Bossing Ability Chart

Guys. Stop arguing, or I'll lolreport both of you. Even worse, this thread might get locked, and Dusk will have to make a new thread.

Oh wow wasn't expecting that to happen. Anyway, I've started working on it. I might need help with bosses that I haven't had much experience with (HT/PB).

I've given Stereo's post some consideration, but I don't fully agree with the way that he set it up. It's hard to objectively figure out just how much damage output each class has at a boss with similar equips and it sometimes can come down to skill. I consider BMs way better than Corsairs at fighting a boss like Lilynouch, even though their kill speeds wouldn't be very different. Also, having too many gradients would make it more confusing, and some boxes would be tough judgment calls.

Oh wow wasn't expecting that to happen. Anyway, I've started working on it. I might need help with bosses that I haven't had much experience with (HT/PB).

I've given Stereo's post some consideration, but I don't fully agree with the way that he set it up. It's hard to objectively figure out just how much damage output each class has at a boss with similar equips and it sometimes can come down to skill.

Just putting out ideas, what works or doesn't work is a lesser consideration. Anyway with the categories I proposed it's not looking for great accuracy, so things that only affect +-20% on damage wouldn't change the rating other than "who's the best".


Maybe it's just a disagreement on the term 'mediocre' I considered it to mean around average or only a little below. When the spread is like 160k/s (Corsair) to 20k/s (Bishop) the Bishop can kill it but it's gonna be unreasonably slow, not just average. Blue-green-yellow works if it is "good" "normal" "bad" with red "impossible".

Are you going to include level ranges? or go by the level of the boss or something? It's obvious that a lvl 150 Corsair is gonna outdo a lvl 130 Corsair at something like Zakum by the mere fact that more skills are maxed.

The whole "NL is the greatest" bs needs to end. They are nothing without SE, so please stop including a skill they dont get to cast by themselves.

On that note, will there be different tables based on who else is in the party? Seems like this could get really complicated because party boss fights can be extremely varied.

I think this is only going to include soloing. Adding in the variability of parties makes things way. too. complicated.

Maybe for party bossing, there could be a column on the side, saying what party skills the class is assumed to be getting. Or you could do something like:

NLs (with SE)
NLs (w/o SE)
DrKs (w/ SI)
....

Although that seems like it would get to be a pretty long table. There are considerations like, a BM who is getting Healed is better than one who has to pot on their own, because they don't have to stop/restart Hurricane as often.

Also, for party bossing, is it going to be by how helpful a class is in actually dealing damage to a boss, or how helpful the class is to others in the party, or a combination of both? Because besides the obvious Bishops, Buccaneers would have a different rating according to that difference, I think...

Or you could list the classes that are most helpful to that class when party bossing out on the side, though I think you'd have to put Bishops on just about every class for, if not Heal if a DrK is Zerking, then Dispel and Res, and to a lesser extent, Bless and Holy Shield. Most every good party skill is loved by everyone, but some more than others... HB and Smokescreen come to mind. But there are also some that are okay/good for some classes and useless/bad to others... Rage/Medi, Heal, SI. Maybe you could color code: green = extremely helpful, yellow = helpful, red = bad. (Useless would not be listed.) Anyway, this system would mean that you could (fuzzily) find the classes best at helping others by seeing how many times their skills are mentioned in this column... Or just make this all into another table, but that's starting to get pretty complicated and not as relevant to the original topic. (EDIT: Okay, apparently there was a sentence about this in the original post, but I forgot about it by the time I read to the end of the thread.)


An idea I had is two columns on the far right, say, that sum up the general pros and cons of each class during bossing. So you could say, for mages/bishops, "relies on MG", because they are vulnerable to Dispel, large hits, and 1/1, being unable to be "saved" by Heal. Or "low HP" for Bowmasters. Or, heck, "Alchemist for apples" for NLs. You could bold the ones that are most important, such as low DPS for Bishops, which is the HUGE, elephant-in-the-room reason they suck at solo bossing. (Obviously.)

I don't think there's a need to get into details with DPS in this chart... Aside from obvious factors like elemental weaknesses/resistance, it seems like most of the factors which would increase or decrease your DPS are the same factors that would make it hard to survive. (I'm thinking NLs at Bigfoot, jumping away from him and DSing to let him pass. In this case, high touch damage is the reason for both the harder play style and the lower DPS.)

Or you could just put "high DPS" or "low DPS" into the columns for general pros/cons. We aren't being exact here, so just putting "high" under, say, NLs, BMs, and Corsairs (maybe Heroes?), "low except with elemental advantage" under Archmages and Paladins, and "low" under Bishops would suffice for me. Or a "star" rating for DPS, out of, say, four stars.


Sorry for the rambling post... Just throwing around some ideas... I think that characterizing party bossing will be a lot harder than solo bossing, but I also think it's more important, since most of the bigger/more fun bosses are usually done in parties (CWKPQ, HT, and PB obviously require parties, and Zak is much faster with a party).

I think this is only going to include soloing. Adding in the variability of parties makes things way. too. complicated.

Nah, I was thinking for Zakum I could do like
Zakum (arms only)
Zakum (normal run)
Zakum (solo)

With parties you can just assume the buffs will be there, or footnote them in.

Any boss except for BF and Rellik: Nightlord (/Walker) with SE + Onyx apple will come out best...

Reasons:
- 65% Critical rate with SE -> best of all classes in-game
- Fastest spam attack in-game (Triple Throw + SP) (read: none is faster, except for weaker hits)
- Has lowest base weapon attack in-game -> Onyx apple is most effective fior NL/NW
- Alchemist + Onyx apple = Best onyx apple user in-game
- Dark Sight = Best ability to avoid high touch damage in-game
- At PB, you NEED the NL+SE+Onyx Combination, because other classes don't do enough DPM to kill it under 1 hour, bye bye gametactics here, all you need is a washed NL+SE+Onyx...

Sad but true... Maplestory is teameffort/teamplay is a 1-dimensional way... there is only 1 winner, always... No matter how hard you try, Nexon just fails4life at -ANY- form of class balancing regarding to bosses, especially Nexon America... :')

I notice this so hard on my Nightwalker... My Shadower is lvl 150, but even when I would get him to lvl 200, my NW+SE+Onyx will outdamage him and I'm using the same equips for both... so fcking annoying in a way... though in a way... I'm glad I have a DPM wh()re class now...

NL MAY be good, i think corsairs win. On battleship they get the most bonus out of apples. Though the ratio 12atkpot/100atkpot might be higher for NL but the actual dmg boost is probably higher for corsairs. they have low watt and very high skill power.

Anyways, i think corsairs are just too good. Only bad part about them is having max hp would sort of weaken them b/c battleship wont last long with those 1/1 attacks from pb or w/e boss.

You have good points, but in my opinion Corsairs are better. Just my opinion.

Quit whining abt "Wa NLS are the best"
*Spits on floor*
They are a piece of poop w/o SE.
So without (X)BM u guys suuck

So are you gonna make the chart or what?

So are you gonna make the chart or what?

It's only been two days. I made a frame and got bored. I'll definitely get it done soon, though. I just have more important/interesting things to do at the moment.

Quit whining abt "Wa NLS are the best"
*Spits on floor*
They are a piece of poop w/o SE.
So without (X)BM u guys suuck

The whole "NL is the greatest" bs needs to end. They are nothing without SE, so please stop including a skill they dont get to cast by themselves.

While NLs do benefit greatly from SE, it's kind of ignorant to claim they are nothing without it. I have never agreed with the crap about NLs being the best class, but even without SE it slaps the fingers of some others in several situations. It's great that people finally starting to understand NLs are far from what they are cracked up to be, but it will not do to try turning the tables completely. NLs without SE is not among the low tier classes.

While NLs do benefit greatly from SE, it's kind of ignorant to claim they are nothing without it. I have never agreed with the crap about NLs being the best class, but even without SE it slaps the fingers of some others in several situations. It's great that people finally starting to understand NLs are far from what they are cracked up to be, but it will not do to try turning the tables completely. NLs without SE is not among the low tier classes.

rapid fire>TT without SE nuff said that being said... sure they are still good..... but there is better ones

I like the idea of a rows and columns set up for this table.
An idea is that certain bosses such as pb and horntail that are party bosses, you'd have a certain percent listed. For example, out of 30 people, only 1 needs to be a shadower(3%) because he's not there for damage, he's there for utillity. While out of 30 people, 5~6 dark knights would be needed(15~18%).

Mages can and do fight anego, but you wont see them doing it often. So maybe put in the percent chance you'd see a specific class at a boss because that's what they excel at IE heros at bf 100%.

NL... are awesome.
*slowly walks out*

I have to say that if they do the table based on solo abillity (except for party bosses), nl's arent the best. An nl needs to be on an apple and/or partied(se) to outdamage other classes. They all have thier stronger/weaker points. Like you'll rarely see an archer at bigfoot but you'll see an nl, while at anego archers are more common.

rapid fire>TT without SE nuff said that being said... sure they are still good..... but there is better ones

TT w/o se > rapid fire w/o se with a decent gear when both using onyx apple. Without apple they are both about the same.

Sorry guys, I'll have the working version up by tomorrow night. Been studying for a Physics test and getting some other work done.

Right, so I need a bit of help:

[SPOILER=Here's what I made in Excel so far]

	Hero	Paladin	Dark Knight	F/P Archmage	I/L Archmage	Bishop	Bowmaster	Marksman	Night Lord	Shadower	Buccaneer	Corsair
Area Bosses (Crog and Under)	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	0	1	1	1	1
Manon + Griffey	1	1	1	2	2	2	1	1	1	1	1	1
Leviathan	1	1	1	2	2	2	1	1	1	1	1	1
Dodo	0	2	0	2	2	2	0	1	1	1	1	1
Lilynouch	0	1	0	2	2	2	1	1	1	1	1	1
Lyka	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Headless Horseman	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	0
Bigfoot	0	0	0	3	3	4	3	4	2	1	1	3
Anego	3	3	3	2	2	2	1	3	1	3	3	0
Bodyguard A/B + Grandpa	4	4	4	4	4	4	0	1	0	-	-	0
Geist Balrog	1	1	1	3	1	3	1	1	1	1	1	1
Margana	1	1	1	2	2	2	0	1	0	1	1	0
Hsalf	1	1	1	2	2	2	1	1	1	1	1	1
Rellik	0	0	0	2	2	2	3	3	3	1	1	3
Red Nirg	0	1	0	2	2	2	2	2	2	1	1	2
Pianus	1	1	1	2	2	2	1	1	1	1	1	1
Papulatus	1	1	1	2	2	2	0	1	1	1	1	0
Zakum	0	1	1	1	1	1	0	1	0	1	1	0
Horntail	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Pink Bean	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

First of all, am I missing any bosses? I'm not including job advance/quest bosses and I lumped all the weak area bosses in 1 since everyone can kill them in less than 5 seconds. I can throw in non-GMS bosses later, but I want to get everything else done first.

It's going to look nicer eventually; all I have to do is write a script to swap out all the numbers for pictures/colors. Anyway, it's kind of rushed because I'm still busy at the moment, but you can kind of see what I've started here. I still need a separate table at the bottom for support roles at squad bosses, but other than that I have the framework set down.

0 = this class is exceptional at this boss, noticeably better than others, and/or highly desired for this boss
1 = this class is a solid attacker and useful to have at this boss
2 = this class can do okay at this boss, but contributes much less damage than any class rated as a 1 to this boss
3 = this class faces significant problems at this boss. Problems include:
- requiring massive HP washing to simply survive at the boss even under optimal gameplay
- requiring constant use of a skill that does much less damage than the class is capable of
- being unable to attack for long periods of time
- requiring tactics that are very dangerous or difficult to pull off consistently
4 = this class is useless or near useless at this boss. It is only able to deal trivial damage or none at all, or it requires the player to satisfy an extreme condition that most people are unlikely to be capable of (such as 600+ accuracy on a warrior or 12k base HP on a ranged class)

I'm expecting that I made a lot of mistakes. I'd appreciate help and any corrections people have to offer. I left quite a bit of the chart blank because I simply have no idea what goes there.

Bowmasters and marksmen should have 0s for most of the spawning bosses up there due to puppetability. Shadowers should also have a 0 for area bosses due to assassinate. Marksmen are quite good at anego and can pin/keep her from advancing. Archmages should have 3s for Margana due to element issues, bishops should have 4s for all the ckpq bosses except red nirg for the same reason. Also, marksmen and bowmasters shouldn't really be segregated by 0s and 1s like because their damage rate is very nearly the same, especially with margana, bodyguard A, and zakum because the 2-pirate requirement means having SI is highly likely, the ability to jumpshoot at bodyguard A is useful, and snipe ignores wep cancel.

For lyka, this is my opinion: 111222112212
Since all classes get seduced, the better classes are the ones that can control lyka's position and not have to manually lure lyka to the right side, and ultimate spamming is pretty inefficient.

For horntail: 11X22X111111
I put X where it would be like: this class is almost absolutely required, but outside of the requirement/required number of them, the class is not very good. All classes other than archmages receive 1s because they are all good damage dealers, good seduce mules, or both.

For pink bean: X3XXX4120231
Panic is required for pink bean KBing, HB is self-explanatory, slow and meteor/blizzard are for PB control and summon control. All melee classes are quite bad at PB due to inability to hit hawk statues and very limited ability to hit ariel. Marksmen receive a 2 for inability to use snipe in phase 6. Night lords receive a 0 for being the only class capable of hitting hawk statues with corresponding scholar statues still up as well as having high avoid to dodge the status effect spam.

Remember, everything I posted is my opinion, you're welcome to disagree =]