Washing + Pink Bean

I played Maple way back in the day. I remember being linked to a very thorough HP Washing guide by a warrior in Maple Sea, who was the first person in their region to hit 30k HP. He credited Tiger with discovering the HP washing method, though clearly this fellow had raped it to a greater extent.

Back then there was debate on whether washing was deliberately coded in, or an accident that the players chanced upon, and seeing that it was mega-profitable, Nexon allowed it to go on. While the issue is pretty much moot at this point -- everybody washes -- I think Pink Bean may be the "official" answer to it.

Put simply, which classes can Pink Bean without washing? I don't know anything about this boss because it's way after my time, but is there any chance of hell of succeeding a PB run WITHOUT most of the characters being washed?

I played Maple way back in the day. I remember being linked to a very thorough HP Washing guide by a warrior in Maple Sea, who was the first person in their region to hit 30k HP. He credited Tiger with discovering the HP washing method, though clearly this fellow had raped it to a greater extent.

Back then there was debate on whether washing was deliberately coded in, or an accident that the players chanced upon, and seeing that it was mega-profitable, Nexon allowed it to go on. While the issue is pretty much moot at this point -- everybody washes -- I think Pink Bean may be the "official" answer to it.

Put simply, which classes can Pink Bean without washing? I don't know anything about this boss because it's way after my time, but is there any chance of hell of succeeding a PB run WITHOUT most of the characters being washed?

magicians,shadowers, and possibly warriors with hb

According to the HP/MP thread, your average Archer/Thief will have 4187 base HP and your average Corsair will have 4527 base HP -- all at level 180. Even with 200 more from the 4th job medal, the Corsair doesn't have enough to take the damage from the super KB that the right wiseman statue does (It does 8k, the 4727 HP Corsair would have 7563 HP with HB) Since evading this attack is more luck based when crossing the map, about the only sure way to not get hit by it is to stand on the right the whole time. That's just not possible to do if you expect to beat it with an hour, or even two.

While Ariel's lasers are possible to dodge, Pink Been himself is a little more erratic. For starters, if he ever faces you, you have to run away or you risk being owned by his 17k big bang-esque attack that has longer range than archers. If he's not facing you, then you have to constantly be living on the edge with his lasers and treble cleffs right above your head. And this all works only if you can keep him exactly where you want him. And who even knows how to deal with his 5k to 15k damage reflect?

So Archers, NLs, and Corsairs aside, a Bucc would have about 14k HP with HB at 180. He couldn't attack some of the statues to begin with, and attempting to attack Pink Been is nothing short of suicide. If he's facing you he'll kill you with 17k big bang. If not, he could kill you with his 22k touch. Shadowers can survive the entire fight with HB and Meso Guard, but they can't attack Ariel (can't reach) or Pink Been (same reason as buccs).

Here's the kicker. Level 180 non-Hero Warriors would have about 18627 HP with HB, with Heroes at about 500 HP more than that. Even with max Achilles, Warriors wouldn't have enough HP to take touch damage from the bean. Warriors also suffer from range problems at Hugin, Munin, and Ariel.

Mages, with about 3579 HP with HB (and the 4th job medal), could skate by PB's big bang attack, if only sometimes (3579*5=17895). They wouldn't be close enough to take touch damage, they would be able to attack Hugin and Munin without making those statues go crazy, and they could survive anything else that needs to be survived. In kMS, these guys would probably do top-tier damage to PB because of his physical resistance.

So if you bring in nothing but parties of 5 mages and 1 DK (make him not attack during the bean), it could probably be done. No class other than Mages could both attack and survive the whole time, though.

^Can you run that again assuming level 200, the 4th job medal, and HTP/200ish HP pendant?

I'll have a little over 5.5k HP at level 200 with the Quest medal, and 5.7k with the Master Adventurer Medal. If we assume HP equipment comes standard, how does that change things?

(I'm unwashed and never plan to touch the HP up button.)

^Can you run that again assuming level 200, the 4th job medal, and HTP/200ish HP pendant?

I'll have a little over 5.5k HP at level 200 with the Quest medal, and 5.7k with the Master Adventurer Medal. If we assume HP equipment comes standard, how does that change things?

(I'm unwashed and never plan to touch the HP up button.)

Well, for sure the range would be able to take the right wiseman statue hit. Other than that, they'd be living on the edge with Pink Been and Arial's attacks (and they would continue to live on that same edge until about 7.3k base HP). I wouldn't say it's undoable, but you'd have to be both lucky and good to stay alive for that long, or even half that long. Also... damage reflect? I still think you just need to get lucky every time he casts this.

Buccs and Shadowers would still have the same problems. They have to HP wash if they want to get anything done.

If we assume that Warriors get enough HP to tank the Bean, everything gets simpler. The DrKs can attack (albeit not very well) and the other warriors can participate in most of the fight. Still, it's hard to reach Ariel and impossible to reach Hugin or Munin. However, now there are living warriors to draw aggro away from the people without Stance.

Mages can still survive and do well.

Those extra 20 levels and the other things you specified allow most of the classes to reach the threshold they need to do their basic jobs. However, everyone (especially the range) is at a huge risk of dying at all times during phase 6. Mages are probably the only class that are any kind of "safe." Still don't know what the about damage reflect, though.

Mages, with about 3579 HP with HB (and the 4th job medal), could skate by PB's big bang attack, if only sometimes (3579*5=17895). They wouldn't be close enough to take touch damage, they would be able to attack Hugin and Munin without making those statues go crazy, and they could survive anything else that needs to be survived. In kMS, these guys would probably do top-tier damage to PB because of his physical resistance.

So if you bring in nothing but parties of 5 mages and 1 DK (make him not attack during the bean), it could probably be done. No class other than Mages could both attack and survive the whole time, though.

It's plausible with that format. If you take 24 F/P Arch Mages, they would have to do around 63,333,333 damage per minute, or a total of 823,293 damage every Paralyze as a group (assuming Paralyze hits 83 times per minute w/o interruption), or 34,303 per person the whole battle to finish the fight.

As for damage reflect, mages are probably the only class that can do constant damage during damage reflect as damage reflected by Mana Reflection doesn't activate PB's damage reflect.

And with MoNs and HP noses, a 17x or 18x mage can easily survive 22k damage w/ HB. For me, I have 2624 HP with my HP shield (2519 without) and I can survive up to 20990 damage with it at 151.

Still don't know what the about damage reflect, though.

I recall reading that PB's damage reflect works in a similar manner to Balrog's damage reflect; i.e. it has a very obvious animation, it has a set duration and cooldown, and he'll almost always use it immediately after it cools down. If that's the case, then you can have one person act as a timer and remind everyone when to stop attacking. Although there's a lot of complications with that. Balrog can be easily defeated within the given time frame, so squads can afford to wait around while Balrog casts DR for the first time. Not so with PB. And then there's the average player's capacity to deal with all the things that you have to watch out for at PB. At Balrog most people can't even do something as simple as stop attacking. PB is confined to a less nooby crowd, but between all the dodging attacks and making sure he stays facing one way, it's really impossible to make sure everyone can stay alive.

Even though most of the time I like to call BS on people who claim that having more HP = more survivability, PB is just way too much.

Remember all: An Aran can potentially lower all damage dealt to a party by 20%.

And an Evan takes away 20% magic (also 30% overall, but that's for 20 seconds and has a 40 second cooldown).

Reading this is really discouraging.

I recall reading that PB's damage reflect works in a similar manner to Balrog's damage reflect; i.e. it has a very obvious animation, it has a set duration and cooldown, and he'll almost always use it immediately after it cools down. If that's the case, then you can have one person act as a timer and remind everyone when to stop attacking. Although there's a lot of complications with that. Balrog can be easily defeated within the given time frame, so squads can afford to wait around while Balrog casts DR for the first time. Not so with PB. And then there's the average player's capacity to deal with all the things that you have to watch out for at PB. At Balrog most people can't even do something as simple as stop attacking. PB is confined to a less nooby crowd, but between all the dodging attacks and making sure he stays facing one way, it's really impossible to make sure everyone can stay alive.

Even though most of the time I like to call BS on people who claim that having more HP = more survivability, PB is just way too much.

I haven't fought Balrog yet, but I've fought quite a few Lilynouch. And from what I know about his damage reflect is that the reflection starts right when the animation for that skill starts. I've not yet been able to stop before reflecting damage at least once. The difference is that Pink Been will do it the whole fight and it will kill you. There's not really enough time on the timer to just not attack for half of your encounter with him, but if you do attack everyone will be dead. It's pretty unfair.

If you're able to keep PB facing right all the time, it'll only do 1/1 and big bang toward the right, so hp for ranged characters won't really be an issue. DR can be timed like with rog and black witch. Maybe it'll rain tombstones the first time, but everyone can just wheel back. The only real random thing that should kill ranged during statues is when everyone crosses the map, you get unlucky, and PB casts the magic att buff that makes the lightning do like 10k damage. It probably rarely happens though considering how many other skills with extremely long animations it has.

According to the HP/MP thread, your average Archer/Thief will have 4187 base HP and your average Corsair will have 4527 base HP -- all at level 180. Even with 200 more from the 4th job medal, the Corsair doesn't have enough to take the damage from the super KB that the right wiseman statue does (It does 8k, the 4727 HP Corsair would have 7563 HP with HB) Since evading this attack is more luck based when crossing the map, about the only sure way to not get hit by it is to stand on the right the whole time. That's just not possible to do if you expect to beat it with an hour, or even two.

While Ariel's lasers are possible to dodge, Pink Been himself is a little more erratic. For starters, if he ever faces you, you have to run away or you risk being owned by his 17k big bang-esque attack that has longer range than archers. If he's not facing you, then you have to constantly be living on the edge with his lasers and treble cleffs right above your head. And this all works only if you can keep him exactly where you want him. And who even knows how to deal with his 5k to 15k damage reflect?

So Archers, NLs, and Corsairs aside, a Bucc would have about 14k HP with HB at 180. He couldn't attack some of the statues to begin with, and attempting to attack Pink Been is nothing short of suicide. If he's facing you he'll kill you with 17k big bang. If not, he could kill you with his 22k touch. Shadowers can survive the entire fight with HB and Meso Guard, but they can't attack Ariel (can't reach) or Pink Been (same reason as buccs).

Here's the kicker. Level 180 non-Hero Warriors would have about 18627 HP with HB, with Heroes at about 500 HP more than that. Even with max Achilles, Warriors wouldn't have enough HP to take touch damage from the bean. Warriors also suffer from range problems at Hugin, Munin, and Ariel.

Mages, with about 3579 HP with HB (and the 4th job medal), could skate by PB's big bang attack, if only sometimes (3579*5=17895). They wouldn't be close enough to take touch damage, they would be able to attack Hugin and Munin without making those statues go crazy, and they could survive anything else that needs to be survived. In kMS, these guys would probably do top-tier damage to PB because of his physical resistance.

So if you bring in nothing but parties of 5 mages and 1 DK (make him not attack during the bean), it could probably be done. No class other than Mages could both attack and survive the whole time, though.

I don't think warriors will have much of an issue with hp, PB moves like as slow as a snail, combined with an archmage's slow and the fact that it spams attacks make it basically a immobile but rushable boss that can turn around. Heroes and paladins also have powerguard along with achilles for touches. Non-hp washed dark knights having difficulty crossing after wheeling back is a problem though, but most dark knights have tons of hp anyways. HBing ranged characters isn't really needed because all they should get hit with is 1/1 if pink bean faces right and summons are under control. You're right about buccaneers, but maybe if they can time their barrages precisely, they can dodge big bang because of how slow it is.

Everything is based on keeping PB facing right though, so if a way to have that happen with ranged attacking from behind is figured out, the rest is just up to dealing enough damage. Drawing aggravation without KBing seems to be based on distance and amount of individual damage dealt (like 1 slash of brandish or 1 star of triple throw), red nirg would make a good test subject with its high KB and attack similarities to a right-facing PB.

I haven't fought Balrog yet, but I've fought quite a few Lilynouch. And from what I know about his damage reflect is that the reflection starts right when the animation for that skill starts. I've not yet been able to stop before reflecting damage at least once. The difference is that Pink Been will do it the whole fight and it will kill you. There's not really enough time on the timer to just not attack for half of your encounter with him, but if you do attack everyone will be dead. It's pretty unfair.

Balrog operates like this:

After he reaches the point where he can start casting DR, you wait, and only attack him during his animations. Then, when he uses DR, one person keeps track of the time. Say he uses it at 13:37. DR lasts 7 seconds, so you wait until 13:30 and the DR will disappear. Everyone begins attacking again. DR takes 1 minute to cool down, so at around 12:40, the time keeper reminds everyone to stop attacking. Everyone waits until he casts it again, and a new time is recorded. It's not about reactions, it's about timing.

If you're able to keep PB facing right all the time, it'll only do 1/1 and big bang toward the right, so hp for ranged characters won't really be an issue. DR can be timed like with rog and black witch. Maybe it'll rain tombstones the first time, but everyone can just wheel back. The only real random thing that should kill ranged during statues is when everyone crosses the map, you get unlucky, and PB casts the magic att buff that makes the lightning do like 10k damage. It probably rarely happens though considering how many other skills with extremely long animations it has.

I still don't think avoiding his beams and cleffs will be as easy as consistently easy as you say it is. I haven't really fought it long enough during 6th phase to test it out, but I have a feeling that something unexpected will happen. Like, for example, while he was finishing our group off, I swear I saw all the beams appear from the floor a few times, even though some of them are supposed to start higher: on Pink Beans throne.

Also, we don't have any arch-mages in our group. Maybe we should get one.

Would it be possible, due to Snipe's Static damage, to have a Marksman be Blooded to have enough HP to tank the right side and still be able to keep the aggro due to Snipe?

I still don't think avoiding his beams and cleffs will be as easy as consistently easy as you say it is. I haven't really fought it long enough during 6th phase to test it out, but I have a feeling that something unexpected will happen. Like, for example, while he was finishing our group off, I swear I saw all the beams appear from the floor a few times, even though some of them are supposed to start higher: on Pink Beans throne.

Also, we don't have any arch-mages in our group. Maybe we should get one.

now now alex, we all know data doesnt lie, we just fail at maple and cant avoid its very obvious and avoidable attacks.

I still don't think avoiding his beams and cleffs will be as easy as consistently easy as you say it is. I haven't really fought it long enough during 6th phase to test it out, but I have a feeling that something unexpected will happen. Like, for example, while he was finishing our group off, I swear I saw all the beams appear from the floor a few times, even though some of them are supposed to start higher: on Pink Beans throne.

Also, we don't have any arch-mages in our group. Maybe we should get one.

Like grims, thanatos, oblivion guardians, etc. it can't cast area warning attacks while facing right. Having it turn left is a bad thing anyways since it can big bang ranged attackers.

An archmage or two would be useful because once it starts summoning mini beans 12 at a time, only like the first 6 will be shredded through before the sky becomes engulfed in 1s.

Would it be possible, due to Snipe's Static damage, to have a Marksman be Blooded to have enough HP to tank the right side and still be able to keep the aggro due to Snipe?

Yes, technically. Just find us a Marksman with 23k HP after HB.

Mages, with about 3579 HP with HB (and the 4th job medal), could skate by PB's big bang attack, if only sometimes (3579*5=17895). They wouldn't be close enough to take touch damage, they would be able to attack Hugin and Munin without making those statues go crazy, and they could survive anything else that needs to be survived. In kMS, these guys would probably do top-tier damage to PB because of his physical resistance.

That's a pretty bad estimation of what mages have. According to this:

HP/level: 10-14

2nd job advancement:
Minimum HP: Level*10+64
Minimum MP: Level*22+488

at level 30, the minimum amount of HP a mage has is 364. Assuming this mage gains an average of 12 HP per level, that means at level 180, a mage has 2164 HP already. Add a MoN and a Master Adventuer Medal and that mage will have 2664 HP. Add HB and that mage has 4262 HP. That's enough to survive 4262 x 5 = 21310 damage. If that's not enough, level the mage to 200 and the mage will have 4646 HP with HB. That's enough to survive 23232 damage, well over the requirement for Pink Bean.

That's a pretty bad estimation of what mages have. According to this:

at level 30, the minimum amount of HP a mage has is 364. Assuming this mage gains an average of 12 HP per level, that means at level 180, a mage has 2164 HP already. Add a MoN and a Master Adventuer Medal and that mage will have 2664 HP. Add HB and that mage has 4262 HP. That's enough to survive 4262 x 5 = 21310 damage. If that's not enough, level the mage to 200 and the mage will have 4646 HP with HB. That's enough to survive 23232 damage, well over the requirement for Pink Bean.

You're a bad estimation!

I purposely didn't add MoNs because KMS doesn't have them and gMS being able to survive PB is not the issue here. Otherwise, I followed what you quoted perfectly and am well aware that a MoN will add an extra 460 HP with HB.