[1.2.323] (2) Moar Skill Balancing

When you have Arrow RAin that hit 10mobs @ 400% dmg, I don't think u nid any further 4th job mobbing skills. ARrow rain has pretty much make BM into a spam-able class. =)

...And have you ever tried using that on any high level monster with a magic attack? Cast once, maybe twice then its HOLY pomegranate I'M GETTING SPAMMED BY MAGIC FROM BOTH SIDES FUUUUUUUUUUU, and you either need to pot every hit, maybe very other if you're lucky or get the pineapple out and use puppet somewhere. I.e. Its worthless because hurricane spamming works so much better. Archers aren't mages, and don't have magic guard

...And have you ever tried using that on any high level monster with a magic attack? Cast once, maybe twice then its HOLY pomegranate I'M GETTING SPAMMED BY MAGIC FROM BOTH SIDES FUUUUUUUUUUU, and you either need to pot every hit, maybe very other if you're lucky or get the pineapple out and use puppet somewhere. I.e. Its worthless because hurricane spamming works so much better. Archers aren't mages, and don't have magic guard

I don't get why spamming pots would be a problem though, if it's faster training. It's not like it's hard to fire--pot--fire--pot etc, nor are pots expensive.

It's a problem when you die in 2 hits. Going pot>attack>pot>attack>pot>attack is miserably slow attacking. Imagine that you're training a Magician and every attack you got left you at 300 MP. Yeah. Now attack between that.

Auto pot people Just attack, attack, attack and you will magically pot yourself...just feed your pet keep it alive.

It brings any non-boss mob down to 10k HP. This prevents severe leeching on 1 HP monsters, but it's still low enough for a Paladin to OHKO afterwards.

Darn, so dual blades are the only spamable ultimate leechers?


*edit crap double post fail...unable to merged them...

Only feasible at certain locations / maps / situations. E.g. puppetting.

Hadriel

I don't get why spamming pots would be a problem though, if it's faster training. It's not like it's hard to fire--pot--fire--pot etc, nor are pots expensive.

You are a warrior, right? Try to do this, as it currently is, with a Night Lord using Avenger. Feels like a kick in the nuts. In the future, avenger will be powerful enough to balance that, BUT STILL, Bowmasters will have a bit of a problem...

The only thing I suggest is to push monsters to a spot, cast puppet past them or stun them, and proceed to spam arrow rain. Painfully annoying to do though.

I think you guys are forgetting that Combat Orders can now go past the max skill level.
If the cooldown on HH was left at 20s, then with combat orders, it'd be spammable (which, in my opinion, doesn't make it any more useful) as the cooldown will go down by another 20s (2 SP). Effectively, the cooldown is still 20s.

In all honesty though, I find HH to be one of the most useless skills in the game. One can cast 3.5-ish ACBs in the time that it takes to HH once, and you are just stuck in the spot not being able to do anything for like 2s after the cast (allowing another 2.5 ACBs), it just wastes pots because monsters (i.e. Skeles) are just shooting at you with their magic while you are stuck in the spot going "Come on... move already...". It hasn't helped my training any, so I think I'm going to ditch it in favour of Stance and other skills when the revamp gets to GMS.

...And have you ever tried using that on any high level monster with a magic attack? Cast once, maybe twice then its HOLY pomegranate I'M GETTING SPAMMED BY MAGIC FROM BOTH SIDES FUUUUUUUUUUU, and you either need to pot every hit, maybe very other if you're lucky or get the pineapple out and use puppet somewhere. I.e. Its worthless because hurricane spamming works so much better. Archers aren't mages, and don't have magic guard

Looks like it's back to DB>Puppet>Inferno

You are a warrior, right? Try to do this, as it currently is, with a Night Lord using Avenger. Feels like a kick in the nuts. In the future, avenger will be powerful enough to balance that, BUT STILL, Bowmasters will have a bit of a problem...

The only thing I suggest is to push monsters to a spot, cast puppet past them or stun them, and proceed to spam arrow rain. Painfully annoying to do though.

I am a lvl 182 NL thank you very much. i've been 2 hited by everything I've trained on for the last 100 lvles or so. The only problem using avenger like that would be the min. range and the fact that it only goes in one direction. It is far superior to use avenger and taunt on mobs with 5 and 6 monsters compared to using TT.

I am a lvl 182 NL thank you very much. i've been 2 hited by everything I've trained on for the last 100 lvles or so. The only problem using avenger like that would be the min. range and the fact that it only goes in one direction. It is far superior to use avenger and taunt on mobs with 5 and 6 monsters compared to using TT.

Well, I don't know you, but the lag that comes from Spain helps to reduce the total hits by half. And yes, it's more effective than triple throw, but it still feels as if you are throwing pillows at them. Well, not at lv 182, but on lv 135, or the likes, it does, (not counting our avoid) when you have to pot, avenger, maybe avenger again, pot, repeat. If it wasn't for our avoid, it'd be ridiculously hard. NOW, picture it for bowmasters... They DO NOT have that avoid.

An average Drk at Skele also does Rush - Crusher - pot - Crusher - Crusher - pot + Rush... in other words, no more than 2 attacks between each pot, and while we have to pot seriously quickly, like, HOLY-MOTHERpineappleER-I'M-GONNA-DIE quickly, we still have to make almost-sure that we can maintain our 2hitKO ability. I don't understand what's so hard about potting every (two) hit(s).

The only annoyance I have encountered on a bowman is the minimum range issue, which pretty much isn't a problem for BM with Dragon Breath (poor MMs and their glitches), or as suggested, Arrow Rain spam.

Well, I don't know you, but the lag that comes from Spain helps to reduce the total hits by half.

:O Spain. I'm from Spain too. And if you think that lag is bad (I guess you play GMS), try playing KMS/KMST. Is a lot worse. Getting to lvl 80+ is a pain because of the constant potting. And it lags even with auto pot. Not to mention other kind of lags, like overkilling with hurricaine/rapid fire (Using them, when monster's hp bar is at 50%, I just stop and they die after 1 second). I can't use polearm toss because of the lag aswell. But I guess that's our fault, for playing a version we're not supposed to.

Anyways, I'm still worried about criticals. Because with my KMST aran, I do lower criticals than my lvl 92 kms aran. And KMST one higher damage range. I guess they changed its critical hits and now it's just +50% damage. That's a great nerf to all jobs based in criticals, unless I'm wrong...

...And have you ever tried using that on any high level monster with a magic attack? Cast once, maybe twice then its HOLY pomegranate I'M GETTING SPAMMED BY MAGIC FROM BOTH SIDES FUUUUUUUUUUU, and you either need to pot every hit, maybe very other if you're lucky or get the pineapple out and use puppet somewhere. I.e. Its worthless because hurricane spamming works so much better. Archers aren't mages, and don't have magic guard

DUDE, BM has so many stunning skills. I'm a BM just in case u hadnt notice....... and I train in skele revive memory. You nid guidance?
Here:
1) open hawk 99% stun
2) Arrow bomb, (since no minimum range) = u can stun almost all mobs that's on a straight line
3) Arrow rain on those mobs that have been stunned. Dmg from Arrow bomb means you probably only nid to Arrow rain once or twice b4 the mob is dead.

An average Drk at Skele also does Rush - Crusher - pot - Crusher - Crusher - pot + Rush... in other words, no more than 2 attacks between each pot, and while we have to pot seriously quickly, like, HOLY-MOTHERpineappleER-I'M-GONNA-DIE quickly, we still have to make almost-sure that we can maintain our 2hitKO ability. I don't understand what's so hard about potting every (two) hit(s).

The only annoyance I have encountered on a bowman is the minimum range issue, which pretty much isn't a problem for BM with Dragon Breath (poor MMs and their glitches), or as suggested, Arrow Rain spam.

Vengeance also might key in there as well, since your attacking at close range. While a bunch of mobs are spamming lasers and stuff at you, you have a chance to KB & stun them for 2 seconds dealing an extra 3XX% damage.

So basicly at maximum your doing about 720% damage + crits.

And if crits works as I've heard they should right now in kmst, it should add an extra 80% more damage to the total.

So it becomes 800% minimum ~ 1296% maximum.

An average Drk at Skele also does Rush - Crusher - pot - Crusher - Crusher - pot + Rush... in other words, no more than 2 attacks between each pot, and while we have to pot seriously quickly, like, HOLY-MOTHERpineappleER-I'M-GONNA-DIE quickly, we still have to make almost-sure that we can maintain our 2hitKO ability. I don't understand what's so hard about potting every (two) hit(s).

Arrow rain has a bad tendancy to cause pot lag.You can jump crushers, arrow rain requires you to be firmly on the ground and stops you moving for a while even after its finished casting. Rush also has inviciblity frames, and if it came down to it, you could overpot and get out of the way of the monsters.

I am a lvl 182 NL thank you very much. i've been 2 hited by everything I've trained on for the last 100 lvles or so. The only problem using avenger like that would be the min. range and the fact that it only goes in one direction. It is far superior to use avenger and taunt on mobs with 5 and 6 monsters compared to using TT.

Nowhere did I say getting 2 hitted by everything worth training on is a problem, but using arrow rain is a sure way to kill yourself, or at the very least, waste a pineappleton of time without increasing youre xp rate at all. If arrow rain only fired in one direction, that would be seriously great. No other attack that a bowmaster has hits behind them. Hitting behind an archer does nothing but box you in between multiple monsters, then theres the obvious fact that , thieves have many times the avoid of an archer as well as fake, movement skills (flash jump and haste) that archers don't have access to anything equivilant (...exceptlolthrust), and you aren't attacking the monsters behind with avenger, that again is nothing but a disadvantage at any high level (i.e. 4th job)training spot.

DUDE, BM has so many stunning skills. I'm a BM just in case u hadnt notice....... and I train in skele revive memory. You nid guidance?
Here:
1) open hawk 99% stun
2) Arrow bomb, (since no minimum range) = u can stun almost all mobs that's on a straight line
3) Arrow rain on those mobs that have been stunned. Dmg from Arrow bomb means you probably only nid to Arrow rain once or twice b4 the mob is dead.

Hawk hits ONE target. I.e. lends itself to the idea that using hurricane is better.

Bomb arrow?... Just lol. Hey, lets hit a mob of 10 monsters with arrow rain then rely on arrow bombs only hitting 6 targets with a pretty bad stun rate! Congrats, you've succesfully killed your damage rate, and not you're using a 2nd job attack to try and pray you don't die.

. Dmg from Arrow bomb means you probably only nid to Arrow rain once or twice b4 the mob is dead.

Oh for gods sake, that isn't even remotely true right now, and this is far before they boost the higher level monsters hp up!

You could have at least mentioned hitting them with arrow rain and dropping a puppet out of the monsters range, because thats the only legit tactic for arrow raining, but then that takes a long time to set up.

@ people saying stuff about pots... not everyone is decently rich to afford thousands of pots per training run.

Arrow rain has a bad tendancy to cause pot lag.You can jump crushers, arrow rain requires you to be firmly on the ground and stops you moving for a while even after its finished casting. Rush also has inviciblity frames, and if it came down to it, you could overpot and get out of the way of the monsters.

What does Rush's nonexistent invincibility frame have to do with anything? It has already been stated that an average Drk will have to face with pot-every-2hits problem as will any ranged class. I wouldn't know about Arrow Rain's potlag tendency, since for all 4 years of playing, this is the first time I've heard of it. If true, then it is not even a problem about class, or skill design, it's just a bug that fucks archers up.

What does Rush's nonexistent invincibility frame have to do with anything? It has already been stated that an average Drk will have to face with pot-every-2hits problem as will any ranged class. I wouldn't know about Arrow Rain's potlag tendency, since for all 4 years of playing, this is the first time I've heard of it. If true, then it is not even a problem about class, or skill design, it's just a bug that fucks archers up.

It's mostly that you get hit, and while in the air on that fraction, arrow rain doesn't trigger. You have to use the potion. Oh wait, pot lag, got hit, instant in the air, pray for arrow rain to work before or after. Etc.

Makes quite a lot of sense if you look at it detailedly. There are few stuff around lag compensation that needs some tweaking, and not only affecting bowmasters, either.

It's mostly that you get hit, and while in the air on that fraction, arrow rain doesn't trigger. You have to use the potion. Oh wait, pot lag, got hit, instant in the air, pray for arrow rain to work before or after. Etc.

Makes quite a lot of sense if you look at it detailedly. There are few stuff around lag compensation that needs some tweaking, and not only affecting bowmasters, either.

So you're saying most, if not all, Archers can't time to use Arrow Rain when they land on ground? I'm not saying they're utterly useless or anything, I'm just wondering if there's some stupid pomegranate going on due to Nexon's incompetence. Does the Arrow Rain airborne "lag" act uinformly (possible to fire at certain moments, impossible at others) or does it just act randomly? Because one would think that after a few days of learning to live with the lag, one would realize how to use the skill at its best allowed potential.