ZHelms for classes that HP wash

A friend on maple and I got into a really good discussion what ZHelms for HP washing classes should be scrolled for.

He argued:

ZHelms should be scrolled for INT first. After you get HP to a suitable level, then ditch the ZHelm and get one scrolled for your primary stat. As it is, the HP washing player will want to acquire an immense amount of MP, and an extra 2 MP/level (3 if you're lucky) is a large gain that's too hard to ignore.

I argued:

But what is a "suitable level"? Couldn't "Pink Bean 2" come out someday and set a new standard for HP? Furthermore, sacrificing DEX on a helm for warriors or hermits is a huge loss. That extra 15 DEX from scrolling could mean the difference between wearing Casters and wearing Mambas. I'll concede in saying that lukless hermits that wash might benefit from INT scrolling since that extra 15 LUK isn't so useful, but to a low-DEX one that extra DEX makes all the difference.

I agree on his side, cause people cry over hp-washing. plus you dont really need your casters or Mambas. You can always hold out until later. Plus the smallest amount of mp makes a big difference.

It feels like a waste to scroll an INT helm only to ditch it later on. If it were me, I'd spent money out the nose for an INT helm (over 15 INT of course). Of course, classes like the DEXless Hermits can probably do without the extra DEX so they can safely scroll for INT and not regret tossing it away.

Kind of irrelevant, but you can't scroll a helmet for all stats, so...

My opinion is that if the class is having trouble surviving, why not scroll the helm for HP? It's not like the money spent exploding zhelms for (on average) +10 stats from the base is worth the attack boost you get.

you can always get a 20+ int green dana if you so set in having dex and int.

It feels like a waste to scroll an INT helm only to ditch it later on.

Int Zhelms sells pretty good in FM. Maybe you can make some money out of it later too. :3

Kind of irrelevant, but you can't scroll a helmet for all stats, so...

You know people use chaos scrolls on Zhelms, right? XD
I know it's kinda too-good-to-be-true-feeling for int + other stat to go up, but people will keep trying.

i kind of thought that everyone thats doing a wash of any sort would buy int gear such as a int z helm or a int banana . Another thing i thought that everyone was doing was when first making a character(beginner/noblesse) that they would put most if not all Ap into int be for changing from beginning state of the game to a job (adventure/KoC). the reason behind it is just a normal int gear be for leveling, yet because the stats don't matter anymore like they used to. You can change job and get free mp gain from 1-10 and put AP into what ever build you wanted after taking the job ...


Just a side note , although you can do this you can not how ever put ap into hp/mp when in these levels ...

Well with the new karma scissors there is no loss from scrolling the INT zhelm.
....
Endgame- I'd go with plan Fiel.
But then if Pink Bean 2 comes out- scissor the zhelm and get the INT flowing.

You can change job and get free mp gain from 1-10 and put AP into what ever build you wanted after taking the job ...

Except the level 10 (post job advance) MP amounts are standard. You get the same MP whether you used int or not.

But what is a "suitable level"? Couldn't "Pink Bean 2" come out someday and set a new standard for HP? Furthermore, sacrificing DEX on a helm for warriors or hermits is a huge loss. That extra 15 DEX from scrolling could mean the difference between wearing Casters and wearing Mambas. I'll concede in saying that lukless hermits that wash might benefit from INT scrolling since that extra 15 LUK isn't so useful, but to a low-DEX one that extra DEX makes all the difference.

Well it's not like you can scroll the helm for luk unless you Chaos it, so really for dexless thieves you don't miss out on anything by scrolling for INT. When I was training my NL I actually managed to forget that I could scroll my helm for INT so whoops. =x I'd go with plan-Fiel too.

Echoing several people here and saying the int zhelm till you reach your hp goal from washing then scissor it, use the funds to rescroll a main/secondary stat helm.

True you miss out on the nice bump in acc (for warriors) or the bump in dmg from updating equips, but people want to get to their hp goals asap and any extra int means more hp sooner. Plus, these other stats can be scrolled on other places with maker and all. Also the theory that you could upgrade a claw, a nicely scrolled night raven's claw can do wonders till you eventually substitute your helm, if you ever do.

This is what he means by "suitable level".

 Spoiler

This is what he means by "suitable level".

 Spoiler

Whoa whoa WHOA, what's this?



EXP loss, from a guy who MTS's? Hmmm???? :f6: Even if he was just being reckless, there is HP washing, and there is HP washing gone too far.

This is what he means by "suitable level".

 Spoiler

I would rather see his damage along with his ridiculously overpowered HP levels...

Okay, let's think.

The AP needed for that much HP at 154 (assume he has a MoN): ~1,000 (Thieves gain 16 HP a double washing point right?)

The MP needed for that much HP washing: ~14,000

Does not compute. Without doing number crunching it seems practically impossible.

Okay, let's think.

The AP needed for that much HP at 154 (assume he has a MoN): ~1,000 (Thieves gain 16 HP a double washing point right?)

The MP needed for that much HP washing: ~14,000

Does not compute. Without doing number crunching it seems practically impossible.

20189 HP - (147*22[HP from levels as thief] + 125[1st Job Advance] + 325[2nd Job Advance] + 10*15[HP from levels as Beginner]) = 16365 from Washing.

16365 / 780 AP = 20 HP per AP, on average.
http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26

High, but possible....

Knowing me, I messed up somewhere.

Why would you ever need more than 12k HP for anything a ranged class might ever attempt, anyway? 8k is already excessive, though it doesn't hurt to have that much.

lol
v

-sees Dusk viewing thread-
-refrains from crunching numbers-

nvm, ninja'd
-still refrains from crunching numbers-

20189 HP - (147*22[HP from levels as thief] + 125[1st Job Advance] + 325[2nd Job Advance] + 10*15[HP from levels as Beginner]) = 16365 from Washing.

16365 / 780 AP = 20 HP per AP, on average.
http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26

High, but possible....

Knowing me, I messed up somewhere.

That 20 HP an AP is only when applying AP to HP from leveling up. To do that from level 1 requires at least a gain of 70 MP a level. There has to be a lot of double washing somewhere in between; that is roughly 16/18 HP per AP instead. May not be a lot, but the difference adds up.

i saw that on sw that guy said hes now resetting his int and selling his int equips again and does wanna get some nice gear, his dmg is like a lv 120 dexless nightlord. and its funded trought mts well nice i guess still i dont see why he did go over 17.5k hp, yeah ofcuz he doesnt have his own hb but with that money spent you can merchant yourself a pc and have a hb mule 24/7 and i most boss situations you have a dk anway.

and i guess go for the dex helm, hp washing is overrated