity 180%: BB = 3,527,022
Infinity 190%: BB = 3,722,968
Infinity 200%: BB = 3,918,914
Infinity 210% (COd): BB = 4,114,859
Infinity 210% (COd) + Dark Aura 32 with Super body (COd): 6,583,775 (I just added Dark Aura with SB, which should give 60% total damage if I'm right).

Strangely, I might have contradicted myself and actually think that Big Bang could hit the 999,999 marks with each hit...
Though I still am iffy on that part, let's look at it.
999,999 * 5 hits = 4,999,995 damage.
BB = 5m versus CL = 2.5m for a single target. BB excelled by twice the value at it's most prime state.

Either way, the gun is JUMPED with Big Bang as infinity increases damage more and more.
And the best part?
We only using the damage calculated from a 999,999 hit from CL!
We figured that from that 999,999 damage, 100% of that damage is 135,135 and did the calculations for Big Bang around that.
Now if a mage could hit the 999,999 damage cap, that means that they could have done even MORE damage at that time, but were capped.
Also, although CL does have a higher critical chance, Big Bang offers a slight critical chance at each of it's 5 hits!
Just pulling off 2 criticals at once would exceed CL beyond damage cap.

Basically, with the new Infinity, Big bang actually serves a purpose as a main attacking skill.
Add in the fact that it can mob up to 5 monsters without losing damage...and the possibility is nuts. Zak arms, HT parts, CWKPQ, etc.


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Mana Reflection

Mana Reflection is only efficient as a pick me up on the DPS....er.

30 MP 50; for 300 seconds, 60% chance of reflecting 1000% of damage received

Instead of 200% like pre-BB, it is changed to give back 1000% at the chance of 60% per magical hit.
Mana Reflect does NOT reduce damage when reflected.
The damage reflected back is the damage taken to HP and MP from any normal attack * 1000.
When 1/1d, the damage reflected back is the HP damage taken * 1000.

Big Bang Patch provides this skill to be semi useful...yet suffers from certain things.
Assume a mage has 6001 HP and 24,000 MP. Honestly, 6001 seems to be a fair value to consider with HB, though the 24k is for math purposes.
The most damage this mage could take and like is 6000*5 = 30,000 damage. Sounds like fun.
30,000 * 1000% reflected back = 300,000 damage! Woot! 300,000 damage reflected at a 60% chance when hit by a magical attack!
Now honestly, what monster will do 30,000 magical damage to a mage without it being 1/1? None and probably will be none.

Let's look more realistically.
A mage with 6001 Hp and 24,000 MP.
Atm, PB and the visitor lvl 120 PQ does the most magical damage, which is around 17-18k damage.
Assume 18k damage taken. 18,000 * 1000% = 180,000 damage. Not bad not bad.
Now here comes the worst part. Magical Defense plays a major role in mages/bishops now, as well as other classes if you wanna go down that route.
A level 200 mage with a few potential items would have maybe 2000+ magical defense.
Assume magical defense 2000 and some Pink Bean Damage does 18000 magical.
According to the new defense formula [credit(S) to the (P)lace], the damage taken would be 14040 or around there at max.
14,040 * 1000% = 140,400 damage reflected at a 60% chance whenever the user is hit by the attack.
The higher the magical defense, the less max damage the skill will do.
Assume 3500 magical defense (some mage has lots of potential). From 18000 max -> 12780 max. 12,780 * 1000% = 127,800 damage at max at 60% chance of attack.

Now, how often will a 18,000 damage attack hit a mage? There are factors to calculate in, such as invincibility frame time after getting hit, the chance of the attack actually hitting the mage (as opposed to other attacks hitting), and then there's the dreadful 60% chance to reflect it back.

Either way, assume the 18,000 damage turning into 14,000 which reflects 140,000. This seems like a fair damage and defense and damage reflected back for most.
Everyone has 1 second of invincibility after getting hit, so they can get hit 30 times in a minute at BEST. The chance of that one attack constantly hitting is small, but pretend like there's some map effect that constantly gives you this damage (*shrug, never will happen but lets see where this goes).
140,000 * 30 = 420,000 damage will be reflected back to a single target, assuming hit and reflected every time on the exact second in 1 minute.
Now let's calculate the 60% chance of it activating.
420,000 * 0.6 = 2,520,000 damage, again, to a single target, assuming hit on the exact second, accounting for the 60% chance rate.
Now there the THAT ATTACK WONT ALWAYS HIT YOU AND SOME OTHER CRAP ATTACKS WILL HIT INSTEAD. Let's assume that 50% of the time that hard hitter hits the mage.
252,000 * .5 = 1,210,000 damage reflected in 1 minute.
For arguments sake, Infinity has a cool-down of 3 minutes (180 seconds), while can be executed for 60 seconds with magic mastery (all non COd).
That means that one must wait for 2 minutes (120 seconds) before using infinity again.
So because of that, let's calculate mana reflection for 3 minutes.
1,210,000 * 3 = 3,630,000 damage in 3 minutes at BEST and with medium magical defense.

So we have this magical number 3,630,000 damage in 3 minutes due to mana reflection level 30.
Is that really good as a DPS adder as opposed to Big Bang or Ice Demon?


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The IBM Conspiracy

Took long enough? Let's get down to it.

Going backwards:
Mana Reflection to a decent defensed mage will do around 3,630,000 damage realistically max (atm).
Big Bang can excel CL by a large amount given the right amount of gear, potential, and adding in infinity. At max, the damage can excel by 2,500,000 damage.
Realistically, maybe excel by 1,000,000 or more. Also, in the excel case, infinity would have to be taken in (40 seconds with 3 min cool-down, non COd).
While Mana Reflection adds 3,630,000 damage in 3 minutes, Big bang just executed twice in that 3 minutes (under infinity) can overpower it.
Ice demon is not a spammable attack, but it does add DoT, which no other I/L skill can do besides blizzard, but that comes with a cool-down and cast time cost.

For Fire mages, the answer becomes quick and obviously short. Fire demon does 160% DoT for 15 seconds. Mist does 160% DoT for 15 seconds. Fire Mages can leave Fire Demon at lvl 19 and max everything else. Good game to fire mages.

So this problem is strictly for Ice Mages. (Bishops, I have not gone into detail, though they could easily lower Holy Shield or Genesis since that doesn't give DoT and still has a cool-down). Ice mages are screwed over atm with this IBM conspiracy.

Back to what I said in the very beginning, 11 skill points must be excluded from 4th job skills, whereas the rest can be maxed (or partially put in, but you get the idea, 11 points must go away somehow).

Mana Reflection gives only a small small amount of extra damage to a single target, compared to a Chain Lightning hit for example.
1 Chain Lightning hit could cover around 1 minutes of Mana reflection effective realistic max usage. Ouch at that thought...
Mana Reflection is at a 60% chance of activity of a magical attack.
The magical attack should be pretty high damaged, or else the reflection is pretty weak and non noticeable, even at the 1000%.
Not every magical attack that reflects good damage hits the character constantly, so the amount of times Mana Reflection reflects something useful is very low.
With combat orders, Mana Reflection only gets an addition 2% chance to activate and 60% more damage back from damage taken. From 14k, that's around 8400 only. Not significant enough.

Big Bang is mainly used when it can excel 2 1/2 CL hits, or when it comes to alot of mobs, due to its stupid charge time.
Under infinity, Big bang can excel Cl by up to 2.5m damage at POTENTIALLY MAX, and just above and beyond CL at other times.
Big bang has the normal critical chance, but offers 5 hits which could strike critical at any of the 5.
Big bang can mob up to 6 targets and not reduce damage over mobs/boss mobs.
With Combat Orders, Big Bang maxed receives even more damage percentage, increasing the gap between CL and BB under infinity and the right damage amounts.
The WORST PART about big bang as an I/L is that the element is lightning: the same as Chain Lightning.
F/P's Big Bang is fire, so they have more to play around with such as their Fire Demon making them fire weak, and then adding in Ifrit. Bishop's Big Bang is holy, but all their moves are holy so that means sense.
Having Big Bang be a lightning element as opposed to an Ice Element makes this move all the more unappealing the the naked eye, but I did my best to show its true form.
If I/L's Big Bang was an Ice element...add in Ice Demon and no one would think twice about not adding to Big Bang.
But because it isn't for I/Ls for now, we played around with the reasonable numbers.

Ice Demon is mainly used for its DoT and nothing really else.
Sure, it could make regular mob monsters weak to ice, but the only real ice moves I/Ls have is Ice Strike, Ice Demon and Blizzard.
Blizzard should usually already do 999,999 damage without being ice weak with the right gear,
Ice demon being spammed = no DoT,
and Ice Strike is just weak.
Therefore, the ability to make monsters Ice weak is meaningless, especially since Big Bang is lightning element instead of ice (which many think it SHOULD be seeing as f/p has fire).
So Ice Demon at this time is only used for DoT.

The question of the IBM Conspiracy for I/Ls becomes... ... ... ... ... where to take off the 11 skill points from the 4th job build?


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Final looks

CL will definitely never be lowered. It is the I/Ls main attacking skill.
Elquines cannot be lowered. It is the I/Ls main attacking summon.
Infinity should be kept high, as Combat orders can increase the duration and the efficiency of it.
Maple Warrior CAN BE REDUCED, but for soloers such as myself, we have to keep MW at 29.
Hero's Will is a personal choice, and with combat orders will only have a 5 minute cool down, providing some form of usefulness at bosses.
Magic Mastery is a NO-NO. DO NOT THINK ABOUT LOWERING IT.
Blizzard is at its best at lvl 30 with a 30 sec cool-down and 10 sec DoT. This skill is valuable for multi-bosses like Zak Arms and Horntail.

IBM is left.

Ice Demon
19 MP 27; 227% damage on up to 4 enemies, 10 seconds of 78% damage per second, 10 seconds of increased ice damage.
30 MP 35; 260% damage on up to 6 enemies, 15 seconds of 100% damage per second, 15 seconds of increased ice damage.
32 MP 35; 266% damage on up to 6 enemies, 20 seconds of 104% damage per second, 20 seconds of increased ice damage.

Big Bang
19 MP 40; attack for 268% damage 5 times
30 MP 50; attack for 290% damage 5 times
32 MP 50; attack for 294% damage 5 times

Mana Reflection
19 MP 39; for 190 seconds, 49% chance of reflecting 670% of damage received
30 MP 50; for 300 seconds, 60% chance of reflecting 1000% of damage received
32 MP 52; for 320 seconds, 62% chance of reflecting 1060% of damage received

Should a single skill go to level 19?
Should multiple skills be not maxed?
Is there alternatives?

The IBM Conspiracy V2 is underway!

This little thing aint half bad!
Got one thing I want to comment, and that is: "Maple Warrior CAN BE REDUCED, but for soloers such as myself, we have to keep MW at 29." Might wanna mention that it is mostly a matter of fundings to have MW past 19. MW30 will not drop from easier monsters post BB, and paying 800m-1,2b for a 50% chance at a mere 5% in base stat aint in everyones interest, especially not when compared to potential % boosts that factors in more than the base.

This little thing aint half bad!
Got one thing I want to comment, and that is: "Maple Warrior CAN BE REDUCED, but for soloers such as myself, we have to keep MW at 29." Might wanna mention that it is mostly a matter of fundings to have MW past 19. MW30 will not drop from easier monsters post BB, and paying 800m-1,2b for a mere 5% in base stat aint in everyones interest, especially not when compared to potential % boosts that factors in more than the base.

This is very true, but that would also have to imply that those people would not want to spend alot of meso/NX on potentialed gear, which in result would lower magical defense, in effect, upping the reflection of mana reflection by a tad bit more.

At the same time, if the extra 5% - 6% addition in INT is not in interest, then the damage cap would be of less interest to the mage, thereby making big bang pretty much less looked toward upon due to all the calculations based on damage cap of CL.

So this research from the highest standpoint means to say that a mage would completely overpower itself, meaning dishing out alot of dough =[, though I have tried to add in the bits where 'regular type' mages can see their viewpoint, where the MW 19 mages would fall into.

I'm mainly looking at a "End-Game Type" Mage calculations and beyond, in which can be supported both solo and partied, looking past the method of the Chain Lightning damage cap, or damage cap whatsoever.

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm attacking a post. I really am trying not to, but want to express my reasoning when possible. So sorry if I sound rude >.<!!!

Thank you for input, much appreciated ^-^.

No need to apologize! I understand you are comming from an end-game point of view, being 200 and all. I was just looking at it from an economical and efficient perspective. MW30 is not worth it until you have above awesome gear and enough mesos to risk a 50% fail.

Awesome thread. I love reading these kinds of threads. Anyway, for your situation, I guess the most logical choice is to have MW at lvl 19. Even though I'm not too thrilled about Mana Reflection due to it not adding much to DPM. Your assessment of the 3 skills is dead-on. I just love it.

I also have a post-BB question: How do we get combat orders? Is it hard to obtain? thx xD

get +2 to all skills hat potential
???
profit.

Marksmen are on the same boat with maxing skills, but at least it's easy to say which one will go unmaxed for us

For me, I'm pretty much set that BB will be maxed at some point. It being fire element goes nicely with the whole FD+BB+Meteor+Ifrit combo.
You have to consider for Big Bang that it can be used in some situations that would ignore its charge time, such as when going down a ladder to another platform or climbing a ladder. That way the charge time is negliged.

Regarding FD, I'll probably be going with it maxed since it combos nicely, though its damage is a bit pathetic (even losing to fire arrow when it comes to single target).

Mana Reflection seems just so poor, after BB defense has so much a bigger role on damages and from what I see everyone takes way less damage than now. Add that to the 60% chance and the fact that it doesn't count touch damage and it's a pretty easy choice, at least for me.

Not too surprised that no one caught on the Mana Reflection mistake I made with the wall of text.

When I was calculating the amount of damage MR would do in 1 minute, I multiplied it by 3 instead of 30, so values have changed.

MR would do 3,630,000 in 3 minutes now from the above example.

The new conclusion was that a minute of Mana Reflection would equal to 2 Big Bangs or 1 CL.

I chose i/l because I don't want to get hit so MR would be the one I pick to reduce. Also you should kill faster when you are at higher level meaning less chance to get hit. I could be wrong post BB though.

A second choice will probably be BB since it annoys players around you due to its animation esp. bossing in a party.

Interesting thread.

However,I would say that the argument that BB becomes more useful when CL maxes out will not apply to most of us mortals; you would need something like 4000 INT and 400 MA for that to happen (if i'm using the formulas correctly).

Also most of us have to find a lot more than 12 points to save.

For me:
Mana Reflection: A lot better than before, but still not much help. Zero points. 30 points saved.

Ice Demon. Still weak. Unless you put a lot of points in it, it only freezes 2 or 3 monsters. The damage over time effects will be too slow to be useful. Zero points, or 5 if you want summons. 25 or 30 points saved.

Maple warrior: Lvl 30 mastery book reputedly works a lot less often than 50%, and with my past luck on lvl 30 MB's (usually requiring 4 or 5), there is no way I want to spend ~5 billion mesos (assuming I could ever acquire so much) to gain extra 5%. 10 points saved.

Elquines/Ifrit: I never had much use for the fire summons. Too slow, too weak, annoying, added lag, aggrod monsters I wasn't ready for yet. Maybe the ice one will help more, but I doubt it. Max after everything else if I still have some points left.

Hero's Will. Seems useless? Ridiculous cooldown. The bull boss in Temple of TIme (iirc) and the bogus event pink bean are the only times I've faced the attack that this is used against, and they spammed it every few seconds. So.. what's the point?

Infinity: Was useless, now may be important. Unfortunately, the skill book is about impossible to get, since the only way to acquire it is by accompanying a warrior on his/her El Nath PQ. Unless you have a huge network of Warrior buddies, and just happen to catch one of them in the brief time between when they decide they need the skill after all and when they have already finished the quest, and they owe you a favour big time enough to allow a lolAM to tag along... good luck with that.
30 points saved.

Actually no problem, I'll have more points than I can use.

I've changed my mind. I'll keep fire demon at level 19, with 4 targets it's already good enough for making stuff fire weak when needed (I don't think it's worth making a mob fire-weak before hitting, I'd rather just keep using other attacks).

Mana reflection seems fun enough and it's a passive damage boost.

At above: It's not so hard to get infinity, there are always some for sale at the fm (karma'd skillbooks) and you can just pay attention to level 119 warriors through rankings. Most would gladly take an AM with them for the quest as ultimates make it much easier.

Elquines/Ifrit are passive damage boosts and they benefit of the instant reaction summons have, it's a passive addition to your DPS.

MW 30: though it may be very hard to get the book, with HT becoming easier after BB it should become more common. Also, you'd want to save those points for whenever you get the chance.


It's not about which skills are of little use, you just need to have 11 points off one skill at level 200, it's about which is THE most useless one.

You automatically receive Infinity post-BB. There is no way to not have it. The point of Fire/Ice Demon is to make mobs weak to Fire/Ice, respectively, and the most important aspect of both is the number of mobs that they affect.

You automatically receive Infinity post-BB. There is no way to not have it. The point of Fire/Ice Demon is to make mobs weak to Fire/Ice, respectively, and the most important aspect of both is the number of mobs that they affect.

About infinity. That will be nice, if they don't screw it up and make it so that an advancing AM gets the skill, but existing AMs cannot. Does the skill book come automatically, like how you get the maple warrior skill book when you advance, or will it be a basic skill that needs no skill book at all? Have to remember to have free use slot when BB comes, if the former is true.

About Ice demon. OK so it makes mobs weak to ice. So what then? Ice strike? No point doing ice demon, ice strike, ice strike, ice strike when chain lightning is so much stronger and faster.

Big Bang is Fire elemental for F/Ps, so we can take advantage of Fire Demon to set up 1.5x effective Big Bangs. I forgot BB was Lightning-elemental for I/Ls. I guess Ice Demon would be significantly less useful.

All skillbooks that are not obtained from Zakum will be automatically in your obtained list of skills when Big Bang comes out. There is no longer any purpose to having the Infinity skillbook.

Don't know if mentioned, but i don't think big bangs range is big enough to hit 5 arms.

Don't know if mentioned, but i don't think big bangs range is big enough to hit 5 arms.

It isn't.

The point of Fire/Ice Demon is to make mobs weak to Fire/Ice, respectively, and the most important aspect of both is the number of mobs that they affect.

I don't think it's really worth all the set-up to have a x1,5 multiplier on your BB damage. I'd rather just use BB then, unless it's mob that takes more than 1 big bang to kill AND comes often in mobs of 5 or 6.

I'm level 155, reading this, this build seems to make the most sense.


>108 Skill Points
>10 Magic Mastery
>98 Skill Points
>30 Chain Lightining
>68 Skill Points
>1 Blizzard
>67 Skill Points
>20 Maple Warrior
>47 Skill Points
>30 Big Bang
>17 Skill Points
>17 Ifinity

Mana Reflection/Ice Demon are useless, looks like instead of just using 1 Ice Skill we use 2 Lighting Skills, there was really no reason to not make Big Bang Ice :\.

I'm level 155, reading this, this build seems to make the most sense.


>108 Skill Points
>10 Magic Mastery
>98 Skill Points
>30 Chain Lightining
>68 Skill Points
>1 Blizzard
>67 Skill Points
>20 Maple Warrior
>47 Skill Points
>30 Big Bang
>17 Skill Points
>17 Ifinity

Mana Reflection/Ice Demon are useless, looks like instead of just using 1 Ice Skill we use 2 Lighting Skills, there was really no reason to not make Big Bang Ice :\.

I don't see why you should max big bang before infinity for bossing or putting in points
for ID/Elquines for training.

Big Bang should have been Ice but I guess Nexon figures that Lightning is a better choice...

Dunno, I will try this out first and see if it's any good, where does an I/L my level train post BB.