I am a old Pokemon fan returning to Pokemon. This time I am playing HeartGold. I have also only recently been introduced to competitive pokemon battling. I understand IVs and EVs, but I can't fully grasp the concept of a well rounded team. (like what most teams are composed of these days). Smogon.com's guides are very helpful, albeit difficult to understand (I'm not very math geeky).
I'd love to add one additional and permanant member to my team: Dragonite. I have always loved Dragonite and never cared that it gradually became weaker with the release of replacements such as Salamance. Dragonite is truly my favorite Pokemon. Although, I have a level 100 one with rather oddly distributed EVs (and not so great IVs). It has vitamins on all stats except HP. I'd like to breed a new one.
My team is only composed of a Gengar right now with perfect IV on S.Atk only (other stats are meh because I'm a week old on the game so I didn't spend a lot of time). For some reason only my 31 S.Atk haunter passed the IV on to my Gengar, not the 31 Speed Ditto. I used both power items to pass IVs. It has a modest nature with a choice scarf build according to smogon. Keeping that in mind, what kind of Dragonite should I get? Let me clarify, what build for Dragonite is most versatile and useful? How am I to obtain certain egg moves if necessary? IVs & EVs?
What are most teams composed of these days?
What is the deal with Ubers, OU, UU, NU these days?
Thank you. I hope I can find some help on southperry. Maybe in Mapler terms, you guys can dumb this down even I can understand.
I believe only the mother can pass down IVs like that.
There's a few different team styles now. There's stall (sponging attacks, relying on residual damage like spikes and toxic), pure offense, and bulky offense (mix of defense and offense). You have to pick one before moving on to what Pokemon you're using.
Rayquaza2233 Wrote:I believe only the mother can pass down IVs like that.
There's a few different team styles now. There's stall (sponging attacks, relying on residual damage like spikes and toxic), pure offense, and bulky offense (mix of defense and offense). You have to pick one before moving on to what Pokemon you're using.
I see, I believe I used a 31 S.Atk female haunter to breed the Gengar. Pure offense is like a party full of sweepers right?
Rayquaza2233 Wrote:A party full of sweepers, yeah.
I'm not exactly sure what this one's called, but it basically sets the table for one Pokemon to sweep.
Oh I see, like a team that buffs up a main pokemon to murder your opponent's entire team right? Btw, I really like Dragonites. I want to use it in my team no matter what. Thanks for replying lol.
Alright. Dragonite seems to fit more into a balanced team. If you want to base the team around him, well then, let's do it. 'Course, you can do a stall team, but Dragonite seems to fit more into a balanced team.
First is deciding if you want your Dragonite to lead or not. Dragonite makes a surprisingly *decent* lead. Scroll down to the Anti lead to read more. I'm assuming since you love Dragonite, though, you probably want your team to eliminate counters of Dragonite, so you'd bring out Dragonite last. You can achieve this by the Dragon Dance or the Choice Band set, but the Dragon Dance Set is more better for a late game sweep. The Choice Band set is more for the midgame, and really, it's just for ravaging and hopefully KOing Pokemon.
Right. Now you have your Dragonite and a Gengar. Now you need something to deal with some of those the counters to Dragonite, which include Suicune, Skarmory, Bronzong, Cresselia and Hippowdon. The first four are all stopped by Magnezone/Magneton, who hits the Water-types super effectively while trapping the Steel-types. Heatran would be a good idea of 2HKOing the last two, while providing another steel resist to help resist opposing Dragons.
Your team seems great so far. A revenge killer, two steels to revenge Dragons, and your main sweeper. However, there is a quite of a big weakness to Scizor. While one set of Scizor can't deal with all of your Pokemon, they each can KO a lot. Rotom with Will-o-wisp is a good idea, as it destroy versions locked into Bullet Punch or Bug Bite. Magnezone/magneton destroys versions locked into Purusit.
Now you need your lead. Quite frankly, any lead works fine for your team. If you want an Anti lead, you can just put Stealth Rock on Heatran. If you don't, well, Heatran could use the extra move. I'd suppose you do not want your opponent to set down rocks, as that'll hinder Dragonite, so Taunt leads, such as Azelf and Aerodactyl, or Rapid Spin leads, such as Starmie, will probably be the best.
The team I just thought of is probably not the best team ever. It will need tweaks. However, this is the simplest process on building a competitive Pokemon team.
Don't worry about Ubers, OU, UU, and NU. You probably want to join the OU metagame, which is basically a metagame with no overpowered Pokemon, such as Rayquazza or Mewtwo.
I'd suggest Reflect over Will-o-wisp on Rotom (use Rotom-h). Shed Shell Skarmory fucks up your pomegranate. Mixed Infernape does too. Tentacruel can fix the Infernape weakness while serving as a spinner/toxic spiker and absorber.
ClawofBeta Wrote:Alright. Dragonite seems to fit more into a balanced team. If you want to base the team around him, well then, let's do it. 'Course, you can do a stall team, but Dragonite seems to fit more into a balanced team.
First is deciding if you want your Dragonite to lead or not. Dragonite makes a surprisingly *decent* lead. Scroll down to the Anti lead to read more. I'm assuming since you love Dragonite, though, you probably want your team to eliminate counters of Dragonite, so you'd bring out Dragonite last. You can achieve this by the Dragon Dance or the Choice Band set, but the Dragon Dance Set is more better for a late game sweep. The Choice Band set is more for the midgame, and really, it's just for ravaging and hopefully KOing Pokemon.
Right. Now you have your Dragonite and a Gengar. Now you need something to deal with some of those the counters to Dragonite, which include Suicune, Skarmory, Bronzong, Cresselia and Hippowdon. The first four are all stopped by Magnezone/Magneton, who hits the Water-types super effectively while trapping the Steel-types. Heatran would be a good idea of 2HKOing the last two, while providing another steel resist to help resist opposing Dragons.
Your team seems great so far. A revenge killer, two steels to revenge Dragons, and your main sweeper. However, there is a quite of a big weakness to Scizor. While one set of Scizor can't deal with all of your Pokemon, they each can KO a lot. Rotom with Will-o-wisp is a good idea, as it destroy versions locked into Bullet Punch or Bug Bite. Magnezone/magneton destroys versions locked into Purusit.
Now you need your lead. Quite frankly, any lead works fine for your team. If you want an Anti lead, you can just put Stealth Rock on Heatran. If you don't, well, Heatran could use the extra move. I'd suppose you do not want your opponent to set down rocks, as that'll hinder Dragonite, so Taunt leads, such as Azelf and Aerodactyl, or Rapid Spin leads, such as Starmie, will probably be the best.
The team I just thought of is probably not the best team ever. It will need tweaks. However, this is the simplest process on building a competitive Pokemon team.
Don't worry about Ubers, OU, UU, and NU. You probably want to join the OU metagame, which is basically a metagame with no overpowered Pokemon, such as Rayquazza or Mewtwo.
I'm assuming lead goes first for the opposing team. So an Anti-lead goes first as well to counter the opposing team's lead? Or do I switch in if I encounter a common lead pokemon?
I would recommend Smogon.com for sets/team building advice, though keep in mind that their metagame is based on Shoddy Battle. Wifi metagame tends to be very different, especially since Rotom forms cannot be used (legally) in Wifi.
The problem with DD Dragonite is that it is inferior to Salamence due to its significantly lower speed. However, Dragonite's main advantage over Salamence is its bulk. Thus, using a bulky Dragon Dance set would be the best way to go if you want your team to be based on Dragonite and not a lead.
Here is one of my old teams that was based on DD Salamence but with the a bulky Dragonite instead. Dragonite hates two things: Steel types and Bulky-waters. This team aims to remove those so that it can sweep.
Spoiler
Heatran @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive (+Spe, -SpD)
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Explosion
---
You can use a Metagross lead here instead if you don't want to keep softreseting for a decent Heatran. IMO, Heatran is better because it does a great job of luring bulky Waters so you can Explode on them. It's also a great Scizor counter.
Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
- Bullet Punch
- U-Turn
- Pursuit
- Superpower
---
Scizor makes a great revenge killer and lure for Steel types which Dragonite hates. The idea is to keep U-Turning to scout their team while weakening their switches. Optionally, you could use Forretress here for Rapid Spin, since Dragonite hates Stealth Rock. However, you'll be losing a great revenge killer.
Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spe
Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Wish
- Protect
- Roar / Toxic / Hidden Power Electric
---
Many Bulky Waters can't get past Vaporeon (though watch out for Suicune since it can set up on you easily). You can use Hidden Power Electric to take out Gyarados, though breeding for it is annoying. Toxic or Roar work just as well.
Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 40 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Nature: Naive (+Spe, -SpD)
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Grass
- Explosion
---
Magnezone traps Scizor and other Steel types with Magnet Pull. Getting Hidden Power Grass will be annoying, but it's great for Swampert who otherwise walls you easily.
Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Pain Split
---
Tyranitar and Scizor take out Gengar easily, which is why you use Substitute to watch for their switch in (this is also why the Choice Scarf set sucks. Tyranitar and Scizor will easily dispose of it). Focus Blast will OHKO Tyranitar. Pain Split lets you recover back the HP lost from Life Orb and Substitute. I would try to get Timid nature but yours is Modest so that'll do.
Another option is to use the "Double Dragon" strategy. You could use the anti-lead Dragonite set (The anti-lead Dragonite set is the best IMO since it's something that Salamence can't do) to weaken your opponent's counters, allowing DD Salamence to sweep. Remember, Dragonite and Salamence have very similar counters.
I'm assuming lead goes first for the opposing team. So an Anti-lead goes first as well to counter the opposing team's lead? Or do I switch in if I encounter a common lead pokemon?
Yes that's correct. An anti-lead can do several things: prevent Stealth Rock or defeat as many Pokemon before going down (which is what Anti-lead Dragonite aims to do).
Goals Wrote:Hey Andy. Does smogon have a terminology section? I'm still in the process of figuring out what moves do/terms mean.
You can search a move in their search bar. It gives a detailed description of what it does. For terminology, they might have some articles though I've never looked for them.
Bribery Wrote:You can search a move in their search bar. It gives a detailed description of what it does. For terminology, they might have some articles though I've never looked for them.
B> In-game MS tutorial Andy f3. Yeah I think I'll go with metagross or starmie for my lead. I dunno what I'm doing but I'll trust you guys. I guess I can just tweak my team after I learn more about Pokemon.
Rayquaza2233 Wrote:I'd suggest Reflect over Will-o-wisp on Rotom (use Rotom-h). Shed Shell Skarmory fucks up your pomegranate. Mixed Infernape does too. Tentacruel can fix the Infernape weakness while serving as a spinner/toxic spiker and absorber.
These suggestions probably work, as I didn't really spend a lot of time on this =D.
I suggest using Shoddy Battle to test out your team first before EV training them.
I'm assuming lead goes first for the opposing team. So an Anti-lead goes first as well to counter the opposing team's lead? Or do I switch in if I encounter a common lead pokemon?
Leads are the first Pokemon sent out. Leads generally set up Stealth Rocks, or Spikes, and try to prevent the opponent from setting it up. Anti-leads just seek a way to completely destroy the other lead, with no intention of setting Rocks up. Starmie's Anti lead set would be Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and I think it's Thunderbolt, and the last slot would be Rapid Spin to clear Rocks and get rid of your opponent's Rocks.
If you want an Anti-lead that's not Dragonite, Machamp is by far the best.
Machamp @ Lum Berry
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SpD / 4 Spe
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
- DynamicPunch
- Payback
- Ice Punch
- Bullet Punch
---
This is one of the most annoying leads ever thanks to DynamicPunch. Very few things can OHKO it. It can even survive Azelf's Psychic.
PS guys, Rotom forms cannot be used on Wifi without an Action Replay so there's no point in suggesting them.
Please note I only included Starmie because it clears Rocks, something that hinders Dragonite, and something that Machamp can't do. However, Machamp is a better anti lead if you don't care about Stealth Rocks.
ClawofBeta Wrote:Please note I only included Starmie because it clears Rocks, something that hinders Dragonite, and something that Machamp can't do. However, Machamp is a better anti lead if you don't care about Stealth Rocks.
Yeah it does something like 25% on Dragonite right?
Bribery Wrote:If you want an Anti-lead that's not Dragonite, Machamp is by far the best.
Machamp @ Lum Berry
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SpD / 4 Spe
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
- DynamicPunch
- Payback
- Ice Punch
- Bullet Punch
---
This is one of the most annoying leads ever thanks to DynamicPunch. Very few things can OHKO it. It can even survive Azelf's Psychic.
PS guys, Rotom forms cannot be used on Wifi without an Action Replay so there's no point in suggesting them.
That is annoying because Machamp has no guard, therefore will never miss right?
Goals Wrote:Yeah it does something like 25% on Dragonite right?
That is annoying because Machamp has no guard, therefore will never miss right?
1. Yeah.
2. Yeah, and the only only lead Machamp can't beat is Metagross, which is still shaky considering the 50% Confusion Rate. Some obscure leads such as Choice Specs Azelf beat it.
