A Drk or a Hero Post-BB?

Beholder's Revenge falls into the Single-target lot, not mobbing.

Another slight disadvantage for Sacrifice is it being a single-hit skill, like the old Blast. While not many people should see this problem, it remains to be a problem.

With that in mind, the number is:
690%*160%*(60000/660) + 700%*60/5 = 108763.63% DPM
For Drk.
I haven't confirmed, but from what I can recall, Beholder Revenge does not trigger critical damage. So if you're going to plug Crit in, keep that in mind.

Personally, I don't think Drk is anywhere close to Hero in terms of 1v1 damage.

Brave Slash, Advanced Combo Attack and Enrage all can be raised by 2 levels with Combat Orders; for Drk, only Berserk can. (Although I just learned that lvl 32 Advanced Combo doesn't do anything, lulz)
That's a difference of:
Hero: From 200%*210%*160% = 672% to 200%*214%*164% = 701.92%, a 4.45% damage increase
Drk: From 160% to 162%, 1.25% damage increase.
Supposing Advanced Combo adds 10% dmg every orb, multiply by 10 orbs. I have no idea how Heroes work.

And I'm going to say it now, the only defense being PDRate has nothing to do with Sacrifice having to ignore it. Unless you have proven it somewhere, make it known or post it here.
Nevermind, it does indeed ignore monster's defense, most likely PDRate.

What makes you think that Heroes will outdo Drk's 'by far' in 1v1? cause if Sacrifice DOES ignore PDRate, Drk wouldn't be so weak..
So let me sum up all the thoughts and facts gathered up here and see which one will outdo the other?
(1v1 terms)

Dark Knight:
-Sacrifice 690% damage
-Ignoring monster's PDRate-(sacrifice ignoring defense)
-Affected by Dragon's Judgement- (sacrifice crit boost)
-Beholder's Revenge-700% damage attack every 5 seconds
-Speed of Sacrifice FASTER than BS
-Dark Force-60% damage boost

Hero:
- Brave Slash 210% damage x3=630% damage.
-Enrage- 60% overall damage boost (affects BS)
-100% Damage boost with all 10 orbs(correct me here if wrong) (affects BS)
-BS is SLOWER than Sacrifice

I don't really know how to calculate these so if anyone can do all these maths and check who's stronger It'll help me choosing..

EDIT: Just saw something that caught my attention and may be proof that Sacrifice ignores PDRate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsAsQj90zm4
Notice how when he Sacrifices his damage ranges from 500k-600k non crit and when his Beholder attacks (which is supposed to be stronger by 10% dmg) it only does 200k-300k.

EDIT: Just saw something that caught my attention and may be proof that Sacrifice ignores PDRate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsAsQj90zm4
Notice how when he Sacrifices his damage ranges from 500k-600k non crit and when his Beholder attacks (which is supposed to be stronger by 10% dmg) it only does 200k-300k.

Lol... I can't even tell if you're joking. Beholder Revenge does not trigger Berserk and criticals. But yes, judging by his 95k-ish Crusher, it does seem that Sacrifice ignores some sort of monster defense.

As for what makes me think Heroes are better:

Dark Knight:
-Ignoring monster's PDRate-(sacrifice ignoring defense)
-Affected by Dragon's Judgement- (sacrifice crit boost)
-Beholder's Revenge-700% damage attack every 5 seconds
-Speed of Sacrifice FASTER than BS

Does any of that look close to a 100% damage boost to you?
Unless, of course, BraveSlash + Advanced Combo = (210 + 100)*3, then lol, gg.

I don't think final attack works with sacrifice, but correct me if I'm wrong.

And Brave Slash and Sacrifice are both weapon speed skills.

I don't think final attack works with sacrifice, but correct me if I'm wrong.

And Brave Slash and Sacrifice are both weapon speed skills.

It does. You can see it in the video pretty clearly i think.

Lol... I can't even tell if you're joking. Beholder Revenge does not trigger Berserk and criticals. But yes, judging by his 95k-ish Crusher, it does seem that Sacrifice ignores some sort of monster defense.

As for what makes me think Heroes are better:

Does any of that look close to a 100% damage boost to you?
Unless, of course, BraveSlash + Advanced Combo = (210 + 100)*3, then lol, gg.

Uh... yes? you didn't mention berserk (dark force).

Uh... yes? you didn't mention berserk (dark force).

Because obviously Dark Force is already accounted to equal Enrage in comparison?

A certain Paladin on Basil actually made a pretty decent DPS chart from the looks of things comparing the three warriors, while I don't have the link or the math to prove it, the chart showed that the Hero with Enrage+BS+ACA+Combat Mastery can beat fully buffed Drks in DPS on every boss besides Pink Bean, who has a 70% PDrate. Just thought I would throw that in there.

With equal funding, of course.

A certain Paladin on Basil actually made a pretty decent DPS chart from the looks of things comparing the three warriors, while I don't have the link or the math to prove it, the chart showed that the Hero with Enrage+BS+ACA+Combat Mastery can beat fully buffed Drks in DPS on every boss besides Pink Bean, who has a 70% PDrate. Just thought I would throw that in there.

With equal funding, of course.

What's Combat Mastery and what's ACA?

What's Combat Mastery and what's ACA?

Combat Mastery, which allows Heroes to ignore 40% of PDrate with all attacks and ACA= Advanced Combo Attack.

Combat Mastery, which allows Heroes to ignore 40% of PDrate with all attacks and ACA= Advanced Combo Attack.

About that chart you mentioned, might this be the one?
http://www.basilmarket.com/MapleStory-Gu...l#Formulas
Actually shows that Drk's beat Heroes by far.

About that chart you mentioned, might this be the one?
http://www.basilmarket.com/MapleStory-Gu...l#Formulas
Actually shows that Drk's beat Heroes by far.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

Get that f'ucking disgrace out of this thread.

About that chart you mentioned, might this be the one?
http://www.basilmarket.com/MapleStory-Gu...l#Formulas
Actually shows that Drk's beat Heroes by far.

lolno. I consider everything on that chart to be absolute rubbish(especially when other, more recent calculations, show different results between classes. More specifically, Archmages) and don't use that chart in regards with anything. No offense to the creator of course.

The best thing is to wait until something is done here, but quite reliable calculations have been done by some people, that seem to check out so far. I'm not saying the calculations that I saw are proof of anything, I was just throwing in here what I've seen.

Off topic, but I took a look at the chart again.

>Goes down to Evan
>See's illusion
>lol'd really hard.
>closes window.

Yeah, rubbish.

lolno. I consider everything on that chart to be absolute rubbish(especially when other, more recent calculations, show different results between classes. More specifically, Archmages) and don't use that chart in regards with anything. No offense to the creator of course.

The best thing is to wait until something is done here, but quite reliable calculations have been done by some people, that seem to check out so far. I'm not saying the calculations that I saw are proof of anything, I was just throwing in here what I've seen.

So what should I do? I really like my drk but I dun wanna be too weak.. (in comparison to heroes)
All I really am looking for is a confirmation that drk's wouldn't fall out too far after heroes,
Let's say if theoretically a hero has a 10M damage per minute (on a boss), and a drk has same equips, would he be doing around 10M damage per minute aswell? (9.5M+)or higher?

Again, I'm no DPS know it all. The only times I made dps "comparisons" was when Magicians were simple minded math to figure out. (Very horrible math skills here) Heroes seem to be built around being offensive kings, while Drks seem to be a versatile class with a great support skill. From what I've seen an equally funded Drk will only be able to beat Heroes at Pink Bean. I have no idea how much Heroes over power Drks in every other situation, if they do.

I will say it was a bad idea if you wanted to make a Drk to be a damage dealing class that could beat Heroes in the first place.

Again, I'm no DPS know it all. The only times I made dps "comparisons" was when Magicians were simple minded math to figure out. (Very horrible math skills here) Heroes seem to be built around being offensive kings, while Drks seem to be a versatile class with a great support skill. From what I've seen an equally funded Drk will only be able to beat Heroes at Pink Bean. I have no idea how much Heroes over power Drks in every other situation, if they do.

I will say it was a bad idea if you wanted to make a Drk to be a damage dealing class that could beat Heroes in the first place.

Well I made the drk in first place because back then Heroes had low HP (without Decent HB skill) and I hated that, so I picked Drk, and else than that cause Drk's aren't weaker than Heroes as of right now as far as I know, so ye I really hate the fact that Heroes become stronger and it's really unfair, cause basically there is no reason for them to be stronger (unlike certain jobs like shads that were weak and now outdo most classes after BB patch).
I understand you don't know all the maths regarding this, but from videos you've watched (if you did) showing drk's training and heroes training, can you really say drk's seems weaker?
BTW: When you mentioned Combat Mastery ignoring PDRate, is that confirmed? I've seen the skill description and it says something about physical defense ERA.. not sure what that means.

Currently,

DrK - 1020% per Crusher @ 60-65 per minute
Hero - 988% per Brandish @ 83-93 per minute (or 100 with Lunchbox)

Of course DrK do have a better damage formula which makes up for some of this, but Heroes are a decent amount stronger.

Currently,

DrK - 1020% per Crusher @ 60-65 per minute
Hero - 988% per Brandish @ 83-93 per minute (or 100 with Lunchbox)

Of course DrK do have a better damage formula which makes up for some of this, but Heroes are a decent amount stronger.

Mastery is a DrKs friend
A decent amount stronger being about 5% in most situations? Given the right buffs DrKs actually being ahead of Heroes? Of course everything is situational and dependent on other factors etc,etc,etc. The current gap isn't that big, the future gap is going to be a lot bigger.

Frankly you shouldn't concern yourself with dps, if you enjoy your character then who cares.

Well I made the drk in first place because back then Heroes had low HP (without Decent HB skill) and I hated that, so I picked Drk, and else than that cause Drk's aren't weaker than Heroes as of right now as far as I know, so ye I really hate the fact that Heroes become stronger and it's really unfair, cause basically there is no reason for them to be stronger (unlike certain jobs like shads that were weak and now outdo most classes after BB patch).

Yes there is, and you already said it.
> Heroes had low HP (without Decent HB skill) and I hated that, so I picked Drk
>

 What about a paladin?

[video=youtube;65_uXhd6C6U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65_uXhd6C6U[/video]

> What about a Hero?

Yeah.

-Ignoring monster's PDRate-(sacrifice ignoring defense) +30% dmg on most bosses
-Affected by Dragon's Judgement- (sacrifice crit boost) +14.875% dmg without SE // +31.625% dmg with SE
-Beholder's Revenge-700% damage attack every 5 seconds +7.72% dmg, probably less, due to dmg reduction
-Speed of Sacrifice FASTER than BS How fast is BraveSlash again?

vs

Advanced Combo Attack +100% dmg

lulz

Here's a quick comparison, and assumption:

DrK: [690% (sacrifice) + 40% of FA @ 150%] x 1.6 (berserk) x 35% chance of critical (135%~150%) + beholder's revenger 700% every 5 seconds (did not adjust for PDrate, negligible).
Dks usually don't have speed infusion, so let's take it as 720ms for sacrifice (fast 4).

[690% + 60%] x 1.6 x (0.35 x 1.425 + 0.65 x 1) * 60000/720 + 700% * 12 = 123,275%

Hero: [630% (BS) + 40% of FA @150%] x 2 (adv combo) x 1.6 (enrage) 5% chance of critical (120%~150%) x (1 - mob's PDrate x 60%)
Assuming fast 5 weapon for a hero, and let's use 40% mob PDrate for comparison

[630% + 60%] x 2 x 1.6 (0.05 x 1.35 + 0.95) x 0.76 x 60000/690 = 148,473.6% per min, adjusting for weapon multipier -> multiply by 1.2/1.49 = 119.576.06%.

So by dps alone, it looks like DrK wins using sacrifice. Not to mention SI and SE/thorns will give DrK an even further boost. But one-handed heroes have more weapon attack with a shield, which can account for 7~10% difference for end-game godly characters. But one thing to worry about for dks that would have around 50k range, you can easily hit damage cap with sacrifice (690% x 1.6 x 1.5 crit x 1.3 boss damage x 50k = 1,0764,000.) Heroes won't run into that sort of trouble for a while. I calculated I would hit 940k max with a single brave slash's hit with sharp eyes on my hero with apple before PDrate, so there's still a lot of room before reaching cap.

Sorry I left out mastery, so multiply Drk's by 0.95 and hero's by 0.85.
Drk: 117,111.25%
Hero: 101,639.72%

I think Final Attack triggers at 40% chance doing 150% dmg. This should lower Hero's damage by a tiny bit.

And that's with a one handed Hero not using his shield, a Drk using a Normal 6 spear/PA with high enough WATK to rival the sword. For comparison, every 1handed sword is Fast5, while normal6 spear/pa includes: Sky skis (lower base ATK than even a lvl100 Sparta) and Crimson Arcglaive (requires 110dex, which is pointless to add for after BB).