Dev Blog -- Bugs

Yes because everyone here has EVERY clue to what NEXON is doing in their office. I'm not a computer wiz but I know what C+++ and Java coding is. And I know MS runs on one of those and thats it. Your argument really makes no sense.

I'm aware people know what the source code is. I really don't have a comeback for this. I don't know all this computer stuff like you guys. All this binary coding and whatever else there is. I'm just saying even though we know the code how NEXON goes about it is unknown to us. Can you at least agree on that?


I can tell your very smart with computers and I don't deny you don't know the code.(If I said so then I'm wrong.) Do you know EXACTLY how NEXON deals with these codes? I don't think any of us will unless we see it for ourself. Again I state, they're bad, they're very bad, but not terrible. Critism again is fine towards them. But calling them idiots or "monkeys" or "dumb asses" or that sort is pure hate.

Who cares?

If you go into a restaurant and the food tastes bad, would you accept a "you don't know what goes on in the kitchen" as a reason not to criticize it?
And if a person knowledgeable about cooking tells you, "They appear to be using rancid soybean oil", will you say "Have you been in the kitchen? How do you know?".
Can you believe that a knowledgeable person would recognize the taste of such oil, even without looking in the pots?
Then why can't you believe that a professional programmer can tell some of the things Nexon is doing wrong, even without visiting their offices, just by observing the game?

You should see me diagnose a PC just by people telling me in detail how it behaves on questions I ask. It's freaky yet cool.

You should see me diagnose a PC just by people telling me in detail how it behaves on questions I ask. It's freaky yet cool.

??????? nothing freaky about it. PC problems have their common footprints. Trojans/spyware use up tons of resources, faulty hardware makes the motherboard bleep or not boot into POST, bad drivers make games choppy, bad cable makes your net run slow around 8pm'ish, PC freezing is a sign of bad/failing power supply, intermittent clicks are the HD usually going towards "click of death".

and so on

Nexon is a multi-million-dollar company, they make a living, a good living, from running MapleStory. They aren't 8 year olds trying to overcome their lying habit who deserve a pat on the back for admitting to peeing themselves last night. Until their customers are satisfied, complaints will be had. Be glad that the criticism you see on here actually has something to back it up; nobody's saying Nexon are dumbasses, they say Nexon are dumbasses because [what really matters goes here].

You should see how pomegranatety their headquarters are

wow, this post is much better than the first one. it cant really be summed up in 1 sentence. thanks, eurydice. keep it up.

It's a shame MapleStory isn't open source. Yes that would lead to possibly more hacks (a downside), but it could also spark interest from developers in freelance who could discover bugs at the source level, offer ways to fix them, and get better fixes going faster by submitting differential changes and changelogs back to Nexon to show what was fixed and how, even then hacks could also be patched faster as well. It wouldn't do a hacker any good if his hack is patched within an hour and then republished the next day in a small subversion patch release set at midnight.

What. How would this support Nexon's business model?

Pretty reasonable I guess...
But before anyone goes and hates on them for not being too open about hackers. Think about what would happen if they were public with all the hacks in game and how they would deal with them?

If they ever did that, it would just encourage the hackers to make more hacking software and it would alert other players who are tempted to cheat to download/abuse those hacks even more causing major problems.

Example:

Nexon: DC hacks exsist, they make people dissapear and it makes the game unfair for others.

Nub player; OMFGwtp dc hax make peepel go boom? WUTWUT? -goes to illegal website to download.-

Cause there are so many players who read these blogs and don't know of dc hacks

Nexon for sure read me when i posted a while back on sp.net

btw, look the date and time of the Gm Tiara reply, same day, 2 hours interval each reply. I Think that day she replied to my ticket 3 times, and the most she replied was 4 replies in 1 day :f6:

Watch i get banned now

funny how they said that they don't provide customer support due to BBB complaints. tuffgai got his account completely recovered through BBB complaints.

The details of how we detect, investigate, and block hacks are too sensitive and cannot be shared without posing a security risk.

jokez. their hack protection causes more harm & inconvenience to legit players than it does to hackers.

Open source can support a business model if the code being open sourced is only that which pretains only to the game engine itself. Content and certain proprietary stuff can be kept closed source.

Even though he does and he does I can tell, it doesn't mean he knows the exact coding of this game, how things are taken care of and what the codes of this game are, therefore he shouldn't be telling NEXON what to do when hes never seen the codes. Sure ok it's written in C+++ or JavaScript and he may have total knowledge of that, still doesn't give him any right to tell nexon they're doing it all wrong I know how to do it and bs like that.And your right, I know nothing of coding, but you don't see me throwing a "tantrum" or anything of that sort am I right?

No one aside from Nexon knows the exact code to the game. Does that means no one else can criticize them beside Nexon? If someone somehow hacked into my bank account, I cannot tell the bank that it does something wrong because I dont know what it does behind the scene? You need to get real. They're providing a service, and when their service does not work the way it is expected to work, then there is a problem. Nexon screwed up in so many ways, and people who using their service has the rights to tell them so.

Further more, you rightly stated that you know nothing about coding. Because if you do, you would have some understanding into how things should be coded at the very least. I occasionally talk to others who has very little knowledge of my coding language, but that does not stop us from communicating effectively and productively.

I once had a really interesting conversation to one of the senior lead developer for IBM about open-sourced technology. What was interesting about it was because I am a pro open sourced person and he's into the business of selling software for a living on the other side of the spectrum. One of my arguments is that code should be open-sourced and services is what we're selling. His counter to that was there are no demands of responsibility when anything goes wrong, surely you want to have someone knowledgeable fixing your problems. He then explained a bit more into the business model of IBM and how they're the one getting the blames when any of their software failed.

Applying this to Nexon, they're providing a software. There are many issues with their software. Some are simple, some are critical. Do we think they have the technical skills to fix/support their clients? I dont think so.

I do not want to start a war about open sourced vs proprietary software because frankly, it is like arguing about religions. I also do not want to start another debate about how Nexon is offering a free to play game. The bottom line to that is they publishing a multi-million dollars profit. So while it's technically sounds, realistically, they're making money on the service provided. That is my opinion. Just to set some grounds, I regularly watch starcraft 2 commentaries on youtube. Now, if I choose to not donate, I can still watch it, just like donators. That is what I personally defined to be a free service.

Yes because everyone here has EVERY clue to what NEXON is doing in their office. I'm not a computer wiz but I know what C+++ and Java coding is. And I know MS runs on one of those and thats it. Your argument really makes no sense.

wtp is c+++

lack of knowledge in coding has become apparent

Also, you must have some kind of blinders on or something. We have praised Nexon many times, it's not the forum's fault you don't see it.

funny how they said that they don't provide customer support due to BBB complaints. tuffgai got his account completely recovered through BBB complaints.

I got mine through BBB and FTC complaints, with some help of reading what tuffgai did

wtp is c+++

lack of knowledge in coding has become apparent

Also, you must have some kind of blinders on or something. We have praised Nexon many times, it's not the forum's fault you don't see it.

wtp is rayquaza2233

lack of knowledge on how a Pokemon name is spelled has become apparent

It was a simple typo and out of all that he posted that's what you decide to bag him on. You make me laugh

Lets see the difference:

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Activisio...zard_(ATVI)

The company reported net revenue of $4.3 billion and net income of $113 million in 2009.

http://investing.businessweek.com/resear...d=24985532

Nexon Corporation reported revenue results for the year 2009. For the year, the company's worldwide revenues increased 56%, growing from KRW 450.8 billion in 2008, to KRW 703.6 billion in 2009. The company's increase in revenues can be tracked to the continued global success of Dungeon & Fighter, which has more than 200 million registered users and recorded 2.4 million maximum concurrent players combined from China, Japan and South Korea.

Nexon made more money than blizzard, and still nexon need to fix the win7 compatible issue that is happening for the past year.

Theres no excuse for nexon not fixing it, nexon make enough money to give players worldwide a better game to play, nexon use the "Free-to-play" excuse to hide all those problems, with all the money nexon earn, Nexon can hire good programmers to fix every glitch of the game.

Funny thing of that blog is this part:

Client bugs require an entire patch to fix, so they generally have to wait for the next game update. Even though they take the longest to fix, client bugs are not necessarily the most serious. Typos, graphic errors, and sound problems all require a patch to fix.

I would rather have a minor patch every week or 2, and bugs being fixed, than they wait till the next game update, having new content to add, fixing bugs, and yet doing nothing, since its too much work to be done in only 1 entire patch.

when starcraft 2 got released, there was a bug that sometimes your campaign save would suddendly disappear, blizzard released the patch 1.01 to fix it, after that, there was a bug that battle.net would kick you from game lobby, then blizzard released the patch 1.02 to fix it, all minor patch, like 4-5mb patch that you wouldn't notice, there was 3 small patch prior the patch 1.1 on starcraft 2.

Theres no excuse or reason for nexon's lack of programming, they are just lazy money angry that doesnt care if the game is running or not.

It's not like they haven't done emergency patches before...

703.6 billion KRW = 613,961,360 USD.

I would rather have a minor patch every week or 2, and bugs being fixed, than they wait till the next game update, having new content to add, fixing bugs, and yet doing nothing, since its too much work to be done in only 1 entire patch.

when starcraft 2 got released, there was a bug that sometimes your campaign save would suddendly disappear, blizzard released the patch 1.01 to fix it, after that, there was a bug that battle.net would kick you from game lobby, then blizzard released the patch 1.02 to fix it, all minor patch, like 4-5mb patch that you wouldn't notice, there was 3 small patch prior the patch 1.1 on starcraft 2.

Theres no excuse or reason for nexon's lack of programming, they are just lazy money angry that doesnt care if the game is running or not.

Yea YOU would like to see mini patches each time something happens. But don't you see how people complain when nexon has sc that last 8hrs? If their were patches that last for that time each time a problem came out, people would rage. People are addicted to maple. When an unscheduled server check happens first thing you see "wtp NEXON I WAS DOING SOMETHING "

When a patch is extended people bash on nexon "wow they cant stay on schedule or code the game the right way"

When maple was down for an entire day over the whole meso exploit, did anyone once say "i see what nexon is trying to do" First thing people said were "ROLL BACK" "When is maple going to be back on" "i'm missing my x2" "Great maple down nothing to do"

Yea YOU would like to see mini patches each time something happens. But don't you see how people complain when nexon has sc that last 8hrs? If their were patches that last for that time each time a problem came out, people would rage. People are addicted to maple. When an unscheduled server check happens first thing you see "wtp NEXON I WAS DOING SOMETHING "

When a patch is extended people bash on nexon "wow they cant stay on schedule or code the game the right way"

When maple was down for an entire day over the whole meso exploit, did anyone once say "i see what nexon is trying to do" First thing people said were "ROLL BACK" "When is maple going to be back on" "i'm missing my x2" "Great maple down nothing to do"

http://ellinforest.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=45

kMS does minor patches SO OFTEN that it's insane sometimes. I'm sure it wouldn't matter if it was in gMS, people need to lighten up. A game with problems is a game with problems. I'd rather have those problems fixed rather than play a game with a plethora of problems making it unplayable or give certain people advantages over others.

Nexon does not make more than Blizzard. Plus they only post select revenue data, never profit data. Of course, their revenue is SIGNIFICANTLY less than Blizzard's. Even if you assume Blizzard takes in much higher costs because it actually provides robust customer service, Nexon would still lose in a profit battle. Not like that matters. Nexon makes enough so that it doesn't have any excuse not to provide gamers with truly satisfactory customer service. One month response time from tickets is no excuse!!!

Also, people get pissed at Nexon America because even after an 8 hour server check, many of the most glaringly obvious and terrible exploits/glitches/hacks STILL don't get patched.

Is it seriously too hard for some of you to understand that?

I get the feeling there are some Nexon employees in shill accounts, because some of these Nexon apologist posts are too retarded to be from real players. YOU are the player, you are the customer, so YOU have to demand efficiency, satisfaction, and the highest quality possible. You do NOT justify the shortcomings of the company. You VOTE with your wallet.

No one aside from Nexon knows the exact code to the game. Does that means no one else can criticize them beside Nexon? If someone somehow hacked into my bank account, I cannot tell the bank that it does something wrong because I dont know what it does behind the scene? You need to get real. They're providing a service, and when their service does not work the way it is expected to work, then there is a problem. Nexon screwed up in so many ways, and people who using their service has the rights to tell them so.

Further more, you rightly stated that you know nothing about coding. Because if you do, you would have some understanding into how things should be coded at the very least. I occasionally talk to others who has very little knowledge of my coding language, but that does not stop us from communicating effectively and productively.

I once had a really interesting conversation to one of the senior lead developer for IBM about open-sourced technology. What was interesting about it was because I am a pro open sourced person and he's into the business of selling software for a living on the other side of the spectrum. One of my arguments is that code should be open-sourced and services is what we're selling. His counter to that was there are no demands of responsibility when anything goes wrong, surely you want to have someone knowledgeable fixing your problems. He then explained a bit more into the business model of IBM and how they're the one getting the blames when any of their software failed.

Applying this to Nexon, they're providing a software. There are many issues with their software. Some are simple, some are critical. Do we think they have the technical skills to fix/support their clients? I dont think so.

I do not want to start a war about open sourced vs proprietary software because frankly, it is like arguing about religions. I also do not want to start another debate about how Nexon is offering a free to play game. The bottom line to that is they publishing a multi-million dollars profit. So while it's technically sounds, realistically, they're making money on the service provided. That is my opinion. Just to set some grounds, I regularly watch starcraft 2 commentaries on youtube. Now, if I choose to not donate, I can still watch it, just like donators. That is what I personally defined to be a free service.

More or less, most programs developed nowadays use the C++ language of coding with a small mix of Java, .NET, and/or Shockwave/Flash.

Languages like C, ASM, Pascal, Delphi, and others aren't so much anymore because C++, Java, and Shockwave/Flash are the most portable and optimized developer languages. .NET is more Microsoft based for managed applications and some GUI workings.

If my guess is correct, and based on the files distributed with MapleStory and used by it, GMS is coded using C++, .NET, and Shockwave/Flash. Possibly Nexon is using a compiler like Visual Studios .NET (2002 distribution for Windows XP originally) with some minor system updates just for VS .NET 2002 which would explain why GMS is more stable on 32-bit operating systems and contains references to Visual C++ 2008 Runtimes which is a add-in and update to the VC++ .NET, 2003, and 2005 runtimes for developers.

They are also using a lot of webbased languages as mentioned once in another post like ASP and SQL database.

There's also a possible two parts to GMS as well. The game engine itself, and then the add-ins used by GMS to run on top of the engine giving the game its personality.

The engine deals with the CPU instructions for processing, audio, video, input, and network using DirectX as a foundation and how they should work. If anything this is the main problem area of GMS. The game engine possibly isn't being properly optimized to run on cross-platform architectures like x64 which hybridizes 32-bit and 64-bit architectures. Modern 32-bit applications compiled under Visual Studios 2008 and 2010 carry optimizations for both architectures when compiled solely for 32-bit systems. This ensures that the 32-bit application works using the Windows on Windows compatibility layer properly and doesn't make a system call for a resource that may not exist on the 64-bit architecture or is a call that is protected. By default, any application developed for 32-bit using this level of compatibility built-in to the application and system is just as stable as the same application developed exclusively for the 64-bit environment.

kMS does minor patches SO OFTEN that it's insane sometimes. I'm sure it wouldn't matter if it was in gMS, people need to lighten up. A game with problems is a game with problems. I'd rather have those problems fixed rather than play a game with a plethora of problems making it unplayable or give certain people advantages over others.

This actually would matter but in essence it would be a good thing. Minor patches even to GMS often take no less than 15 minutes on average. This level of debugging would show where even if daily or weekly small patches happened bugs could be fixed fast and quickly instead of having to wait for months on a next big patch that still might not have a much needed fix. The quicker you fix a problem and the quicker you deploy it, the better the results in the long run.