[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time

If a non-Magician has the right to go where the best exp is, so should a Magician, and others shouldn't expect otherwise.

If every Mage did that, the end result would be mages fighting each other/fighting ks wars w/ any classes.
Edit: I'm talking about all kradia and older servers & most chs MAGES.
it's a huge ch war cycle we went through @ skeles and other popular leech/training maps.

If every Mage did that, the end result would be mages fighting each other/fighting ks wars w/ any classes.
Edit: I'm talking about all kradia and older servers & most chs MAGES.
it's a huge ch war cycle we went through @ skeles and other popular leech/training maps.

This whole debate is just the story of the game. I mean seriously, you guys don't think this shit goes on between god single target DPS classes at Bigfoot or Anego? Especially during 2x events?

Lay off the ArchMages, please. At least when you level your weapon attack classes you have boss runs to look forward to.

This whole debate is just the story of the game. I mean seriously, you guys don't think this shit goes on between god single target DPS classes at Bigfoot or Anego? Especially during 2x events?

Lay off the ArchMages, please. At least when you level your weapon attack classes you have boss runs to look forward to.

[COLOR="Green"]That's different. Bigfoot and Anego are something that are limited, meaning you kill one or two and then move on to an actual training map. Now we'll have to revert back to Skeles because Mages will be able to spam the one area in game we can train that an AM can't.

And we can only look forward to bossing if we can level up, which is now limited because of the fact that Mages can kill in pretty much every good training map that isn't Minidungeoned out there.[/COLOR]

I have to agree with the melee classes. Skeles may be boring but they're perfectly suited for us, where oblivion is much better suited for close range players. Not to mention that skele mini-dungeon is crap for them, so the little extra experience they gain for not being able to nuke the entire map makes the trade-off a little more fair. Just because we are equally deserving of more experience doesn't mean that we need to be there, basically.

I sympathize greatly with the close range players that will get KS'd, and I will continue to train at skeles until somewhere new is released that is suitable for a dual spamming team.

[COLOR="Green"]That's different. Bigfoot and Anego are something that are limited, meaning you kill one or two and then move on to an actual training map. Now we'll have to revert back to Skeles because Mages will be able to spam the one area in game we can train that an AM can't.

And we can only look forward to bossing if we can level up, which is now limited because of the fact that Mages can kill in pretty much every good training map that isn't Minidungeoned out there.[/COLOR]

I think you're over-estimating how ZOMGPWNZ AMs will be at these maps. Remember that the maps are designed to create smaller mobs, while ultimates's power come from being able to attack large mobs. Your only real competiton would be an AM using CL, but they'd be killing at the same rate as you.

I think you're over-estimating how ZOMGPWNZ AMs will be at these maps. Remember that the maps are designed to create smaller mobs, while ultimates's power come from being able to attack large mobs. Your only real competiton would be an AM using CL, but they'd be killing at the same rate as you.

They can follow you around a map and kill with new boosted Blizzard and increased Amp. Tele will allow them to outrace almost every class, guaranteeing they could take a map if they wanted to. By standing on the steps up to another platform, they can hit both of them, and with the natural top to bottom and left to right teleports on the map, they can easily get into a position to attack.

Then can follow you around a map and kill with new boosted Blizzard and increased Amp. Tele will allow them to outrace almost every class, guarenteeing they could take a map if they wanted to.

But also remember that there's a few seconds after every blizz cast where AMs can't move. Besides, by 4th job pretty much every class has a movement skill, even warriors (or does rush not work without mobs to push?) So you should be able to stay ahead pretty well, at least to get a few hits in before the AM catches up. Plus oblivion 5 looks like a better layout for ultimate spamming anyways.


Edit: Bomber, you got ninja'd not only by the same points Dual but by my responses.

I think you're over-estimating how ZOMGPWNZ AMs will be at these maps. Remember that the maps are designed to create smaller mobs, while ultimates's power come from being able to attack large mobs. Your only real competiton would be an AM using CL, but they'd be killing at the same rate as you.

Say hi tele and new amp.

But also remember that there's a few seconds after every blizz cast where AMs can't move. Besides, by 4th job pretty much every class has a movement skill, even warriors (or does rush not work without mobs to push?) So you should be able to stay ahead pretty well, at least to get a few hits in before the AM catches up. Plus oblivion 5 looks like a better layout for ultimate spamming anyways.

Few seconds of waiting matters diddily when eveything in the map gets hit, which automatically tags those mobs to give the bigger chunk of EXP to the I/L AM thanks to the new Oblivion Monster weakness to Ice, which helps GUESS WHAT, a boosted Blizzard (from a power of 798 to 900, a 12% increase, and this is before Ice-weak weakness is applied. New weakness + New AMPed Blizzard will go from 1197 to 1350)! Not to mention the Time Pieces lewt.

But also remember that there's a few seconds after every blizz cast where AMs can't move. Besides, by 4th job pretty much every class has a movement skill, even warriors (or does rush not work without mobs to push?) So you should be able to stay ahead pretty well, at least to get a few hits in before the AM catches up. Plus oblivion 5 looks like a better layout for ultimate spamming anyways.

Rush works only with mobs and is little compensation for how slow warriors(other than DW) are.

Oblivion 5 has a boss to deal with, and that thing sure is annoying to deal with every 2 hours when training. That's why we don't train there often. And yes, if a warrior uses Rush and a mob has already been classified as dead by Blizzard, I can't Rush to it, and then I waste half a second or two going through the animation itself without being able to attack. Not to mention almost any class other than an I/L AM would even be able to come close to 1h them often, unless you get a strong dual-charged Paladin, who would only be able to do it on a single monster to an I/L's 15. Even Heaven's Hammer, a skill that has the same range as Blizzard and reduces HP to 1 isn't good enough, because HH isn't even applied if a monster dies from Blizzard before the animation ends.

I've played on ToT maps using an AM before; You don't hit nearly everything on the map. You hit two platforms, three if you're lucky, and the mobs are rarely larger than 7 or 8. If ToT were amazing for ult spamming, then you'd see a hell of a lot more F/Ps at regret maps.


And as I said, look at oblivion 5. It has 4 levels all across the map, creating a much better area for ultimate spamming. AMs and WA classes may very well not even interact. Edit: Ah, i see what you're saying about oblivion 5.

As stoked as I am for Chiefs being Ice-weak, I feel bad for weapon attack classes. Now, Arch Mages can screw them over even at Time Temple.

I've played on ToT maps using an AM before; You don't hit nearly everything on the map. You hit two platforms, three if you're lucky, and the mobs are rarely larger than 7 or 8. If ToT were amazing for ult spamming, then you'd see a hell of a lot more F/Ps at regret maps.


And as I said, look at oblivion 5. It has 4 levels all across the map, creating a much better area for ultimate spamming. AMs and WA classes may very well not even interact. Edit: Ah, i see what you're saying about oblivion 5.

One hitting 7-8 mobs will still piss off all non-mage classes that train there. It doesn't have to be 15. As long as you can nuke them to Oblivion before we get a chance to even touch one, you have already won the map.

One hitting 7-8 mobs will still piss off all non-mage classes that train there. It doesn't have to be 15. As long as you can nuke them before we get a chance to even touch one, you have already won the map.

But by the time they're done there, you could have easily moved on to another area and quicky done at least some damage to a group of mobs. Besides, that was only half my point; Because this map is ill-suited for ultimate spamming, AMs won't train here.

I've played on ToT maps using an AM before; You don't hit nearly everything on the map. You hit two platforms, three if you're lucky, and the mobs are rarely larger than 7 or 8. If ToT were amazing for ult spamming, then you'd see a hell of a lot more F/Ps at regret maps.


And as I said, look at oblivion 5. It has 4 levels all across the map, creating a much better area for ultimate spamming. AMs and WA classes may very well not even interact. Edit: Ah, i see what you're saying about oblivion 5.

[COLOR="Green"]The issue is that Regret monsters have exp comparable to Skeles, for like, 15k more HP. It's barely a trade off. O4 has much more exp per monster comparably. And you can EASILY hit 2 floors with an ultimate. I hit two all the time with my Paladin. You need to just be standing on a step.

However, I do agree that the fact that you cannot stand in one place and spam will reduce the number of Mages that come here. Only really hardcore ones will try it.[/COLOR]

One hitting 7-8 mobs will still piss off all non-mage classes that train there. It doesn't have to be 15. As long as you can nuke them to Oblivion before we get a chance to even touch one, you have already won the map.

Maybe I'm forgetting how much damage mages do, but is it really that easy to hit 141k damage (HP of a Chief), even with amp/ultimate buffs/ice weak? My 14x I/L was barely pushing 80ks on ice weaks with a ewand and half decent gear. If they're only 2hitting, I doubt they'd leave Skeles unless they wanted PoTs or a change of atmosphere.

Yes, but the mobs are not nearly comparable to skeles. And fun fact: By the time you can 1HKO these guys, you can 1HKO skeles. If you kill a mob of 10 skeles, you'll get about 45k exp. If you kill a mob of 8 gaurdians, you get between 48 and 56k exp.
However, a mob that large of skeles is more common than a mob that large at ToT. My point is, Skeles are better exp than gaurdians because the mobs are more reliable and there's less movement.

Yes, but the mobs are not nearly comparable to skeles. And fun fact: By the time you can 1HKO these guys, you can 1HKO skeles. If you kill a mob of 10 skeles, you'll get about 45k exp. If you kill a mob of 8 gaurdians, you get between 48 and 56k exp.
However, a mob that large of skeles is more common than a mob that large at ToT. My point is, Skeles are better exp than gaurdians because the mobs are more reliable and there's less movement.

Hmm really? Let's see: To one-shot Guardians, the I/L AM needs to reliably deal ~94,000 damage on neutral. This is without factoring magic defense, so maybe around 95-97k. Wow you're right. Even with the new Blizzard we will probably only be seeing 18x AMs there. I hope you're right though about AMs not being there, because I am no idea how much MA it will take to achieve 100% 94,000 Blizzards, and how easy/hard it will be to gain the equipment needed to deal this type of damage.

Yes, but the mobs are not nearly comparable to skeles. And fun fact: By the time you can 1HKO these guys, you can 1HKO skeles. If you kill a mob of 10 skeles, you'll get about 45k exp. If you kill a mob of 8 gaurdians, you get between 48 and 56k exp.
However, a mob that large of skeles is more common than a mob that large at ToT. My point is, Skeles are better exp than gaurdians because the mobs are more reliable and there's less movement.

Bolded is a good thing?