Please...Nexon...

[COLOR="Teal"]If balanced means that at lvl 16x I solo pap in the same time as a lvl 120 mm.

We lvl fast, but we're weak 1v1.

And leeching is just a choice. I don't take leechers usually, unless they're friends or paying an extraordinary amount, but that's cause some classes inflate int/matk scrolls due to hp washing and I need money to improve my gear.[/COLOR]

Honestly, I don't think you have more to say on this than anyone else. We've all gone through the same or similar experiences on MS. What do you do when another of your friends quits in five months? You mourn, then move on. Most of the friends I had that quit, quit because of life, not the game. Some left in a fit of rage, some left in sincere fashion, others without a word of notice. None left because of the changes to the game. That would be flip. The ones who didn't quit because of life, quit because the game got boring for them. Those people just moved on to other games. (WoW being the popular choice.)

No, we have not all gone through the same or similar experiences in MS. Those who believe that need to get their head out of the well that's now filled with fresh water and go drink the water in the seas. And I'm sure you've honestly talked to every one of them to know exactly why they quit. </sarcasm>

Your final statement in this quote is exactly the point I'm making in this thread, which I think you missed big time and even contradicted yourself on in your own post.

Those aren't online games. Online games require a lot more time and commitment, because you're actually joining a social environment and interacting with other people. Often it is impossible to get things done or slower to do things on your own. To get very far in the game requires constant presence, and many hours a week. People have real lives to attend to.

Console games you can put them down and pick them up whenever. No one notices if you put down FFVII for a long time and start playing it again. You can fit that into your schedule whenever you feel like it and when you do decide to play you know it'll be fun. When there's no ceiling to what you can do in an MMO there's often a sense of needing to play to achieve something, even if it doesn't feel fun.

That is not true. I have a few 14x players in my guild who only logs on about once a week at whenever leisure time they have. There are also other countless folks who only had buddies before guilds were released. That was an era of MS in which you can achieve your own things on your own pace and still get reasonably far. There was no 4-hour 2x cards. And even without them, I know enough who have leveled to 14x or 15x just on leisure time, but they're the grinders and they have the patience, even slow as it may be.

It's not about how much of a time window you have to put into the game each time you play. With time and patience, any person can theoretically get to level 200. But there is a limitation on the average human tolerance, and that is something that the design of this game has failed to incoporate itself into.

[COLOR="Teal"]If balanced means that at lvl 16x I solo pap in the same time as a lvl 120 mm.

We lvl fast, but we're weak 1v1.

And leeching is just a choice. I don't take leechers usually, unless they're friends or paying an extraordinary amount, but that's cause some classes inflate int/matk scrolls due to hp washing and I need money to improve my gear.[/COLOR]

Balanced in the sense that every class is good at something particular, and is not limited by design flaws and restrictions...which this game fails at.

A small example:

Arch Mages train fast, but don't get into much bosses.
NLs train considerably slower, but they do get into bosses.

But is the EXP from the bossing opportunities really on par with the EXP of a a mage who can train anytime? Bosses are constantly limited by 2 times a day factor (not to mention most large-scale bosses give horrible EXP) and the social/organization factor. Is it really a true sense of balance that is achieved when the game is designed like this?

Then you got your true underdog class who train slow without an AM and don't even get into much bosses like Paladins, Shadowers, and Corsairs - who also lack decent party skills. Why is the overall enjoyment factor of this game so low and restricted for certain classes, if not all?

Sure we have our friends and guildmates to hang out with and talk to, but how much do we have in terms of the actual game? And from what I've spoken to people who have quit (for reasons other than RL), this last question is fundamental to why they quit and chose to move onto other games like WOW and RO.

I'd love non-mage training speed to come close to 90-95% of a mage's training speed, and mage bossing speed to come close to 90-95% of a melee's bossing speed. It'd still give an edge to the respective class, but the gap would be greatly lessened as well. I'm surprised why some people can't see this.

Make 1/2 a day bosses give more EXP. Double, triple, or more! Make it worth going to bosses when it's not just for drops.

[YOUTUBE]ASAjF5jqRJw[/YOUTUBE]
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 Spoiler

I'm sorry, but no. Through my eyes, your MapleStory is no different than anyone else's. You lost friends, you made close friends, you see the imbalance between classes, you wish things were back to the way they used to be, you complain about what's wrong with the game. And yes, every close Maple friend I had did tell me why they were quitting. None mentioned because of the way the game had changed. I said it already, I know some people have quit because of the changes, but I have not had the pleasure of meeting one of these people. Threads like these come up every week somewhere. Why are you still playing the game? You know some mage is gonna outlevel you ten times before you finish logging off SP. There's always going to be someone who hasn't gotten the feather out of their ass, and makes a thread about leeching/mages/imbalance/nexon/etc. This week it's you. And from that quote, I bolded the part I was referring to. It seems like you're the kind of person hooked on this game because you're just chasing that first high. I won't reply anymore. I've given my opinion. I wish you the best in life and nothing less. If you ever need a hug, my arms will always be open for you.

If you can't beat them, join them...or hack...either way, I don't care.

If you can't beat them, join them...or hack...either way, I don't care.

This is why we don't see change.

This is why we don't see change.

arent you already complaining about change? I mean, you can't ask for them to change the way you want them to, but deny them changing the way some others would want. You dont get everything you want, but nothing you dont.

arent you already complaining about change? I mean, you can't ask for them to change the way you want them to, but deny them changing the way some others would want. You dont get everything you want, but nothing you dont.

I am, but am I enough alone? I mean how long has it taken Nexon to start to respond to this "oldest criticism of Maple?" 3 years? 4 years? I just want to keep pressing for these changes to make everyone's game less of a chore so people don't need to be wasting 50 hours per level and $100s of dollars on NX to enjoy a free game near "end game"...and at the present, those who don't, tend to quit or leech. Do people really not want something else? <.< Are you really all satisfied?

"Never be satisfied; for if we were, we'd still be hunters and gatherers."

This is why we don't see change.

You don't see change cause you guys are just crying about bs that doesn't need to be changed. What I see here is the standard, "I can't just do what I do and mind my own damn business, and play the game the way I choose to play, and let others do the same, cause I'm far too immature for such a thing." attitude.

Frankly, if some jerk wants to join the game, and leech the hell out of their levels and learn absolutely nothing about the game, and eventually quit due to that, then good riddance. Adds more to the upper level count, and at the same time insures there is one less player. It's win/win in my book.

I personally started a Fire Mage when the game first went official because I love mages, period. I trained and trained and trained, having to take frequent breaks, cause let's face it, the game is slow, it was slower back then. Funny how my first break was AFTER 2x came out. Zakum comes out, and I lost a lot of my interest, why? It's because everywhere you went, all you read was how mages would be useless, the biggest thing in maple at the time, and I had to level knowing that I'd likely never be able to go. For the most part I still trained anyway, but slowed down greatly. Now I wasn't in the top levels at any point, but I was always in the "standard" level range. I still greatly enjoyed the game, but I wanted to play it from a different character, and I had made many other characters >_>.

When I saw what I'd get in 4th job on my mage, I focused on him, before even knowing the leech value, but thinking my training would be faster then, even knowing I'd still not really be all that great at bosses. Point is, I went through all that, only moderate leveling speed, very little bossing, to acquire top tier leveling speed and ease. I happen to have 2 computers, so I can leech my own characters, and this is why I don't want leeching taken away. I do not sell leech myself, but I enjoy being able to leech my own characters, and I've earned the right.

As for the people that sell leech, or buy leech, w/e, it doesn't matter to me. Those people will quit, so be it. Some won't, even with those that do quit, they wouldn't even make it that far if they couldn't have leeched to begin with, so it's no loss to the community, which some people seem to be making it out to be a loss. As for any rankings argument, hacking. That's all I have to say. You either get or you don't

So I say, we all just mind our own business. It really doesn't affect you if someone leeches, and quits. If you don't want to buy or sell leech, or leech at all, then don't. If you run into some lvl 15x, that knows nothing about the game, laugh to yourself and move on. It's not that big of a deal, and it'll never be changed. Be happy they are even fixing boss leeching.

"Never be satisfied; for if we were, we'd still be hunters and gatherers."

Humans are still hunters and gatherers. That has not changed since the dawn of creation. There are still farmers, still hunters, and still those who reap and sow from the fields. Nothing has changed.

I am content with what I have. If I get something cool, that's fine too.

No, we have not all gone through the same or similar experiences in MS. Those who believe that need to get their head out of the well that's now filled with fresh water and go drink the water in the seas. And I'm sure you've honestly talked to every one of them to know exactly why they quit. </sarcasm>

Your final statement in this quote is exactly the point I'm making in this thread, which I think you missed big time and even contradicted yourself on in your own post.



That is not true. I have a few 14x players in my guild who only logs on about once a week at whenever leisure time they have. There are also other countless folks who only had buddies before guilds were released. That was an era of MS in which you can achieve your own things on your own pace and still get reasonably far. There was no 4-hour 2x cards. And even without them, I know enough who have leveled to 14x or 15x just on leisure time, but they're the grinders and they have the patience, even slow as it may be.

It's not about how much of a time window you have to put into the game each time you play. With time and patience, any person can theoretically get to level 200. But there is a limitation on the average human tolerance, and that is something that the design of this game has failed to incoporate itself into.



Balanced in the sense that every class is good at something particular, and is not limited by design flaws and restrictions...which this game fails at.

A small example:

Arch Mages train fast, but don't get into much bosses.
NLs train considerably slower, but they do get into bosses.

But is the EXP from the bossing opportunities really on par with the EXP of a a mage who can train anytime? Bosses are constantly limited by 2 times a day factor (not to mention most large-scale bosses give horrible EXP) and the social/organization factor. Is it really a true sense of balance that is achieved when the game is designed like this?

Then you got your true underdog class who train slow without an AM and don't even get into much bosses like Paladins, Shadowers, and Corsairs - who also lack decent party skills. Why is the overall enjoyment factor of this game so low and restricted for certain classes, if not all?

Sure we have our friends and guildmates to hang out with and talk to, but how much do we have in terms of the actual game? And from what I've spoken to people who have quit (for reasons other than RL), this last question is fundamental to why they quit and chose to move onto other games like WOW and RO.

Bossing isn't for EXP (unless it's Bigfoot or Anego), it's for money. AMs burn money like no tomorrow, even with NLC pots. If you're a poor AM who can't afford to ult, training is slower than melee classes. It's just like the saying the grass is greener on the other side. Melee classes want fast training, and Mages want bossing ability.

I completely agree.

It's taken me 4 years of grinding on ave 4 hours a day to get to 167, yet a Pirate leeches to 200 in under 6 months. If I was getting 40+mill exp an hour(I get 5mill an hour without a 2x card) soloing like Mages do I'd still play...when my 1 and only 2x card expires soon I'm pulling the plug as its just to bloody time consuming.

You must be doing something wrong. I have no idea how you only get 5m exp an hour, yet you always give this number whenever you complain about other people training faster than you. I got 6m/hr soloing Newties in 13x. I now get nearly 7. You're a 16x MM. I'm a 14x Corsair. Lern2train.

It's just a damn shame how hard it is to get Skele parties now, though. Skele parties with a 14x or 15x MM and a priest are 8-9/hr, which is a pretty decent training rate.

It's really a marvel at the psychology that Nexon has utilized among all those who no longer care.

The comment a few posts above which referenced games such as Final Fantasy being comparable to Maplestory is almost completely irrelevant here. There are numerous mechanics incorporated into offline games which allow them to have replay value (such as easter eggs, or being able to start over with new abilities) and are simply not reasonable for online play. In Dead Space, for example, once you finish the game you're able to play through again with all the upgrades you've purchased for your character enabled right from the get-go. A lot of people find this really fun, as they can compare it to their initial experience with the game. This kind of thing doesn't work in an online environment, though, where linear storylines aren't present.

If a developer wants to encourage community and allow a player to free-roam their world, the ability they have to do things the "right" way that you're proposing becomes extremely limited. Sure, the game may be broken with all of what we have now, but fact of the matter is idealism doesn't cut it. This game runs on money, and Nexon America is a part of a congolmerate which sees profit as its ending result. Do not compare our version to those of other countries, as those countries have different social structures as well as drastically different economic situations.

It would be best if we didn't have 2x cards or things that allow others to gain mass profits, but in a world where everything needs to have pecuniary value (like the world we're living in now), the end must justify the means. Any intelligent person in business knows they need to make a profit to stay afloat, and in the game industry it is no different.

The comment a few posts above which referenced games such as Final Fantasy being comparable to Maplestory is almost completely irrelevant here. There are numerous mechanics incorporated into offline games which allow them to have replay value (such as easter eggs, or being able to start over with new abilities) and are simply not reasonable for online play. In Dead Space, for example, once you finish the game you're able to play through again with all the upgrades you've purchased for your character enabled right from the get-go. A lot of people find this really fun, as they can compare it to their initial experience with the game. This kind of thing doesn't work in an online environment, though, where linear storylines aren't present.

If a developer wants to encourage community and allow a player to free-roam their world, the ability they have to do things the "right" way that you're proposing becomes extremely limited. Sure, the game may be broken with all of what we have now, but fact of the matter is idealism doesn't cut it. This game runs on money, and Nexon America is a part of a congolmerate which sees profit as its ending result. Do not compare our version to those of other countries, as those countries have different social structures as well as drastically different economic situations.

It would be best if we didn't have 2x cards or things that allow others to gain mass profits, but in a world where everything needs to have pecuniary value (like the world we're living in now), the end must justify the means. Any intelligent person in business knows they need to make a profit to stay afloat, and in the game industry it is no different.

I can use my Paladin's equips to make another Hero and experience the aspect that I don't experience on my Paladin. That would be replay value, except there is none in sight because even my Paladin is a chore and even after 4 years I still haven't "beaten" this game.

I can use my Paladin's equips to make another Hero and experience the aspect that I don't experience on my Paladin. That would be replay value, except there is none in sight because even my Paladin is a chore and even after 4 years I still haven't "beaten" this game.

Then that is merely your own perception of what the game means. For some, training a paladin at your level wouldn't be a chore. For most, however, and given the structure of America's society, many see it that way, so Nexon did something to make gameplay more enjoyable to those users.

When the masses are what drive something, what is so absurd about appeasing them?

Also, try and keep this topic respectful. You're not going to get anywhere posting comments like this which make you seem rather conceited.

It's really a marvel at the psychology that Nexon has utilized among all those who no longer care.

Some may say it's a marvel that your self righteous necessity within the game has driven to you criticize those within the community itself.

Humans are still hunters and gatherers. That has not changed since the dawn of creation. There are still farmers, still hunters, and still those who reap and sow from the fields. Nothing has changed.

I am content with what I have. If I get something cool, that's fine too.

There have been changes. The very reason you're able to type this message to me and me receiving it within seconds is this very proof. People who care and are not satisfied will bring about changes. Sometimes those changes would be seen as impossible or unnecessary before they come about, and sometimes those changes will be taken for granted once they are around for too long. Such is the world we live in today. Yet, we still cannot refute history and the people who did bring about the changes.

Then that is merely your own perception of what the game means. For some, training a paladin at your level wouldn't be a chore. For most, however, and given the structure of America's society, many see it that way, so Nexon did something to make gameplay more enjoyable to those users.

When the masses are what drive something, what is so absurd about appeasing them?

Also, try and keep this topic respectful. You're not going to get anywhere posting comments like this which make you seem rather conceited.



Some may say it's a marvel that your self righteous necessity within the game has driven to you criticize those within the community itself.

I was merely offering a counterexample to your argument, I don't see how that is being conceited. I also don't even see what you're trying to say though about Nexon appeasing the masses. Not once have you been clear in stating what you perceive the masses to want nor have you stated what Nexon has done to make the game more enjoyable to them.

I'm criticizing those within the community itself just as anyone else do about leechers, quitters, etc. Except I'm pointing the fingers at a different group. Got a problem?

It's also funny how you're telling me to have some respect for MY thread when you can't even be bothered to read by your "tl;dr." Please, I don't need hypocrites who don't even know what they're arguing for posting here.

I was merely offering a counterexample to your argument, I don't see how that is being conceited. I also don't even see what you're trying to say though about Nexon appeasing the masses. Not once have you been clear in stating what you perceive the masses to want nor have you stated what Nexon has done to make the game more enjoyable to them.

I was referencing the quote below that statement, not the above. Sorry if that was unclear.

As for what I've been referencing, maybe I should bold each and every point I feel is related. If instead of dismissing every post as wrong (which is the obvious response, as you've done it to everyone who's taken the time to post in your thread) you would actually read into what is said, you'd more easily understand our points.

It would be best if we didn't have 2x cards or things that allow others to gain mass profits, but in a world where everything needs to have pecuniary value (like the world we're living in now), the end must justify the means. Any intelligent person in business knows they need to make a profit to stay afloat, and in the game industry it is no different.

Nexon implemented things such as 2x and Gachapon to allow players a bit of lenience in terms of the game's general difficulty (otherwise known as appeasing the masses, alleviating the hardship in various areas). If you're unable to glean that from that statement, I don't believe this thread is worth continuing.

I'm criticizing those within the community itself just as anyone else do about leechers, quitters, etc. Except I'm pointing the fingers at a different group. Got a problem?

No, I don't have a problem. You can stand alone on top of your soap box all you want, as apparently there's not a single person who can sway you from demonizing the community which you say you strongly care about.

It's also funny how you're telling me to have some respect for MY thread when you can't even be bothered to read by your "tl;dr." Please, I don't need hypocrites who don't even know what they're arguing for posting here.

What's funny is that you're assuming I haven't read the thread since my initial post. To put it simply, I did not have time to read it fully initially, and similar as to how you are failing to understand peoples' reasons for how they play Maplestory, you misinterpret my reasoning for issuing a "tl;dr" declaration. If I were blatantly derogatory towards you in that post I would understand, but from what I can tell I was concise and on topic. There is no reason to retreat to insulting comments or calling people hypocrites. I'll say now what I said earlier: Before accusing the community of doing something wrong, first look to yourself and consider how you as a member of that community can begin to make it better.

I was referencing the quote below that statement, not the above. Sorry if that was unclear.

As for what I've been referencing, maybe I should bold each and every point I feel is related. If instead of dismissing every post as wrong (which is the obvious response, as you've done it to everyone who's taken the time to post in your thread) you would actually read into what is said, you'd more easily understand our points.

I'm sorry I'm not a mind reader and can't understand what you're trying to say the first time I read it normally. I didn't expect to be reading Shakespearean literature that required 10-minute analysis and rereading. So thank you for making yourself more clear in this post.

Nexon implemented things such as 2x and Gachapon to allow players a bit of lenience in terms of the game's general difficulty (otherwise known as appeasing the masses, alleviating the hardship in various areas). If you're unable to glean that from that statement, I don't believe this thread is worth continuing.

I'm sorry, but your argument falls apart in who you assume to be the masses. The masses are not the people capable of affording Gachapon and 2x cards in the first place. Nor are the masses who post on SW.net or SP.net like you and me. The masses are, and I guarantee you, those who have already quit and will quit, as seen time and time again from people saying in this thread that they too have lost 99% of their former buddies and continue to.

No, I don't have a problem. You can stand alone on top of your soap box all you want, as apparently there's not a single person who can sway you from demonizing the community which you say you strongly care about.

Sometimes criticisms may hurt, but they can also have truth and reason. You see no value in those people who have gone, as demonstrated in your first post in this thread. Yet I only beg to differ by asking you to go around your server's folks and friends and ask them this one simple question: "Would you still keep playing Maple if your best friends quit?"

Even though these leechers and non-motivated-eventual quitters may seem no value to you or me personally, they are still part of the infrastructure of our community. They have friends, and their friends have friends, and so on. Only one weakest link is needed to break the chain.

What's funny is that you're assuming I haven't read the thread since my initial post. To put it simply, I did not have time to read it fully initially, and similar as to how you are failing to understand peoples' reasons for how they play Maplestory, you misinterpret my reasoning for issuing a "tl;dr" declaration.

I'm not failing to understand people's reasons to play MapleStory. I understand you guys' reasons for playing, as well as the reasons of those who have quit - because I have actually talked to them. Indeed, some have quit over real life situations. That is something out of our control as players of this community. But a large handful has, in fact, quit over the game itself. I have said already that this thread is not aimed at people who still find their reason to play and don't mind their grind. This thread is for those who we have lost that was part of the old community that made our playing experiences luster for the longest times. It is that community that I cherish and look back upon. This present day community is the one I'm pointing my fingers at...which leads to your final point.

If I were blatantly derogatory towards you in that post I would understand, but from what I can tell I was concise and on topic. There is no reason to retreat to insulting comments or calling people hypocrites. I'll say now what I said earlier: Before accusing the community of doing something wrong, first look to yourself and consider how you as a member of that community can begin to make it better.

Why don't you tell me then. Tell me how to make this community better now other than to want changes (that most of you posting here seem to be not caring about) that would reverse the very reason that caused the old community to die apart in the first place.

Why don't you tell me then. Tell me how to make this community better now other than to want changes (that most of you posting here seem to be not caring about) that would reverse the very reason that caused the old community to die apart in the first place.

Frankly, it seems as though there is nothing on which to elaborate that will not expand to argument but this. I neither wish to offend nor insult, so I'll just conclude this final portion.

There is an old community to this game which has been lost; I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you there. Many of those whom have left the game, again as you've stated, have done so through the various mechanics implemented by Nexon that have made the game unfair and generally less appealing to said community. I hope I'm covering the bases in saying that you're totally correct about what you've said about the old community and how the game has gone in a bad direction. The issue in this thread is your approach to how you feel about it.

Online gaming is a fleeting thing. You'll be hard-pressed to find a free game which doesn't have players cycling in and out endlessly--effectively reshaping the community with every day it remains open. Why is this? Let's examine World of Warcraft, for example. Blizzard has a great thing going for them. The initial product was outstanding and had a great deal of depth, but also working on their side is the obligation of cost. Many who play WoW not only become indulged in the community, but are kept there by the continual cost of playing. Now, many would look at that and think, "As if they couldn't just cancel at any time," whereas most cannot. They become intertwined with the friends they've developed, and even when they think they should quit, they end up telling themselves, "I'll just finish off the month," only to find they'll have a new reason to continue by the end of that period.

Maplestory does not have that luxury, unfortunately. If you compare the production quality of the game from the time of its initial conception to the level it is now, you'll notice a considerable increase in the time and detail put into everything included within it. The free-to-play mentality of Nexon allows us, at the very least, to enjoy the community of players without having to be bound by the threads of our wallets, despite the availability of pay-to-play ideals.

Much of the current customer base is ready and willing to spend their hard-earned dollars on a hobby they consider to be worthwhile, and in our case, the hobby is playing Maplestory. The general idea, in this case, is that if you pay a little cash, you'll gain what you desire faster. It is only natural for this mentality to permeate the community in a multitude of ways, which justifies the existence of leeching, Zakum Helmet services, and ample other things.

The question of what can be done is not far from that which any social environment in real life presents. As a player, you are the one who chooses to play and you are the one who decides how you play. The old community may be gone, but if you still have a desire to play Maplestory, continue making friends and expanding your horizons to meet your own personal goals. Trying to convince others so strongly of your own opinions on the community as current is not a way of exposing folly, but instead signals you as the hostile who needs to be dealt with.

If by any chance you've read "An Enemy of the People" by Henrik Ibsen or know of it, you can find a great deal of insight within its pages.