[1.2.270] New Weapon Types - New PQ - stronger Evan

B> videos of evans KSing people @ Anego and BF

B> videos of evans KSing people @ Anego and BF

Neither of them exist in KMS xDDD

A level 200 Evan can only tank a ~10k hit with HB, and only about a ~16k hit with HB VS an 200 AM who can tank ~13k/~20k. Oh noes!

But wait! Add in their magical shield and Evans can handle ~12k/~19k hits! A 1k discrepancy! Oh noes!

In all honesty, Evan are just as tough as mages when you factor in Magic Resistance.


*My reference for how much Evans can take is based on this pic of an AM's HP and simply applying the different Magic Guards:

 Spoiler

Yeah, with Magic Resistance blocking, what, 20%? 30%? Of ALL DAMAGE TAKEN? Jeez I'd trade 10% off MG for that skill. At end-game, Lv. 200 stats, a Magician who has 18750+ MP base (aka 30,000 MP with HB) relies on HP to survive big hits, not MP. Heck, after 16x or so that's the case - your MP is so high that it's having more HP that helps. Blocking damage altogether before applying MG....damn. With that skill an ArchMage could seriously stand a chance tanking HT's tail damage (with 20/80 MG), and a Bishop, if the skill stacked with Invincible, could easily take the hit.

Man I am so sick of reading OBSOLETE OBSOLETE OBSOLETE.

Are you guys really so insecure that any class that appears slightly stronger than you completely threatens your manhood? I love my archmage and will continue playing it long after Evan and any other class, no matter how good they may be, because as far I'm concerned you should play the class you enjoy, not the one with the biggest plantain DPS.

Whenever I read "obsolete" I get this mental image of a quivering neckbeard ready to tear their room apart because ALL OF MY HARD WORK WAS FOR NOTHING ARGHHHHHHHH *gundam shatters on the cold concrete basement floor*

I know a lot of us enjoy our ArchMages (you, me, Goals, etc.) simply for the magical aspect of them (YAY MAGIC OMGOMGOGM!). But I agree with Goals when he says it is frustrating time and time again when, even if you're the strongest ArchMage in GMS, you're not invited to bosses because your skills are just designed to suck on single target mobs. In this case Evan really does render ArchMages obsolete. They have the single target and party skills necessary to make the class useful on all boss runs, and their mobbing is pretty amazing for non-ultimate spamming.

But like you said, obsolete doesn't mean people can't play them for fun. If you like a class, play it! I know I enjoyed playing LOLFP and wouldn't change that for the world, but I won't lie - the passive 40 matk boost will be hella nice on an Evan. Not saying that's the reason to play a Magician, of course, but hey.

So an elemental wand don't reduce the damage of non-elemental attacks? I always assumed they just uniformly nerfed everything other than their appointed elements...

So much for a Speargrave wand being useful in the long term =P

Nope. That's the beauty of Eles for Magic Claw and Big Bang - big matk boost towards raw neutral power, no decrease .

Mages aren't designed to suck at bosses. They're supposed to be weaker than the top DPS classes for sure, but the actual implementation of them is just bad design. For some reason Nexon thinks that classes that use elements should only be useful at monsters that are weak to those elements. If they actually made it so that elements didn't mean everything and that you could actually do close to your max possible damage on neutral monsters, then it wouldn't be so much of a problem. Ele wands weren't even necessary.

I prefer to see old problems fixed rather than shoved into a corner by new content. A simple magic damage change and a few adjustments to skills and the way elements work could make AMs a lot better. Of course at level 200 you're pretty much done with the class, so I can see why you'd want to move onto something new, but what about for everyone else?

I prefer to see old problems fixed rather than shoved into a corner by new content. A simple magic damage change and a few adjustments to skills and the way elements work could make AMs a lot better. Of course at level 200 you're pretty much done with the class, so I can see why you'd want to move onto something new, but what about for everyone else?

Unfortunately skill updates can only go so far, but i sincerely hope that KMS takes the upgrading adventurer skills route this spring. Not just because "OGM I'M GONNA BE WAY STRONGER NOW DO WANT" but because i just love seeing what they change and how it changes the classes entirely. (marauders went from the worst 3rd job to one of the best 3rd jobs as far as mob damage goes, buccs invincibility frames and damage went through the roof by just lowering DS and barrage delays)

Mages aren't designed to suck at bosses. They're supposed to be weaker than the top DPS classes for sure, but the actual implementation of them is just bad design. For some reason Nexon thinks that classes that use elements should only be useful at monsters that are weak to those elements. If they actually made it so that elements didn't mean everything and that you could actually do close to your max possible damage on neutral monsters, then it wouldn't be so much of a problem. Ele wands weren't even necessary.

I prefer to see old problems fixed rather than shoved into a corner by new content. A simple magic damage change and a few adjustments to skills and the way elements work could make AMs a lot better. Of course at level 200 you're pretty much done with the class, so I can see why you'd want to move onto something new, but what about for everyone else?

I completely agree with everything you said, all of which I've been fighting to prove for ArchMages for the past few years. But alas, like most industries Nexon rarely returns to "upgrade" or "fix" things that were originally of poor design, but rather builds on to the overall content with something that's "new and improved." A lot of my excitement over the Evan class is because it's the first Magician class I feel was designed appropriately and effectively for the gameplay style of MapleStory. In the end it is disappointing such changes never occurred and most likely never will with ArchMages, but to see a general improvement in several aspects in some branch of the Magician family is wonderful.

 Spoiler

On a minor technical note, something "sucking" simply means it does worse than usual/required/expected/etc. In other words, the bottom-tier of most comparative lists will include things that "suck," but that's only because they're last. With this understanding I feel it is appropriate to say current Magicians "suck" at bossing (single target DPS-wise) because they are, in the majority of cases, the worst single-target DPS class in the game.

And of course this really doesn't apply in the grand scheme of things considering Magicians are fantastic at Zakum and Horntail, where ultimate use on multi-part bosses can rack up enormous amounts of damage in a small period of time. It's all relative, I guess, but I still think it's alright to say they "suck" at bossing.

A level 200 Evan can only tank a ~10k hit with HB, and only about a ~16k hit with HB VS an 200 AM who can tank ~13k/~20k. Oh noes!

But wait! Add in their magical shield and Evans can handle ~12k/~19k hits! A 1k discrepancy! Oh noes!

In all honesty, Evan are just as tough as mages when you factor in Magic Resistance.


*My reference for how much Evans can take is based on this pic of an AM's HP and simply applying the different Magic Guards:

OH EHM GEE! 1K

 Quotes

Those are fire weak. Even still, a 150k crit with SE on fire-weak with a skill that's like 240ish power weaker than Meteo is pretty good. Scratch that - all of what I said + the fact that's all done without a fire wand = amazing damage.



I'm literally crying looking at that screenie at 1:11-1:12. That's a combined 127k hit - FROM A MAGICIAN. I hit a 116k crit with Paralyze on a poison-weak mob with Echo, SE, a Banana Graham Pie, and a Poison Wand - at Lv. 200. This Evan hit 127k combined with SE using an elementally neutral skill and, as far as we're aware, no other crazy buffs. I'm SO happy to see this kind of single target damage from Magicians you have no idea. The fact that this class can mob fast enough to be a great training class, has extremely competitive and impressive single target DPS, and have a plethora of useful party skills, makes this, in the end, an amazing representation of Magic-based classes in an RPG.

Only thing we have yet to see is Blaze for comparison, but considering passive Mage crits are working (and SE clearly gives an amazing boost), I'm thinking Illusion just might edge out as the better of the two single target skills. Though throw Ewand5 into the mix and they'll be really close.

Waiting for comparison as well.

Only reason illusion would come out on top at this point though is because the 10 base attack boost that both skills got benefits illusion way more than blaze.

True that. And because, again, crits work more often with multi-hit skills, its DPS might come out on top.

But yeah...Ele wands really do add a ton of damage, and Blaze is immensely stronger than Illusion in terms of base power, so who knows. Of course speed is also a factor too, and I think Blaze is faster, so =/. We'll see!

Oh, and little fun thing too: in the first, what, 30 seconds or so of the video, you can see the Evan use their monster rider to ride their Dragon familiar. So sexy .

Eh. I dunno about crits. It's different for mages than weapon classes. The fact that blaze has really high base attack means that the multiplicative attribute of their crits gives them a ridiculous boost. 100k turns to 170k...

 Spoiler

Why do i feel i'm just stating the obvious when i tell you that though? :/

What i don't get is why they didn't allow us to just ride it constantly and let us use all of our skills while on the dragon. >_> I would have made it just for that.

Illusion may be slower, but don't forget when they crit, they CRIT. I am now awaiting a MP Zerked Evan with an elemental wand. Maybe add an Apple for good measures. 20 second Dark Fog for 1600 MP per cast? YES PLEASE.

Hmmmm, now I need to find a decent Fire E-wand.

Hm. I feel like I need to clear up some things.

1) Blaze was barely improved in this update, with only 10 more base attack (320->330) and no speed change.
2) The more hits = crittability issue only applies to weapon classes, as has been stated; with mages, critical affects everything equally. Therefore, Illusion does not crit better than Blaze. It's true that there will be more crits with Illusion, if you're just counting them, but when Blaze does crit, it crits hard. Look at the Flame Wheel numbers; they'll be slightly higher than that.
3) There is most likely no 10 base attack boost, according to JoeTang's investigation of the Korean characters used to represent "basic attack" and "magic attack".

Keeping this in mind, here's your comparison.

Critical Magic is 1 + 0.25 * 0.7 = 1.175x multiplier
SE alone is 1 + 0.15 * 0.4 = 1.06x multiplier
CM + SE is 1 + 0.4 * 1.1 = 1.44x multiplier

Base Attack * Amp * Critical / (Cast time * Booster coefficient) = final total power

Paralyze: 210 * 1.4 * 1 / (0.8 * 14/16) = 420.0 BA/sec

Illusion: (130 * 4) * 1.35 * 1.175 / (2.01 * 13/16) = 505.1 BA/sec
Blaze: 330 * 1.35 * 1.175 / (1.32 * 13/16) = 488.1 BA/sec
Blaze + Ewand Fire: 488.1 * 1.25 = 610.0 BA/sec

Paralyze + SE: 210 * 1.4 * 1.06 / (0.8 * 14/16) = 445.2 BA/sec
Illusion + SE: (130 * 4) * 1.35 * 1.44 / (2.01 * 13/16) = 619.0 BA/sec
Blaze + SE: 330 * 1.35 * 1.44 / (1.32 * 13/16) = 598.2 BA/sec
Blaze + SE + Ewand Fire: 598.2 * 1.25 = 747.7 BA/sec

-Damage stuff with a few missing-

Para with Ewand poison & CL w/ Ewands lightning stuff pls

Para with Ewand poison & CL w/ Ewands lightning stuff pls

Ah yes. It completely escaped me that Paralyze is elemental too.

Paralyze + SE + Ewand Poison: 445.2 * 1.25 = 556.5 BA/sec

Straightforward calculation, just multiply by 1.25 just as the wand says. In fact since you know that Ewands do the same thing to everything, you could just compare them both without one.
(I actually didn't include Blaze + SE without one, just added that)

I'm not bothering with CL because it's lower than Paralyze regardless. Sorry if it seems like I'm biased against I/L AMs.

Ah yes. It completely escaped me that Paralyze is elemental too.

Paralyze + SE + Ewand Poison: 445.2 * 1.25 = 556.5 BA/sec

Straightforward calculation, just multiply by 1.25 just as the wand says. In fact since you know that Ewands do the same thing to everything, you could just compare them both without one.
(I actually didn't include Blaze + SE without one, just added that)

I'm not bothering with CL because it's lower than Paralyze regardless. Sorry if it seems like I'm biased against I/L AMs.

But CL hits multiple :c
O wait..this is single target dps...

I am really impressed by Blaze's damage with SE, and that doesn't include Dragon Fury (their "Berserk" skill) right?

-Snip-

Very interesting; thanks for the information!

So the rankings go like this:

Without SE, using appropriate Elemental Wands:

1. Blaze
   
2. Paralyze
   
3. Illusion
   

With SE, using appropriate Elemental Wands:

1. Blaze
   
2. Illusion
   
3. Paralyze
   

I know that's already stated above; just putting it into clearer visual terms.

Overall I'm not surprised, but it is interesting to see Paralyze beats Illusion without SE, a skill I doubt Evan will have readily at bosses. Of course, considering MageZerk isn't thrown into the mix, this is all moot; ArchMage single targets are decimated by Evan's.

Point to discuss: when do you ACTUALLY get Blaze? We've seen new skills for every mastery, so you should "apparently" get Blaze at 120, but we have yet to see the skill used after the patch in any videos coming out of Korea. Including the video of a 15x Evan with SE at the Memory of Regrets. I guarantee you anyone killing fire-weak mobs would be itching to show off Blaze damage under those conditions, and the fact that it's not used has me wondering if the skill is actually obtained at 120. It's especially curious since the Evan is using Illusion all the time, which seems to be maxed. Maxed Illusion but no Blaze?

I recognize this is a test server but the chosen Maplers aren't new to the game, and should understand the power of skills.

According to Spadow, the mastery levels go like this:

Lv. 10 → 20 → 30 → 40 → 50 → 60 → 80 → 100 → 120 → 160

Which makes A LOT more sense. It also explains why there hasn't been a single Evan below 160 to use the 10th mastery skills. So the earliest possible level for max Blaze is level 170, unless you can save SP from 9th mastery and use it in 10th, but no one seems to know if that's possible or not.

According to Spadow, the mastery levels go like this:

Lv. 10 → 20 → 30 → 40 → 50 → 60 → 80 → 100 → 120 → 160

Which makes A LOT more sense. It also explains why there hasn't been a single Evan below 160 to use the 10th mastery skills.

Makes.Perfect.Sense. .

So Evan can't start showing off max Blaze damage until 170....it'll be a long haul.

Makes.Perfect.Sense. .

So Evan can't start showing off max Blaze damage until 170....it'll be a long haul.

Makes sense since their growth is only 1 star but potential is 3 stars xD.


PS: How does Dragon Fury work? Is it a 1.1x multiplier?

As long as there is a cooldown of 20 seconds for dark fog, I wouldn't say arch mages are obsolete. We're just less useful that bishops?

I'm way too lazy to read all of the skills or else I'll get an information overload. So the strongest attack Evans use is fire elemental?

As long as there is a cooldown of 20 seconds for dark fog, I wouldn't say arch mages are obsolete. We're just less useful that bishops?

So nothing changes when we get Evans.

I'm way too lazy to read all of the skills or else I'll get an information overload. So the strongest attack Evans use is fire elemental?

Yeah, Flame Wheel and Blaze are their strongest mob and single target attacks respectively. Both are fire element. They also have Earthquake as their AoE skill which is also fire element, and some other charge up fire element attack.

looks like we'll have ele wand 5 inflation. Hurry buy a godly one before Evan patch comes up in gMS and surprises everyone. F3 @ Arans.

Ok... btw Andy don't quit your Corsair. :[[[

Corsairs are proer than evans. F3

Unfortunately skill updates can only go so far, but i sincerely hope that KMS takes the upgrading adventurer skills route this spring. Not just because "OGM I'M GONNA BE WAY STRONGER NOW DO WANT" but because i just love seeing what they change and how it changes the classes entirely. (marauders went from the worst 3rd job to one of the best 3rd jobs as far as mob damage goes, buccs invincibility frames and damage went through the roof by just lowering DS and barrage delays)

I have this sickening feeling that, instead of trying to fix the adventurers, they'll just throw the baby out with the bathwater and start from scratch with this MapleStory sequel project of theirs...

[...] They also have Earthquake as their AoE skill which is also fire element, and some other charge up fire element attack.

Wait, Earthquake is an elemental skill? Are we sure of this? :f6: