Homosexuality

Well I believe that it simply isn't natural to be gay. It's okay to be attracted to people of the same sex per se, but I just think homosexuals misinterpret that kinship as being one of love interest which is incorrect. All animal species were designed to reproduce. Reproduction is the sole purpose of life for all organisms. If one does not contribute to propagating then they are going against the laws of nature.

Personally I am homophobic. I don't mean to insult anyone or their choice/belief but these are my views and they aren't ill intended. Being raised as a Catholic has greatly effected my views and it has altered the way I see the world to some extent.

Uh, yet there's plenty of evidence of sexually reproducing animals having intercourse with members of their own sex. If sex for nonreproductive purposes is wrong, then straight sex for pleasure is just as wrong as gay sex. But this view is incorrect, too, because sex isn't just for making babies. It's an important and healthy social activity.

I don't really expect the bigotry and hate that exists in our society today to go away in our lifetimes. It's good that you understand the influence of the way you were raised on your views and are tolerant enough to live and let live at least. I just hope that in the future more people will realize that homophobia is illogical and accept that gays exist and not feel so disgusted and offended when they think about it. I swear some people on this forum sound like they've never been in a locker room or something.

I don't think gay people can help being what they are. Right now, this argument is becoming more of "an argument" because gays ARE free to be gay, and they CAN be openly gay and have a life. In an older time, if the larger society found out that you were gay, you could conceivably be murdered, (in modern-medieval societies such as Iran you still can be, Mahmoud Arminejad said there's "no gays in Iran,") and even if you weren't, your opportunities in society would be limited. Nobody in such a time would CHOOSE to be gay because it would be dangerous and limit your job opportunities. Yet, homosexuality is an ancient thing. Why?

So yeah, NOW this argument has some merit, but think about it, if a person could "choose" to be straight or "choose" to be gay, who would "choose" to be gay when even now it means discrimination to the point where you can get the shiit beaten out of you, and when your partner opportunities are limited to 6% of the population, (rather than 94%,) and when you cannot legally marry your partner and when to work in many jobs you have to hide your identity? Even George Takei, (Sulu in Star Trek,) only revealed his sexual orientation a couple years ago, with his fame and fortune so established that it couldn't hurt him. He said the reason he waited till then was because he knew that being openly homosexual would destroy his career. And all that's in AMERICA. Again, think of less tolerant societies like Iran, and then tell me gays "want to be gay."

There's only a handful of people that "choose" to be gay, and those are called "bisexuals," who have a choice between men and women. Nobody who is born gay would want to go through the awful $hit that being gay entails.

This is the 21st century, and people STILL deny science? Being gay has proven links to biological factors.

Sadly people still do!

Eventually though, old traditions and believes will die off as time grains these into fragments of sand in the pile of old civilization, which is now nothing more then writing on walls, or text books...

Yeah, some people still find g'ay to be a disease/choice/wrong, but the world is more libral(sp?) then what it was back in 1960s and below. As time goes by, the old civilization which once said that blacks were slaves, g'ays were wrong, and other what today called inhuman, degrade into the fragments of sand.

California used to be one of the most conservative places in the US. But now look at it, especially San Francisco, it used to be a city where if two men were caught holding hands, everyone would flip out, now, who cares?

As time goes by, these old believes will die. Look at African American History, Women History...

As time goes by, these old believes will die. Look at African American History, Women History...

The belief that tradition is worthless is 1960s hippyist counter-culture bull$hit and it is every bit is dumb as homophobia itself. Human civilization has literally thousands of years of tradition for various things. That is, people tried things out, those that worked stayed, those that didn't work got forgotten. It's like evolution, only for society. And counter-culture is genetic engineering without the proper scientific knowledge for it. So, we have thousands of years of tradition based on what stayed after meticulous, slow progress. In the 1960s you got some pot-smokers thinking they could do better than that in one year, and America still hasn't climbed out of the bullshiit. Only a complete retard would think that you can do as well in one year as countless generations had done in thousands of years. It's a completely radical, (and half-assed,) proposition, and it's hamstrung this country to such a point that we're still fuucked because of it. From worshipping Anna Nicole Smith to Grand Theft Auto to a 50% divorce rate, all this crap dates back to the 1960s. Shaping civilization is NOT like fuucking in bushes, whatever these nudist flower people believed.

Yeah, women's rights and black rights are a good thing, but look at the price we paid -- America is a sick society, and we're exporting this sickness across the globe, making people hate us. The 1960s were like anything radical -- you DESTROY some things that are bad, but you're doing it so fast that you destroy a lot of good things that shouldn't have been destroyed. That's why gradual, slow change is better -- the injustices get solved slower, but the society stays healthy.

By the way, African American studies and Women's studies are considered the two most worthless disciplines, and unless a person is going to make a career of bawwwwwwwwing he would never major in them. A guy I used to know took a Women's Studies course in college, he told me literally all they did in the class was hating on men and teaching the students how bad men are. As a guy, the person in question felt extremely uncomfortable because he was getting hated on. I myself would never argue that women should receive less political opportunities or pay than men, but Women's Studies is not about that, it's about militant lesbians trying to castrate society.

tl;dr: tradition is essential to a healthy society, don't bash on it.

Well I believe that it simply isn't natural to be gay. It's okay to be attracted to people of the same sex per se, but I just think homosexuals misinterpret that kinship as being one of love interest which is incorrect. All animal species were designed to reproduce. Reproduction is the sole purpose of life for all organisms. If one does not contribute to propagating then they are going against the laws of nature.

Personally I am homophobic. I don't mean to insult anyone or their choice/belief but these are my views and they aren't ill intended. Being raised as a Catholic has greatly effected my views and it has altered the way I see the world to some extent.

I am Catholic too. You don't believe that God loves all his children? You think that he chooses who he loves based on who they are? I'm sorry, I know that is your opinion, but that's just wrong in every way.

The 1960's counterculture was completely inspired by the beatniks, if you're going to hate anyone, go beat up Jack Kerouac.

In my opinion the biggest obstacle in moving on for society's purpose is the idiocy that erupts from "to-the-bullet" traditions. Its both those who ignore tradition and those who don't allow it to progress that cause any different ideas to be an issue. Let's face it, life is never ever going to stay the same. And accepting that homosexuality will not be accepted is very close minded. As for homosexuality itself, who cares? Feelings are feelings, the only reason they are gay is because they want to be happy and have a partner in life regardless of what society thinks.

I could care less of who people go to bed with, flamboyancy annoys me. >_>;

tl;dr: tradition is essential to a healthy society, don't bash on it.

Thank you for misunderstanding...

I didn't say it was worthless, I said it changes as time goes by.

Thank you for misunderstanding...

I didn't say it was worthless, I said it changes as time goes by.

Sadly people still do!

Eventually though, old traditions and believes will die off as time grains these into fragments of sand in the pile of old civilization, which is now nothing more then writing on walls, or text books...

Very very few ways to interpret this segment. This is not talking about homophobia, this is talking about "old traditions and believes [sic]" and "old civilization" in general. I did not misinterpret what you said, you either wrote it without thinking first and gave off a faulty impression of your own opinions, (your fault,) or you actually MEANT it, (also your fault.)

The 1960's counterculture was completely inspired by the beatniks, if you're going to hate anyone, go beat up Jack Kerouac.

In my opinion the biggest obstacle in moving on for society's purpose is the idiocy that erupts from "to-the-bullet" traditions. Its both those who ignore tradition and those who don't allow it to progress that cause any different ideas to be an issue. Let's face it, life is never ever going to stay the same. And accepting that homosexuality will not be accepted is very close minded. As for homosexuality itself, who cares? Feelings are feelings, the only reason they are gay is because they want to be happy and have a partner in life regardless of what society thinks.

I could care less of who people go to bed with, flamboyancy annoys me. >_>;

That is incorrect. Conservatism in 3rd world countries such as the Middle East is linked with stifling of progress, oppression of the population, suppression of dissent, murder and terrorism. Conservatism in 1st world countries is not like that, and it has a legitimate role to play in politics.

Politics is a pendulum, which swings from right to left. One side has power for a while, it eventually does some naughty things, the other side gets voted in, it has power for a while, IT does some naughty things, and so on. Conservatives and liberals both have differing ideas on how the state should be run, but in reality both sides are essential to a healthy society. Liberals conceptualize change and put it through, conservatives safeguard tradition and ensure that valuable things about society are not discarded. If it wasn't for liberals, we'd have little progress, and valuable things that they introduce into society would not be given to us. However, if it wasn't for conservatives, all the BS things liberalism comes up with, (yes, it comes up with crap along with the good things,) would go unchecked, and our society would unravel. The WORST 1st world conservatives really can do is ensure that fairly little change comes while they are dominant. If you put that next to the check they play on the liberals, that's not so bad.

This is more of a question about how Religion views homosexuals. Think about it, if religion said being a homosexual was "ok" and "natural", would so many people be homophobic? As a generalization, most homophobic people are either religious or conservative, or both. My belief is that religion is a good idea, but people have taken it and twisted it into something evil and corrupt. I am not an atheist, I am agnostic. To me, religion is just something to explain the unexplainable, something to make people feel better, to feel more secure. There may be a God, there may not be a God. But look at it this way: What did ancient cultures attribute a volcano eruption to? "You've angered the Gods!" They attributed things they did not understand, like volcano eruptions, to the Gods. So, using this logic, I think that people use religion to try to explain things they do not understand (Like Death) to a higher power, aka God. I'm not saying this idea is bad in itself, but when people become closed minded because of this then it becomes a limitation. When people refuse to realize one simple truth because of religion, then religion becomes harmful to society. This truth I speak of? That all people, all humans, are created equal, and no one is any better then anyone else. Everyone is equal, including homosexuals.

This is more of a question about how Religion views homosexuals. Think about it, if religion said being a homosexual was "ok" and "natural", would so many people be homophobic? As a generalization, most homophobic people are either religious or conservative, or both. My belief is that religion is a good idea, but people have taken it and twisted it into something evil and corrupt. I am not an atheist, I am agnostic. To me, religion is just something to explain the unexplainable, something to make people feel better, to feel more secure. There may be a God, there may not be a God. But look at it this way: What did ancient cultures attribute a volcano eruption to? "You've angered the Gods!" They attributed things they did not understand, like volcano eruptions, to the Gods. So, using this logic, I think that people use religion to try to explain things they do not understand (Like Death) to a higher power, aka God. I'm not saying this idea is bad in itself, but when people become closed minded because of this then it becomes a limitation. When people refuse to realize one simple truth because of religion, then religion becomes harmful to society. This truth I speak of? That all people, all humans, are created equal, and no one is any better then anyone else. Everyone is equal, including homosexuals.

This.

Also, going back to homosexuals choosing their orientation: I think that more of exhibits bisexual behaviour.

Homosexuality and Heterosexuality cannot be changed. If it is "changed", the person is a bisexual.

I don't really care if a person is gay/straight/bi (greedy) lol. I believe it's what you're attracted to. It's not a choice, & u weren't "born" that way either (my belief) although there are sometimes tendencies that are shown at a child's young age that you can tell what they're going to be. Love is Love and blah blah blah that free world peace love stuff lol. I know countless males & females that have been a heterosexual couple & they weren't happy.. they couldn't kiss the person, let alone sleep in the same bed. They weren't attracted to the person that they were with because they thought it was the "right" thing to do and it's what society deemed appropriate. Gay marriage is a yes, in my book. They have the right to be as miserable as any other heterosexual married couple is.

Well I believe that it simply isn't natural to be gay. It's okay to be attracted to people of the same sex per se, but I just think homosexuals misinterpret that kinship as being one of love interest which is incorrect. All animal species were designed to reproduce. Reproduction is the sole purpose of life for all organisms. If one does not contribute to propagating then they are going against the laws of nature.

This.

I politely respect those who are attracted to the opposite sex, however, as it is not something that they can help.

I love homos.
Really equal rights include ALL rights.

Well I believe that it simply isn't natural to be gay. It's okay to be attracted to people of the same sex per se, but I just think homosexuals misinterpret that kinship as being one of love interest which is incorrect. All animal species were designed to reproduce. Reproduction is the sole purpose of life for all organisms. If one does not contribute to propagating then they are going against the laws of nature.
Personally I am homophobic. I don't mean to insult anyone or their choice/belief but these are my views and they aren't ill intended. Being raised as a Catholic has greatly effected my views and it has altered the way I see the world to some extent.

So...nuns and priests and the pope are all equivalent to gay people, considering that they don't contribute to procreation as well, by that logic. Meaning that if your sole reason for not acknowleding homosexuality as acceptable is that gay people don't create new life, then your views must naturally extend to positions of authority in the Catholic church as well.

So...nuns and priests and the pope are all equivalent to gay people, considering that they don't contribute to procreation as well, by that logic. Meaning that if your sole reason for not acknowleding homosexuality as acceptable is that gay people don't create new life, then your views must naturally extend to positions of authority in the Catholic church as well.

No, I didn't mean it in that regard. The positions and people you listed have chosen to take vows of celibacy but if they wished to they would be able to procreate. However, some homosexuals would never be able to procreate with members of the opposite sex to some extent which is what I meant.

No, I didn't mean it in that regard. The positions and people you listed have chosen to take vows of celibacy but if they wished to they would be able to procreate. However, some homosexuals would never be able to procreate with members of the opposite sex to some extent which is what I meant.

Of course they could - there is an example in another thread of someone's aunt sleeping with a gay man because she wanted a child, but didn't want the person to enjoy the sex. And those who took the vows actually cannot, without violating said vows - the vows are meant to be lifelong, and a holy pact with god. Violating that pact is a pretty major offense from my understanding. Gay people can also use surrogates to create new life, or can use laboratory methods. So the "gay people can't make babies" argument doesn't work. You would also have to hold women with ovarian cancer and men with testicular cancer, as they can't ever procreate in most cases (assuming removal of affected organs)

Kurtle, why can't you accept that God loves everyone? EVERYONE. Because if you can't, then you have a religious problem. God doesn't choose who to love. He loves everyone. The truth is, your religion hasn't shaped your opinions out for you. You have yourself and then intwined religion in with it. Your mind chose to make God choose who he loves. That is just sickening. Your views make me nauseous.

Kurtle, why can't you accept that God loves everyone? EVERYONE. Because if you can't, then you have a religious problem. God doesn't choose who to love. He loves everyone. The truth is, your religion hasn't shaped your opinions out for you. You have yourself and then intwined religion in with it. Your mind chose to make God choose who he loves. That is just sickening. Your views make me nauseous.

No need to be so antagonistic, you can state your disagreement without insulting him. The TS wanted us to state our views, and acting like that when somebody does will not only weaken your own arguments, but also give people good reason not to post their own views. Please try to be more respectful of differing opinions, and if you disagree, argue in a more constructive manner.

Too much to rant about on a tiring night, such as tonight. I am all for Homosexual couples adopting, getting married, and doing whatever they want. I am even fine with them doing it in public. I am not okay with people saying that it is wrong and they're not allowed to do it. This is where I'm just going to stop myself and call it a night. I saw what your bro said in that rant about your mom's special weekend, and it was horrible. Sorry for tough times like that. I don't know how it feels, but I get a taste of it, considering people think I'm gay, cause of the way I act. =\

I honestly have no problems with homosexuality. o_o I mean, there's nothing wrong with it. I accept homosexuality because gays deserve to be equal as us, heterosexuals. Just imagine a world with homosexuals as majorities. Would you like to be picked on just because you're straight? People need to be more open-minded.