So, normal stat characters win now?

Will statless characters be worse in comparison to normal stat characters? Potential items have officially leveled the playing field for normal stat characters. I have some numbers below I think you might want to see before replying.

In this example, I'm using a level 200 Night Lord with clean gear. I'm only using the levels as a means to show potential.

 Normal DEX

Assume you are using level 90 gear (top, bottom), level 120 gear (shoes, gloves), and a Reverse Lampion. Additionally, both normal and DEXless will share a Giles Cape, Rose Earrings, and a Scarlion Helmet. This will cover the main needs. This is not including any stats that the armor may have.

DEX capped for 120 gear: 160
LUK at level 200 with cap: 862
21% bonus x 8 equips levels 71-120 = 168%
LUK + 168% LUK = 2310 total LUK

Assume the claw is clean attack and use Big Bang's damage formula.
1.75*(4 * 2310 + 160) * (54 / 100) = 8883 max damage

For the sake of arguement, here is the Night Raven's Claw as well with the same stats.
1.75*(4 * 2310 + 160) * (40 / 100) = 6580 max damage

 DEXless

Now, assume you are using android armor (excluding helmet) and a Night Raven Claw. Again, the character will have a Giles Cape, Rose Earrings, and a Scarlion helmet.

DEX capped at 25 (job advancement)
LUK at 200: 997
21% x 4 equips 71-120 = 84%
14% x 4 equips 31-70 = 56%
LUK + 56% LUK = 2392 total LUK

Assume the claw is clean attack and use Big Bang's damage formula.
1.75*(4 * 2392 + 25) * (40/ 100) = 6715 max damage

Now, higher level gear can add more stats, so the gap between the two will decrease and even switch places. I am aware that there is new weapons in the Alien Invasion patch, but for the sake of all obtainable gear (players post event will not be able to find the weapons), I chose these options. If level 130 equips come out, the normal stat will take over, hands down. Warriors are excluded from this as DEX is not required with the exception of four items (that I'm aware of). Funny how the lowest and highest funded characters should have the same stats now. This also helps prove that one-handed weapons will easily beat two-handed weapons since shields can add another 21% of your main stat on top of whatever the weapon adds.

Hasn't this always been the case for Night Lords? But for other classes yeah having higher leveled items would be better, so you'd be better off as low stat probably.

The only classes that remained stat-less were the mages (F/P and I/L) and those were already using LUK from gear to wear level 50 makered gear.

Those will be the only ones to change (probably to wear level 80 class gear, unless level 121+ gear comes out).

Once BB hits GMS, regular- luk mages are kind of balanced out, since 1 int no longer equals 1 MA. MA is worth more.

Comparing them with w.atk from their clean claws and nothing else is massively biased towards the normal dex thief.

My NL has a 61 atk claw, and its total atk is roughly 125, or 137/225 with pots.

If you assume that final case (164 atk from non-claw equips and potion) then you're comparing 35861 max (dex claw) to 34246 (dexless claw). That's a much more reasonable 4.7% advantage for the dexless player.

Also, you only need 120 dex to equip the pirate outfit. Sounds kinda high, until you account for 25 base, 22 (HTP), 40 (helm), 3 medal, etc. - which adds up to 90 dex already. If your Android shoes and pants are scrolled for dex, then you can make up the remaining 30 dex with very little difficulty. Leaving you with the level 80 top and gloves - or 14% extra luk. -> 2532 LUK.

With 2532 LUK 120 DEX 204 ATK the dexless is bumped up to 36,585, which is in fact almost 800 higher than the dex claw.


Of course this is biased towards dexless claws, just as much as yours is towards dex claws. The reality is that they're about equal, and better gear will always mean better damage.

Of course this is biased towards dexless claws, just as much as yours is towards dex claws.

Which is why I included both? Dexless has a minor advantage. The numbers show that. It comes down to the gear and that's it, agreed. It's just much better now to stay on the normal stat route and work for the higher gear. It's cheaper in the beginning which gives much more time to develop high-stat armor in the end.

I don't understand: some special equips have no req. stats so use those to give yourself secondary stats and put on your potential equips and voila? :f6: JMS also has cash pet equips that gives all +30 stats; not sure if other versions do.

DEXless warriors are FAR better than warriors with DEX now.

Which is why I included both? Dexless has a minor advantage. The numbers show that. It comes down to the gear and that's it, agreed. It's just much better now to stay on the normal stat route and work for the higher gear. It's cheaper in the beginning which gives much more time to develop high-stat armor in the end.

by messing around with how much att you include, you can skew the results either way. hence, your conclusion is flawed. neither really has an advantage. dexless is slightly better at bossing, dex'd is slightly better at reaching xhko training targets.

@ OP I think the equipment-limit is flawed by a glitch in MS (and most other RPGs I've played)... You can be (stat)less or low(stat) and still have a complete set of reverse or timeless gear (before potential mods) So this would allow (stat)less and low(stat) players the same capability to equip all items. Therefore, the playing field in terms of obtainable/useable gear is equal for all characters of the same class.

Once level 77 maple weapons are released, statless and stat will be on even footing.

Once level 77 maple weapons are released, statless and stat will be on even footing.

Until, perhaps, lvl 130 items are created :o

Once level 77 maple weapons are released, statless and stat will be on even footing.

I don't understand how this is even a factor. I'm low luk, nearly lukless and I'm equipping reverse gear. With this in mind, shouldn't statless still be ahead of normal build?

Using the following stats, I've come up with the following:
RADRaze2KX - lvl 200 Bishop
EQUIP CONSTANTS: Equip w/ magic attack modifiers: Medal (8), Cape (7), Gloves (8), Ring (5), Weapon (150 / 9% magic 20% total damage)
POTENTIAL CONSTANTS: 4% LUK, 6% INT modifiers
SKILL CONSTANTS: MW30 = 1.15

Actual Variables:
Base INT = 989, Equip = 250, Total after MW 30 = 1396
Base LUK = 33, Equip 102, Total after MW 30 = 140
Max Damage w/ low luk build = 14973

Now, let's roll 29 points from LUK into INT (and compensate for the 29 luk lost through equips [minus 29 from int equip, plus 29 to luk equip as a quick way to keep wearing reverse gear... those of you that don't know how, I can explain it later]):
Base INT = 1018, Equip =221, Total after MW 30 = 1400
Base LUK = 4, Equip 131, Total after MW 30 = 135
Max Damage w/ lukless build = 15002

Let's roll the other way... let's build a normal LUK bishop and cap his LUK at 80 and roll our equip back to the way it is currently
Base INT = 942, Equip =250, Total after MW 30 = 1341
Base LUK = 80, Equip 116, Total after MW 30 = 208
Max Damage w/ normal build = 14576

Let's roll it even further ... let's say a mage capped it at 120 instead of 80 because they thought secondary stats actually mattered MORE than previously speculated:
Base INT = 892, Equip =250, Total after MW 30 = 1247
Base LUK= 120, Equip 116, Total after MW 30 = 254
Max Damage w/ normal build = 14089

All calculations sourced from my program: http://www.teamradftw.com/ms/phpBB3/view...=2&t=19458
Formulas needed to hand calculate:
Total(Stat) = (Base_stat*Maple warrior) + (Base_stat*(Maple Warrior - 1)* stat%) + Equip_stat)
Example = (989*1.15) + (989*.15*.06) + 250
Example = (1137.35) + (8.901) + 250
Example = (1146.251) + 250
Example = 1396.251
Example = 1396 <-- Proven in Game

I'll have to type the rest later... here's a start... Back in 2 hours:
max_damage = weapon_multiplier*((4*(cStats[0]) + cStats[1]))*((character_atk*echo_hero)/100)*numbertotaldamageperc);
max_damage = 1*((4*989) + 140) * (

Each point of dex is 1/4 of a luk point, so that dexless NL will still have more damage than you stated (ex: dex from scarlion/MoN or HTP/belts/various other crap)
But yeah, statless people are now a bit shafted.
Anyone with the minimum possible dex (while not sacrificing %luk) to wear the highest weapon possible will always be the best.

blah blah blah maths blah

Except at level 200 all mages have at least 23 luk, since the INT cap is 999.

Also, where are you getting over 100 luk from equips from? I get 22 from HTP, 20 or something from zak helm, 5 from a belt, some from a medal, but that still only accounts for half of it. A shield scrolled for luk could help, but that could be put to much better use with MA for shield. % luk also helps a bit, but not much. You could get maybe 50 bonus luk without losing out on MA or int. If you're scrolling anything for luk that you could scroll for int, why not just put points into luk?

Except at level 200 all mages have at least 23 luk, since the INT cap is 999.

Also, where are you getting over 100 luk from equips from? I get 22 from HTP, 20 or something from zak helm, 5 from a belt, some from a medal, but that still only accounts for half of it. A shield scrolled for luk could help, but that could be put to much better use with MA for shield. % luk also helps a bit, but not much. You could get maybe 50 bonus luk without losing out on MA or int. If you're scrolling anything for luk that you could scroll for int, why not just put points into luk?

Sorry, I didn't realize there was a 999 stat cap. Guess that means I've got 10 stats to roll back woot. I didn't put all my luk equips down. They are as follows:
15 Zhelm
2 Circle of Ancient Thought (Ring)
3 Broken Glasses
23 HT Pendant
18 Maple Magician Shield
7 Black Belt
1 Cash Shop Ring
5 Reverse Myst Blue
7 Reverse Hermosa
10 + 6 Reverse Cabatina
===============
97 LUK from equip + 4% boost from potential equips s= 100.88 from equips, 33 * 1.04 = 1.32 + 100.88 = 102.3 = 102

Notice if you take away my reverse equips, i only have 74 LUK from equips, and 74+33 = 107, 13 LUK short of my lowest LUK-requiring reverse item...

And you're right, I will be trading my shield for an MAtk shield, as I've done a ton of calculations and found that even a basic MoN is better than an egg'd HT Pendant after BB for my purpose.

Sorry, I didn't realize there was a 999 stat cap. Guess that means I've got 10 stats to roll back woot. I didn't put all my luk equips down. They are as follows:
15 Zhelm
2 Circle of Ancient Thought (Ring)
3 Broken Glasses
23 HT Pendant
18 Maple Magician Shield
7 Black Belt
1 Cash Shop Ring
5 Reverse Myst Blue
7 Reverse Hermosa
10 + 6 Reverse Cabatina
===============
97 LUK from equip + 4% boost from potential equips s= 100.88 from equips, 33 * 1.04 = 1.32 + 100.88 = 102.3 = 102

Notice if you take away my reverse equips, i only have 74 LUK from equips, and 74+33 = 107, 13 LUK short of my lowest LUK-requiring reverse item...

And you're right, I will be trading my shield for an MAtk shield, as I've done a ton of calculations and found that even a basic MoN is better than an egg'd HT Pendant after BB for my purpose.

Well, at the least, you've proved a theory of mine correct, that one can use the bonuses from the item set he's wearing to wear those items in the right circumstances. Do you have items in your inventory that give 13 luk to wear your reverse items, or are you out of luck if you unequip those items?

There's no easy way to explain it, but it requires you to A.) Put items on in a specific order, from lowest requirement to highest requirement, B.) Your "I can wear this now" equip has to give you %stat for the stat you're lacking, and C.) You need to have Maple Warrior.

It works by benefiting from the way %Stat also increases the small amount you get from Maple Warrior... for some reason, though, I've yet to develop a way to explain this that I can prove in numbers... when I remove my Reverse Myst Blue (-5 luk) from the equation, I have 112 luk after MW30, but it requires 120... that's with my 4% boost from other equips, so I'm at a loss as to wtp is happening now ._.

There's no easy way to explain it, but it requires you to A.) Put items on in a specific order, from lowest requirement to highest requirement, B.) Your "I can wear this now" equip has to give you %stat for the stat you're lacking, and C.) You need to have Maple Warrior.

It works by benefiting from the way %Stat also increases the small amount you get from Maple Warrior... for some reason, though, I've yet to develop a way to explain this that I can prove in numbers... when I remove my Reverse Myst Blue (-5 luk) from the equation, I have 112 luk after MW30, but it requires 120... that's with my 4% boost from other equips, so I'm at a loss as to wtp is happening now ._.

I don't understand how you can manage to equip the reverse items even now, let alone after you roll back 10 more int and switch from HTP to MoN as you said you are considering doing. That would be 28 less luk than now.

Edit: Oh, and swapping shield too -there goes another 18luk. I think it would be difficult to equip lvl 80 stuff by then.

What about ele wands?