[1.2.276] More rebalancing

nice buff for threaten but i think the only way for pally to be useful is to change their elemental charges to party buffs...

i mean it doesn't need to be full +120% dmg and 150% elemental fire buff...it can be like 105% dmg buff and 120% elemental, and only pally get full buff...

i really like the concept of pally but they are so weak in maple

That would just make them worse while making other classes better. Being wanted for a buff only does not make a class good.

How can you test anything with an attack that always does 1 damage? Unless this makes it miss?

Cut back on defensive equips, with 250 def it was easy to test. With my normal 495 def they just did 1 damage like you say.

Without threaten: 85-92 approx.
With threaten: 40-46 approx.

So yeah, Threaten affects any physical attack.

If there's a skill that can cancel super WDEF up, Paladins should get it.

If there's a skill that can cancel super WDEF up, Paladins should get it.

Sorry to break your bubble but Heroes already have Armor crash which would be the one to cancel super weapon defense. Knights/Paladins get Magic Crash instead.

Sorry to break your bubble but Heroes already have Armor crash which would be the one to cancel super weapon defense. Knights/Paladins get Magic Crash instead.

I would like it if the three Crashes had some kind of use. As it is, they're all entirely eclipsed by Dispel, which is stupid.

How can you test anything with an attack that always does 1 damage? Unless this makes it miss?

Take off your defense.

Edit: Seems I was late.

Interensting new knuckles.

I would like it if the three Crashes had some kind of use. As it is, they're all entirely eclipsed by Dispel, which is stupid.

To my knowledge and observation, the current crashes work for the version of defense ups that are not super (level 1 and 2). However, Dispel will not work. Still, not really that useful enough to get people's attention to bring even a Hero sometimes. >.>

I was bored, and crunched the numbers.

-20% monster accuracy from Threaten is gonna give about 2-3% higher miss rate. Really nothing to speak of.

Changing the monster atk from -20 to -20% is the main advantage.

If a monster did 5000, it now does about 3300, if it did 8000 it does 5100, and so on.

This makes it about a 56.25% increase in effective player HP, not quite as good as HB - but they can be used on the same monster, going to 250% base hp (5000 base hp => 12500 max hit) It's too bad Threaten only works on physical damage.

You know, I suddenly got an insane idea. Seeing your chart it could be possible that Threaten is so powerful that ranged attackers TOUCHING the boss is actually safer than taking a magical bolt of lightning to the face? That... that can make for some hilarious scenarios. This is based on the idea of Threaten always being present on a boss, which is actually helps more than one party. I.E. you bring a single Paladin for the sole purpose of weakening a boss so everyone can touch the boss and take -20% less damage. No need for Arans and Evans in every party. The Paladin does it "raid-wide". Paladins are the raid-wide physical Combo Barrier/Bulls-Eye/Blinder.

To my knowledge and observation, the current crashes work for the version of defense ups that are not super (level 1 and 2). However, Dispel will not work. Still, not really that useful enough to get people's attention to bring even a Hero sometimes. >.>

Dispel does work on those things. Bishops at Horntail and my friend at Zakum do it all the time. Dispel works on all four different buffs, in fact.

You know, I suddenly got an insane idea. Seeing your chart it could be possible that Threaten is so powerful that ranged attackers TOUCHING the boss is actually safer than taking a magical bolt of lightning to the face? That... that can make for some hilarious scenarios. This is based on the idea of Threaten always being present on a boss, which is actually helps more than one party. I.E. you bring a single Paladin for the sole purpose of weakening a boss so everyone can touch the boss and take -20% less damage. No need for Arans and Evans in every party. The Paladin does it "raid-wide". Paladins are the raid-wide physical Combo Barrier/Bulls-Eye/Blinder.

That's easy to figure out. If magic attack is stronger than 80% of physical attack, touch damage is better to take. You can find those numbers anywhere.

For example, PB has 1700 physical attack and 1200 magic. 1200 is less than 80% of 1700, so magic damage is still lower even with Threaten.

It's still going to help out a ton with melee classes though.

Edit: And physical ranged attacks of course. How could I forget that.

Paladins are the raid-wide physical Combo Barrier/Bulls-Eye/Blinder.

That reminds me... is Blind actually at all useful? You know, the Bowman skill?


Cause -20, or even -20% monster accuracy, from Threaten, is barely enough to matter. Monster accuracy is the quotient in a miss rate, so effectively you get 25% more misses. If you were getting hit 10% of the time, you now get 12.5%. If you were getting 50%, it's 62.5%. If it's -20, then it's obviously less effective - most bosses have 200-250, so it's only gonna be about a 10% increase in miss rate.

And as such, it barely matters on a Warrior. Right now, wearing half a dozen equips that have avoid bonuses, I have just over 90 avoid. I don't get better than 8% miss rates on any major bosses. My base avoid is only around 20.

If it was a 20% increased chance to miss then it might do some good in general, but as it is I can't see the Blind effect being much good.

Wait.

Is Threaten fully effective on bosses? Or is it like PG where it gets halved?

Sorry to break your bubble but Heroes already have Armor crash which would be the one to cancel super weapon defense. Knights/Paladins get Magic Crash instead.

I remember that was the intention with shadow meso, from hermits. At least the current description still names it. Of course, it doesn't work AT ALL. Not that it should, or anything... Well, maybe ignore it, but still doesn't.

That reminds me... is Blind actually at all useful? You know, the Bowman skill?


Cause -20, or even -20% monster accuracy, from Threaten, is barely enough to matter. Monster accuracy is the quotient in a miss rate, so effectively you get 25% more misses. If you were getting hit 10% of the time, you now get 12.5%. If you were getting 50%, it's 62.5%. If it's -20, then it's obviously less effective - most bosses have 200-250, so it's only gonna be about a 10% increase in miss rate.

And as such, it barely matters on a Warrior. Right now, wearing half a dozen equips that have avoid bonuses, I have just over 90 avoid. I don't get better than 8% miss rates on any major bosses. My base avoid is only around 20.

If it was a 20% increased chance to miss then it might do some good in general, but as it is I can't see the Blind effect being much good.

I personally don't have blind yet, but I know a few people that do ... From what they tell me and considering archers have relatively low miss rates normally, blind helps a ton more than the 25% more misses. it's probably a flat miss chance.

Sorry to break your bubble but Heroes already have Armor crash which would be the one to cancel super weapon defense. Knights/Paladins get Magic Crash instead.

I am aware of Armor Crash, but I still think Paladins should have the ability to break super defenses.

Heroes are used in bosses frequently enough, and though they need improvements just like most of the adventurers, I don't think they need Super Armor Crash. Make Enrage a party skill possibly?

Simple solution.

Dragon Knight's Power Crash = De-buff damage reflect
White Knight's Magic Crash = De-buff super magic defense
Crusader's Armor Crash = De-buff super weapon defense


everyone wins.

Of course I'm not going to throw a rage if Heroes do end up with Super Armor Crash, but for Paladins to be useful in bosses, Mages would have to be considered a serious attack force, otherwise no one would bother with Super Magic Crash. No one takes Mages in for bosses so I don't see why Paladins would be needed.

Wait.

Is Threaten fully effective on bosses? Or is it like PG where it gets halved?

[COLOR="Green"]From what I've seen, it's fully effective, as effective as -20 def and attack gets. The % based of it makes it kick so much ass I'm amazed. Add this to your godly damage reduction charts Russt, we might be able to break nearly 10% damage on everything thanks to this thing.

What in hell happened to my class?
Now I'm godly overpowered on Anego and the Regret mobs, and better in other spots, to the point of being able to 1h almost anything before TT that has a weakness. The only thing that sucks about this is the fact that everyone forgets that most bosses are elementally resistant, meaning you can't utilize the added charge for damage. I'm kinda disappointed. I wanted Paladins to be stronger, but I didn't want something like this. More damage to my skills would have been fine, not just making the entire idea of charges go backwards and make it so I'm dual-wielding elements for the sake of using them when I don't even have to.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]From what I've seen, it's fully effective, as effective as -20 def and attack gets. The % based of it makes it kick so much ass I'm amazed. Add this to your godly damage reduction charts Russt, we might be able to break nearly 10% damage on everything thanks to this thing.

What in hell happened to my class?
Now I'm godly overpowered on Anego and the Regret mobs, and better in other spots, to the point of being able to 1h almost anything before TT that has a weakness. The only thing that sucks about this is the fact that everyone forgets that most bosses are elementally resistant, meaning you can't utilize the added charge for damage. I'm kinda disappointed. I wanted Paladins to be stronger, but I didn't want something like this. More damage to my skills would have been fine, not just making the entire idea of charges go backwards and make it so I'm dual-wielding elements for the sake of using them when I don't even have to.[/COLOR]

Don't assume anything at this point.
They're not nearly finished with tweaking skills.