Wash # = hp for pb?

Youre making it sound way too easy. If it was as easy as you're making it out to be then people wouldn't be washing in the first place.

Also there's a difference between knowing something is coming and avoiding it all together.

Problem is, not many people know about the pattern or how to dodge the beams. Most people just assume that there's no way to avoid certain attacks in PB and put way too much emphasis on hp washing, which isn't even really that helpful unless you can get like 18k or 23k+ after hyperbody, which just isn't very realistic. Yes, it's possible to get hit with 10k damage while crossing (PB's magic/attack up buff strangely started working a couple patches ago), but that only unavoidably happens when crossing left anyways, so you can just wheel across.

Problem is, not many people know about the pattern or how to dodge the beams. Most people just assume that there's no way to avoid certain attacks in PB and put way too much emphasis on hp washing, which isn't even really that helpful unless you can get like 18k or 23k+ after hyperbody, which just isn't very realistic. Yes, it's possible to get hit with 10k damage while crossing (PB's magic/attack up buff strangely started working a couple patches ago), but that only unavoidably happens when crossing left anyways, so you can just wheel across.

You act like you're the only person whose put in the time and effort of meticulously looking for signs and ways to avoid them. I know just within the group that I ran with spent hours looking for ways to do their best and knowing what you're doing while in there.

The issue is, we don't have the benefit of being given multiple tries like a test server. When you're in there it's good to know what you're getting into, but acting on that and applying it are different.

All I'm saying is you're making it sound too easy. It's incredibly difficult when every time you're going in there is a new learning curve.

I'm talking to general maplers who think you need a ridiculous amount of hp just to participate in a PB run, which is not true at all. Of course things may be difficult in the beginning, but it is very possible to pull off avoiding certain things consistently. You already know the hardest boss battle in the game requires near perfection to succeed in. Info can be pulled from the wz files and other people's experiences, and actually being there is the test of whether or not you can apply them. A lot of gMS groups were able to kill off all the statues on like their second tries, which would obviously not have happened if they had just gone in blindly the first time, even without knowing things like Ariel's attacking patterns or the oak barrel trick.

Problem is, not many people know about the pattern or how to dodge the beams.

I do, in fact, agree with you that you must avoid stuff whenever you can, because that's just common sense, and good bossing.

However...

Bossing in Maple is about having enough HP to constantly take damage, because that's just how it works. That's why you constantly hear people asking "How much HP do I need to survive ______ ?" People KNOW they're going to take damage. It's inevitable. Pap, Zak, Pianus, Ergoth, Scarlion Targa...doesn't matter. In all of the boss fights I've been in, dodging the bosses attacks isn't a sound method of survival. Going into PB with low HP and suggesting that surviving is easy if you know how to avoid his attacks is just plain silly. Dodging boss attacks has never been a sound tactic in Maple bosses, ever. You take damage, that's just how it goes. And when that damage is 17k+ in some instances, that's an OHKO for 90% of the maple community. Telling us to constantly avoid OHKO over the course of 2 hour long (or however long PB is) battle is just not logical, it's unrealistic. Scarlion is a prime example. Granted he's loads easier than Targa, the thing I have to be the most careful of is his touch damage, which isn't all that hard to avoid, considering I'm an archer. But, we usually take two rushers (sometimes one, lolololo Sha) and that keeps him pinned pretty well, for the most part. But the kicker is his reverse controls in third form. When he reverses our rushers, if they're not paying attention to their direction, we all die from being bowled over by Scarlion's 8k touch.
...
But there is, in no way, any possibility of surviving PB solely on avoid his lethal strikes. At some point during that hour of swapping sides and massive damage dealing, there will be a hit, be it hard or soft, that you simply cannot avoid. Hell, after watching Villains' six-part run, the video maker had about 8 wheels of destiny for this very reason. Point in case, 95% of surviving a boss fight in Maple is making sure you have adequate HP to take a hit and still live, not your damage-dodging skills.

(Apologies for some repetitiveness, if there is any)

I do, in fact, agree with you that you must avoid stuff whenever you can, because that's just common sense, and good bossing.

However...

Bossing in Maple is about having enough HP to constantly take damage, because that's just how it works. That's why you constantly hear people asking "How much HP do I need to survive ______ ?" People KNOW they're going to take damage. It's inevitable. Pap, Zak, Pianus, Ergoth, Scarlion Targa...doesn't matter. In all of the boss fights I've been in, dodging the bosses attacks isn't a sound method of survival. Going into PB with low HP and suggesting that surviving is easy if you know how to avoid his attacks is just plain silly. Dodging boss attacks has never been a sound tactic in Maple bosses, ever. You take damage, that's just how it goes. And when that damage is 17k+ in some instances, that's an OHKO for 90% of the maple community. Telling us to constantly avoid OHKO over the course of 2 hour long (or however long PB is) battle is just not logical, it's unrealistic. Scarlion is a prime example. Granted he's loads easier than Targa, the thing I have to be the most careful of is his touch damage, which isn't all that hard to avoid, considering I'm an archer. But, we usually take two rushers (sometimes one, lolololo Sha) and that keeps him pinned pretty well, for the most part. But the kicker is his reverse controls in third form. When he reverses our rushers, if they're not paying attention to their direction, we all die from being bowled over by Scarlion's 8k touch.
...
But there is, in no way, any possibility of surviving PB solely on avoid his lethal strikes. At some point during that hour of swapping sides and massive damage dealing, there will be a hit, be it hard or soft, that you simply cannot avoid. Hell, after watching Villains' six-part run, the video maker had about 8 wheels of destiny for this very reason. Point in case, 95% of surviving a boss fight in Maple is making sure you have adequate HP to take a hit and still live, not your damage-dodging skills.

(Apologies for some repetitiveness, if there is any)

Pink bean isn't like all other maple bosses. Of course there is an hp requirement, that's for unavoidable damage. Horntail leg stomps do more than the hp requirement for ranged because ranged attackers are not supposed to be hit by the stomp. Same thing for certain attacks in PB. Sorry that PB may actually be a tiny bit of a challenge to survive, but that's how it is considering it's currently the strongest boss in the game, even in a game like Maple. Some parts don't just comprise of sitting there and taking the damage like other bosses (though about the majority of the statue fight is). The challenge of defeating it is the combination of each runner's near-perfection as well as damage-dealing. 23k laser damage or 18k big bang damageYour scarlion experience is the exact reason pink bean actually is challenging. Everyone has to be paying attention; one person not paying attention could cause the whole run to fail. An easy example is activating seduce in phase 4. Mistakes are what wheels of destiny are for.

you think that by reading some extractions you know everything, i am sorry that you cant beleive those that actually been there. it isnt "easy" to dodge pb or ariels beams, it is possible, and we all try, but sure as hell it is not "easy". what YOU think because you read some extractions or watched some videos have no weight over those of us that actually tried a few times say. real life experience says more than a thousand graphs or little drawings.

bottom line. IT IS NOT EASY. it can be done, it has been done since obv most of us dont have the hp for it, but please dont spout nonesense about something you dont know when we tell you you are wrong.

in case i forgot to tell you

IT IS NOT EASY

HP isn't always a requirement...

http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=425

you think that by reading some extractions you know everything, i am sorry that you cant beleive those that actually been there. it isnt "easy" to dodge pb or ariels beams, it is possible, and we all try, but sure as hell it is not "easy". what YOU think because you read some extractions or watched some videos have no weight over those of us that actually tried a few times say. real life experience says more than a thousand graphs or little drawings.

bottom line. IT IS NOT EASY. it can be done, it has been done since obv most of us dont have the hp for it, but please dont spout nonesense about something you dont know when we tell you you are wrong.

in case i forgot to tell you

IT IS NOT EASY

Either you're just doing it wrong, or you're just plain not good at reacting. Use the top platform to shift your screen to the right so you can actually see first, then go back down to the little platform to attack. When you see a skill being cast, double jump down and duck. You have a good 3-5 seconds to do this, which is way more than enough. The 23k damage of the beams and the insanely long stuns of the rocks are the neon signs that scream, you're not supposed to actually get hit by these.

Either you're just doing it wrong, or you're just plain not good at reacting. Use the top platform to shift your screen to the right so you can actually see first, then go back down to the little platform to attack. When you see a skill being cast, double jump down and duck. You have a good 3-5 seconds to do this, which is way more than enough. The 23k damage of the beams and the insanely long stuns of the rocks are the neon signs that scream, you're not supposed to actually get hit by these.

i think talking to you and to a wall has the same effect. go kill PB yourself then talk crap. its not 3-5 secs its 2 secs, 3 tops. how do i know, i been there. doesnt matter though it is obvious that you who has never tried it know it all and those of us that actually fought PB and had to try evade the attacks are just dumb shaved monkeys. delude yourself for all i care i am done trying to get you out of your ignorance.

Congratulations on trying to kill PB, but saying that you have 2-3 seconds to react is just a downright lie. I checked the delays, and the skills last 2.28/2.4 seconds, while the attack itself takes 1.92 seconds to land the hit. So I actually underestimated, you have well over 4 seconds to react, which is a really, really long time. Either you just didn't know about it, or you were wayyy too slow. And don't try to discredit the data because it never lies, and what it tells you is exactly what happens in-game.

Because we all know the data > hands on experience.

Nigga please...
i wonder if this is the same data where the new rog boss does reflect before casting it, or the same data where we all got banned at PB yet you claim nothing was changed. yes it never lies, but its freaking messed up.

The 23k damage of the beams and the insanely long stuns of the rocks are the neon signs that scream, you're not supposed to actually get hit by these.

Keywords "not supposed to...". Just because you're not supposed to get hit by them doesn't mean you won't. Once again, relying on your damage dodging skills to keep you alive at any boss in Maple is just plain silly. Maple doesn't work like that. You're reading too much into that, plus you give Nexon entirely too much credit.

HP isn't always a requirement...

http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=425

Comparing surviving pap to surviving PB means absolutely nothing, and is completely and totally irrelevant to this conversation. It's like comparing Mano with Zakum; it just makes no sense. Pap has 27m health and does 5k max damages for a 20 minute solo (for me). In PB, you have to take down 7.65b health total with 30+ people in under an hour. That guide is amazing for Pap, but has no place here. You can't use the aspect of that guide to back an argument in this thread. The fights are nothing alike, at all.

Because we all know the data > hands on experience.

Nigga please...
i wonder if this is the same data where the new rog boss does reflect before casting it, or the same data where we all got banned at PB yet you claim nothing was changed. yes it never lies, but its freaking messed up.

The PB ban was caused by GMs messing with the server side of it so they could play around with it, kind of like the missing rope at the bent tree map ban. What do you mean by rog boss doing reflect before casting it?

Keywords "not supposed to...". Just because you're not supposed to get hit by them doesn't mean you won't. Once again, relying on your damage dodging skills to keep you alive at any boss in Maple is just plain silly. Maple doesn't work like that. You're reading too much into that, plus you give Nexon entirely too much credit.



Comparing surviving pap to surviving PB means absolutely nothing, and is completely and totally irrelevant to this conversation. It's like comparing Mano with Zakum; it just makes no sense. Pap has 27m health and does 5k max damages for a 20 minute solo (for me). In PB, you have to take down 7.65b health total with 30+ people in under an hour. That guide is amazing for Pap, but has no place here. You can't use the aspect of that guide to back an argument in this thread. The fights are nothing alike, at all.

You're not making any sense at all; not supposed to be hit means just that. Same thing applies to things like anego and bodyguard A for ranged characters. Of course people walking in without knowing what's going on are going to be hit. Comparing pap soloing with less than 4k hp to ariel as a ranged character in phase 5 of the PB fight is a perfect comparison, seeing as you have to avoid bomb explosions in pap like you have to avoid laser beams from ariel. The boss's hp or whatever have nothing to do with that.

[YOUTUBE]GaQa3RlQci0[/YOUTUBE]

2 minutes in. Tell me that from the moment the skill is activated that we have 4+ seconds to react? Cus to me it looks like the timer reads "6:27" when the gen sign comes up, and then some of us die at "6:26"

[YOUTUBE]GaQa3RlQci0[/YOUTUBE]

2 minutes in. Tell me that from the moment the skill is activated that we have 4+ seconds to react? Cus to me it looks like the timer reads "6:27" when the gen sign comes up, and then some of us die at "6:26"

The filmer's too far to see when a skill's being cast at that point. He only moves closer later in the video. Some spots include where the skill's being cast at 3:28 and the attack hits at 3:32 (video time), 3:37 to 3:41, 4:45 (kinda obscured but you can still see it) to 4:49, 5:03 to 5:07, etc. That's a ton of time to get out of the way.

The filmer's too far to see when a skill's being cast at that point. He only moves closer later in the video. Some spots include where the skill's being cast at 3:28 and the attack hits at 3:32 (video time), 3:37 to 3:41, 4:45 (kinda obscured but you can still see it) to 4:49, 5:03 to 5:07, etc. That's a ton of time to get out of the way.

now im confused. 5:03-5:07 there is no gen attack. it's a 1/1 attack. and where range stands, irc, you cant see the center of ariel very well. not to mention all the nl stars hitting ariel making it even harder to see.

now im confused. 5:03-5:07 there is no gen attack. it's a 1/1 attack. and where range stands, irc, you cant see the center of ariel very well. not to mention all the nl stars hitting ariel making it even harder to see.

The two attacks are both area warning attacks and are treated the same way, as in both of them have to be separated by skill casts, and wouldn't you want to dodge 1/1 anyways? The 10?-second stun is like about the time it takes to wheel back and rebuff anyways, except without losing echo. To shift your screen to see ariel, just climb to the top and jumpdown back down, or you can even stay there if you'd like, I'm sure there's enough time for archers to jump down to the ground and walk left a bit to duck, and it doesn't even matter for night lords or corsairs due to flash jump and recoil.

The two attacks are both area warning attacks and are treated the same way, as in both of them have to be separated by skill casts, and wouldn't you want to dodge 1/1 anyways? The 10?-second stun is like about the time it takes to wheel back and rebuff anyways, except without losing echo. To shift your screen to see ariel, just climb to the top and jumpdown back down, or you can even stay there if you'd like, I'm sure there's enough time for archers to jump down to the ground and walk left a bit to duck, and it doesn't even matter for night lords or corsairs due to flash jump and recoil.

Question: Are you saying that every single time Ariel casts 1/1 or the beams, she has to cast some kind of skill beforehand? In that case shouldn't you edit your opinion to say that the skill she casts before the beams + the beams is 4 seconds instead of saying that the beams themselves take 4 seconds?

i am looking at the video, her fisrt attack starts at 3.03 she guards, then right after at 3.04 she booms and everyone is dead by 3.06. thats not 4 seconds anywhere.

at 3.31 she moves her hands not 3.28, next she casts it at 3.40 not 3.37. next then is 4.48 not 4.45. and i am done checking, here are ss of the screen on those second i say please check the hands and the circle beggin to apear.

i see her glow and not do gen at 5.51 so the glow is not part of gen.

some pics to prove my point.
3.28 nothing is happening yet

 Spoiler

3.31 she does the circle with her hands

 Spoiler

3.33 everyone eats a bag of dirt and dies

 Spoiler

elvis just left the building.

Question: Are you saying that every single time Ariel casts 1/1 or the beams, she has to cast some kind of skill beforehand? In that case shouldn't you edit your opinion to say that the skill she casts before the beams + the beams is 4 seconds instead of saying that the beams themselves take 4 seconds?

Okay, quoting myself to prove that it's not true. Check WhyteBar's video of the first time we did PB.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeXkjypRP2k

 Here it is

[YOUTUBE]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EeXkjypRP2k&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EeXkjypRP2k&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

Watch from 7 minutes on. Specifically at 8:58, 9:06, and 10:20 she casts the beams or the rocks without first casting any buff. I'm pretty sure this disproves the question I asked earlier. So, combine that with the argument Carlos just posted, in what way is this 4 seconds again?