What a NL can expect after BB patch.

It places a giant shuriken on the ground for 60 seconds. Whenever you take damage, 1300% (not sure how this is calculated exactly) is reflected back onto whatever attacked you.

So you can have that giant shuriken active all the time? Sounds like some BS Beholder Avenge, except if the 1300% is calculated off your Dmg range, it kinda pales in comparison.

So you can have that giant shuriken active all the time? Sounds like some BS Beholder Avenge, except if the 1300% is calculated off your Dmg range, it kinda pales in comparison.

1300% appears to be calculated off the amount of damage that you took, but the numbers don't quite match up.

 Made this in case anyone wants to request a quick preview of their changes

It's just not practical to figure out a general expectation for all NLs, I guess. If anyone's interested, punch your stats here, or request the sheet.

Fixed the calculations a bit, post-BB self-critRate is 65%, not 60%, and with SE/Thorns it's 85%.

I'm almost done with this thread, I suppose.

im just going off of some dps chart i saw on basil. It seamed legit. NLs dmg has basically doubled from now. But so has every other class. And yes i saw the vids where nls were throwing 80-90k stars, but did you see the vids of the 100k hurricane, or the 150k hero move. Also about alch, resistance chars have like 3min alch.

as for dmg over time, many many classes have that also (atleast ranged classes)

http://www.basilmarket.com/MapleStory-Gu...p-333.html

That's a pretty massive boost to Avenger... should be nice to have a decent mob attack finally.

im just going off of some dps chart i saw on basil. It seamed legit. NLs dmg has basically doubled from now. But so has every other class. And yes i saw the vids where nls were throwing 80-90k stars, but did you see the vids of the 100k hurricane, or the 150k hero move. Also about alch, resistance chars have like 3min alch.

as for dmg over time, many many classes have that also (atleast ranged classes)

http://www.basilmarket.com/MapleStory-Gu...p-333.html

You should know that when he posted a DPS chart here he got highly criticized, and he even admitted he doesn't know how critical works, or skill delays :/ Theres other stuff such as moves and DoT piercing PDR/MDR, and all that. I wouldn't be going off that without hesitation.

It all depends on your equips anyways, more than your class.

You should know that when he posted a DPS chart here he got highly criticized, and he even admitted he doesn't know how critical works, or skill delays :/ Theres other stuff such as moves and DoT piercing PDR/MDR, and all that. I wouldn't be going off that without hesitation.

It all depends on your equips anyways, more than your class.

i know, he re did it and it looks legit now. It also makes logical sense, we were one of the lower dps classes now and will probably be one of the lower dps classes laters. (not counting SE hax or apples hax)

i know, he re did it and it looks legit now. It also makes logical sense, we were one of the lower dps classes now and will probably be one of the lower dps classes laters. (not counting SE hax or apples hax)

Just took a look at it again. Most confusing layout ever. Infinity is implemented wrong and equips are still poorly chosen. DrKs are listed by Crusher instead of Sac. He needs to be a lot more consistent in his formatting so people can actually understand what's going on.

Infinity is implemented wrong and equips are still poorly chosen.

I just checked the equips out, my NL's gear is within about 0.5% dps of his. I just have a lot less w.atk and a lot better base dex (seriously, 110 base? 199 total dex? wtp?) Plus of course my NL is not wearing a single piece of potential gear, or a nice new 50% scrolled claw for that matter. I haven't upgraded it in a while.


Thing standing out to me is that Onyx Apples are +132 atk with Adv. Dark Aura? Fo reals? That has a pretty major impact on the accuracy between classes.


His Paladin: 523k DPS with a Fast weapon.
My Paladin: 592k DPS with a Slow weapon.

I resolve that I am awesome.
Also, if SI is still +2 weapon speeds, it's an additional 12% boost to my damage. While it only boosts his Paladin by half that.

i know, he re did it and it looks legit now. It also makes logical sense, we were one of the lower dps classes now and will probably be one of the lower dps classes laters. (not counting SE hax or apples hax)

What a load of pomegranate. 201 Total DEX on a Night Lord wearing full reverse? What the pineapple?

He can't even calculate maximum damage properly. It's wrong. He can't even get the basic damage formulas for any character, you expect us to even remotely trust his other calculations?

Wow, pineapple. Can't even stand to look at this "spread sheet". He thinks that average damage output is equivalent to your average damage multiplied by the mean of your minimum and maximum critical.

Wow, pineapple. Can't even stand to look at this "spread sheet". He thinks that average damage output is equivalent to your average damage multiplied by the mean of your minimum and maximum critical.

Wut? I think I did exactly just that for Post-BB in the OP. Sorry for being slow but what exactly is wrong with it?

Wut? I think I did exactly just that for Post-BB in the OP. Sorry for being slow but what exactly is wrong with it?

Because you don't have 100% critical rate.

Because you don't have 100% critical rate.

Oh, he didn't include the crit chance? Wut? Lemme take a look.

EDIT: avgCritDmgBonus = totalCritBonus*avgCritDmg seems to cut it.

Wow, pineapple. Can't even stand to look at this "spread sheet". He thinks that average damage output is equivalent to your average damage multiplied by the mean of your minimum and maximum critical.

I'm looking at v.2.5 and the crit calculation seems fine to me. crit rate * (min + max crit) / 2 should be the average bonus due to crits (in columns S to U depending on class... which is my main complaint. Inconsistency). Multiplying that by the base skill % should, again, give the average percent of the attack.

Inconsistency is my main gripe. The base stats are haphazard at best and don't even seem to be correct - they're missing 10 points on most classes, and heros/paladins have over 1000 base str.

I mean kudos for trying it's just really hard to work with this spreadsheet. And choosing Sacrifice instead of Crusher would have put DRKs at #2 DPS.


Paladins being #5 on neutral targets also makes me seriously suspicious. I mean, they're ahead of Dual Blades and MM/BM even without the elements? IS that really better balanced?

I'm looking at v.2.5 and the crit calculation seems fine to me. crit rate * (min + max crit) / 2 should be the average bonus due to crits (in columns S to U depending on class... which is my main complaint. Inconsistency). Multiplying that by the base skill % should, again, give the average percent of the attack.

Inconsistency is my main gripe. The base stats are haphazard at best and don't even seem to be correct - they're missing 10 points on most classes, and heros/paladins have over 1000 base str.

I mean kudos for trying it's just really hard to work with this spreadsheet. And choosing Sacrifice instead of Crusher would have put DRKs at #2 DPS.


Paladins being #5 on neutral targets also makes me seriously suspicious. I mean, they're ahead of Dual Blades and MM/BM even without the elements? IS that really better balanced?

Never mind, I see it now. There's these huge rounding errors everywhere I look too.

my NL got 200 dex (with equips, was planning to ap reset dex out T_T) But thats cause i got good equips and 110 base T_T i had like 6k range at 142 with no pot equips T_T on current gms though.
Since your all saying how bad it is, why haven't i seen 1 dps chart from SP....sure you might not have "everything" but atleast make a educational guess one or something...im planing my new char....

why haven't i seen 1 dps chart from SP....sure you might not have "everything" but atleast make a educational guess one or something...im planing my new char....

Because we can make logical estimates and there is little to no use of a DPS chart for the amount of time it would take to make.

If having an accurate dps chart is so important to you, why don't you do it?

my NL got 200 dex (with equips, was planning to ap reset dex out T_T) But thats cause i got good equips and 110 base T_T i had like 6k range at 142 with no pot equips T_T on current gms though.
Since your all saying how bad it is, why haven't i seen 1 dps chart from SP....sure you might not have "everything" but atleast make a educational guess one or something...im planing my new char....

As I said in the other thread, pomegranatety info is worse than no info at all. What can you use an inaccurate DPS comparison for? The whole point of a comparison is to see how well the classes are balanced. We learn absolutely nothing if your numbers are wrong. You don't get graded for effort in real life.

Side note, KaidaTan and I are actually working on making one.

Well, there's a couple of thing NLs can expect FOR SURE after BB...

1. More efficient star usage.
2. Avenger can rival with triple throw even on only two mobs (The skill that has a chance to recharge also increases avenger's damage, but not triple throw's), and even on single targets along third job (with more star usage)
3. Drain will effectively heal more, as it deals more damage, and will most likely only require two hits to heal fully (each being 50% your total).
4. Taunt is now more effective, considering you won't punch anymore, and can simply spam avenger within the mob you just taunted. Add that hugeass damage reflecting star for better use.
5. Sharp eyes will still be nice, but we will now be able to not suck horribly without it. In fact, with potentials, we have a good chance to reach 100% critical rates, and that's ALWAYS sweet.
6. With the new hp increase we got, we can get to survive in some places we couldn't before.

If I'm missing something, feel free to say. But I believe those are the main points for Night Lords.

Sharp Eyes doesn't play favorites anymore. It's now just roughly a 10-15% damage increase for every class. It shouldn't be in NL discussions anymore. You might as well talk about Combat orders, or Advanced Dark Aura.