Please...Nexon...

Make your game more balanced and enjoyable.

Mages shouldn't be training 3x-4x faster than non-mages. There shouldn't be need to leech. This game shouldn't be a chore to just sweep under the rug to get it over with. Make it more balanced; make it more fun for everyone. Bring back our hardworking honest community pre-4th job. People shouldn't be wanting to leech. People shouldn't be wanting to quit either.

This is sad.

(Note that this post has been editted because of bad wording initially giving an impression of this thread being anti-Mage/ultimates...which is not its intent.)

Do you REALLY want to start another discussion about this xD I'm going to hope the answer is no.

Make your game more balanced and enjoyable.

Mages shouldn't be able to train 3x-4x faster than non-mages. There shouldn't be need to leech. This game shouldn't be a chore to just swipe under the rug to get it over with. Make it more balanced; make it more fun. Bring back our hardworking honest community pre-4th job.

Blame the people, not the class. My Arch Mage has not sold leech, and my other characters have not bought it.

Blame the people, not the class. My Arch Mage has not sold leech, and my other characters have not bought it.

People shouldn't have to want to cheat to win a game. The reason Gameshark/Gamegenie/Code Breaker barely have any market is because the actual console video game industry design their games to be fun, practical, and challenging at the same time.

People shouldn't have to want to cheat to win a game. The reason Gameshark/Gamegenie/Code Breaker barely have any market is because the actual console video game industry design their games to be fun, practical, and challenging at the same time.

I don't see the part where people HAVE to leech.

I don't see the part where people HAVE to leech.

I don't see the part where it's a cheat either. /waits for it.

I don't see the part where it's a cheat either. /waits for it.

You and I BOTH know where this thread is going.

I don't see the part where people HAVE to leech.

The idea of have to or not have to is a moral sense.

The practicality is an objective sense. They either quit the game or they keep playing. After working for what may seem a long time, people who choose not to quit will attempt to continue in this game. But if Nexon did any research on human boredom tolerance and attention span, they'd have kept more customers from quitting and away from WoW to begin with. Only recently now do they realize how much customers they have lost out...read on.

I mean...don't you find the irony that MapleStory has the following:

1. One of the largest hacking/cheating community.
2. One of the most imbalanced set of classes.
3. One of the longest grinds.

And also the *coincidence?* of Nexon's latest development with trying to get users back:

1. Curving down the EXP and reducing it by 20%
2. More 2x Events
3. Brazil MS having a whole different EXP table.
4. KMS changing skills for almost all classes, with emphasis of buffing the underdog classes.
5. With 1-3 above, Nexon's constant newsletters to try to get old players back, also along with free 2x cards for them.

If it's not the grind that's killing our community, I really don't see what is. You can't just put the blame of leeching by pointing to the people who leeches. That's like where a teacher puts all the exam answers on the actual exam, make the actual exam 2 grade levels above the class material, then telling people not to look at the answers when attempting the exam.

The idea of have to or not have to is a moral sense.

The practicality is an objective sense. They either quit the game or they keep playing. After working for what may seem a long time, people who choose not to quit will attempt to continue in this game. But if Nexon did any research on human boredom tolerance and attention span, they'd have kept more customers from quitting and away from WoW to begin with. Only recently now do they realize how much customers they have lost out...read on.

I mean...don't you find the irony that MapleStory has the following:

1. One of the largest hacking/cheating community.
2. One of the most imbalanced set of classes.
3. One of the longest grinds.

And also the *coincidence?* of Nexon's latest development with trying to get users back:

1. Curving down the EXP and reducing it by 20%
2. More 2x Events
3. Brazil MS having a whole different EXP table.
4. KMS changing damage formula for almost all classes, with emphasis on the underdog classes.
5. With 1-3 above, Nexon's constant newsletters to try to get old players back, also along with free 2x cards for them.

That's wonderful, but how does it relate to Magicians being unbalanced? Your thread is just BAWWWW THEY TRAIN FASTER. Never mind the fact it's the only thing they do well. Look at the negatives along with the positives.

Standard history of a "complain about mage ultimates" thread:

1. Someone brings it up that mages train too fast.
2. Someone that can't afford leech complains about the effect of leeching.
3. Someone concurs and ties this to the "downfall" of the game "as its supposed to be played"
4. Mage/Bishop comes in and says there isn't any way of playing the game, says that the tradeoff is that mages can't do single target damage for crap.
5. Someone points out that bishops are wanted at parties.
6. Mages and bishops start arguing with one another about how bishops are broken, other classes join in the intra-class discussion and everyone gangs up on bishops (Insert 15 pages of complaining about Ele wands in here while we're at it)
7. Someone proposes a "new" solution to mage ultimates being either to remove them and give good DPS for mages, give them a cooldown, or make them hit less targets.
8. Mages and bishops stop yelling at each other and condemn the idea.
9. Eos points out that Nexon states that leeching is legitimate.
10. More semantics on what "legit" means.
11. Thread becomes 10 pages long, new people end up just repeating old points.
12. Thread goes full circle for another 30 pages of QQ.

Hey, I just saved us like a week's worth of "fun".

That's wonderful, but how does it relate to Magicians being unbalanced? Your thread is just BAWWWW THEY TRAIN FASTER. Never mind the fact it's the only thing they do well. Look at the negatives along with the positives.

Because of the following:

1. Magicians are allowing this whole system of leech (at our current scale...I mean, if someone leeched from my Paladin they'd get slower or as fast exp as if they trained themselves) for these much lower levels.

2. I didn't say to nerf down Mages. In fact, for all honest intent, I think the speed at which the 4th job Mage class levels at is actually the more reasonable and tolerable speed in which all classes of 2nd and 3rd job should be leveling at. Just look at how many mages "beat" this game compared to non-mages who will eventually quit. And that's also why I didn't emphasize this entire thread on class balance and just leech. There's a fundamentally stronger wrong issue here, and that is that this game is far too slow and a grind/chore for non-Mages and pre-4th job...to the point where the people who don't quit...half of them turn to leeching because they are unable to handle this tiring and boring mental and physical grind.

Just look at those who leeches and during which levels...majority are 7x-9x leechers, where they get roughly 1%/minute with leeching. Once they get to 9x, most of them no longer have the drive to train anymore at 12%/hour. So they either leech more at a slower rate now (more like 1%/2 min at Newties at 100 until), or quit. Then even if most of them do leech to 120, they lose the drive to keep playing hard and quit very soon down the line anyway. This happens because Nexon allows this to happen as a game-developer.

The truth: people who pick up a console video-game tend to beat the game without methods of cheating. People who pick up MS either tend to quit early, cheat, or both.

Again, I want to emphasize that this thread is NOT about nerfing Mages or complaining that Mages level too fast.

1. The game allows and encourages this. There is absolutely no way a mage can pay for ultimate spamming without either spending NX on 2x drop and pets, or by selling leech. People selling leech makes it more expensive to buy upgrades in the magician market, which in turn is a positive feedback loop that only makes it more enticing to leech. If mages could afford to train without losing millions of mesos per session, chances are there wouldn't be nearly as much leeching going on as it is right now.

2. Then there really is no point to this game is there? I presume you've been playing for a while now, and I'm assuming that you know how slow it used to be. The only "challenge" in this game is to level. It's already considerably easier to level now, and removing that impetus doesn't encourage playing...it just encourages a situation where people constantly desire an easier and ultimately bland game.

Because of the following:

1. Maplers are allowing this whole system of leech (at our current scale...I mean, if someone leeched from my Paladin they'd get slower or as fast exp as if they trained themselves) for these much lower levels.

It takes two to leech, one to buy and one to sell. And Bigfoot, Anego and Zakum have proven leech selling isn't boiled down to Magicians. Leave them alone. Other classes sell to even LOWER levels.

2. I didn't say to nerf down Mages. In fact, for all honest intent, I think the speed at which the 4th job Mage class levels at is actually the more reasonable and tolerable speed. Just look at how many mages "beat" this game compared to non-mages who will eventually quit. And that's also why I didn't emphasize this entire thread on class balance and just leech. There's a fundamentally stronger wrong issue here, and that is that this game is far too slow and a grind/chore for non-Mages and pre-4th job that people who don't quit...half of them turn to leeching because they are unable to handle this tiring and boring mental and physical grind.

Raising everyone else's training speed lowers Magicians' training ability over everyone else, thus taking away any usefulness they had, yes? And please don't tell me training a Magician isn't a chore. I got through 24 levels of BLIZZARD, POT, BLIZZARD, POT until I gave it up. Your view is biased.

The fault is not with the Magician class. Just stop it. Draconious has already told us where this is going.

1. The game allows and encourages this. There is absolutely no way a mage can pay for ultimate spamming without either spending NX on 2x drop and pets, or by selling leech. People selling leech makes it more expensive to buy upgrades in the magician market, which in turn is a positive feedback loop that only makes it more enticing to leech. If mages could afford to train without losing millions of mesos per session, chances are there wouldn't be nearly as much leeching going on as it is right now.

2. Then there really is no point to this game is there? I presume you've been playing for a while now, and I'm assuming that you know how slow it used to be. The only "challenge" in this game is to level. It's already considerably easier to level now, and removing that impetus doesn't encourage playing...it just encourages a situation where people constantly desire an easier and ultimately bland game.

1. Exactly, your argument proves my point of this design flaw. Everyone want to level at the pace of a mage who spams ultimates. But it's costly, so they exploit this system of selling leech, which is supported by the game's design.

2. Yes I have been around for a very long time. And I'm saying that this "challenge" is the same force that both drives people to quit and to leech. I'm not saying to remove this impetus entirely. But let's look at it this way...

a. From levels 1-30, a player can arguably level this fast in a few days if they knew what they were doing. 1 hour/level isn't hard with 2x card.
b. From levels 31-50, you have the repetitive CPQ that can make 31-50 in a matter of a few days as well.
c. From 51-70 onwards is where it starts to slow down noticeably. You have LMPQ for maybe 1%/minute as opposed to 1 level/hour (almost halved in speed).
d. Past 70, however, it's another halve in the actual training rate...and you get down to 20%/hour. Incidentally, at 7x is where leech levels start. They jump and shoot up to 60%/hour again, and thus people continue to leech, thinking they can keep leveling fast.
e. Then at 10x where they're down to 30%/hour leeching, they start to get discouraged again.
f. At 12x they essentially stop leeching, realize that they're at as good as 10-12%/hour, tries on their own, get bored, and majority of them quit (and you can prove this by just looking at the handful number of non-Mage people who make it to 15x-16x if you try to organize new HT runs).

My point? This game already has a drastically changing rate of an EXP curve that makes many people quit even just past midway through the whole game in terms of raw levels. That isn't indication enough that it's flaw in design?

And while I'm on topic of design, I just had a presentation in my class yesterday about a research on video game design in which the designers are supposed to strive to make games where the gamer 1. plays hard, 2. do not quit (before beating the game), and 3. plays forever (even after beating the game). That's the idea and definition of good video game design.

The play forever factor is what Maple aims to get at in order to get the most profits in the long run. But they're currently losing out people to #1 and 2 of this design.

1. You said that the mages themselves enforce this. If I didn't have to spend 1.5Mill/hr to train with the understanding that I'd probably never be able to recover most of that, then I'd probably just train myself. It's because the GAME does this to us that this alliance between haves and have nots is created.

1. You said that the mages themselves enforce this. If I didn't have to spend 1.5Mill/hr to train with the understanding that I'd probably never be able to recover most of that, then I'd probably just train myself. It's because the GAME does this to us that this alliance between haves and have nots is created.

If it seems that I implied that mages were the sole reason for all this, then I want to clarify again that that is not what I'm arguing (see previous posts of mine). And yes you're right, it is the game, and that is what I'm trying to bring attention to Nexon for.

My point? This game already has a drastically changing rate of an EXP curve that makes many people quit even just past midway through the whole game in terms of raw levels. That isn't indication enough that it's flaw in design?

. . .this is the oldest criticism of Maple. Nothing's going to change, despite how badly many may want it. Funny image, though.

If MysticHLE sincerely didn't mean to single out Mages, let's not have this thread turn into that discussion. We all know how those turn out. e_e

. . .this is the oldest criticism of Maple. Nothing's going to change, despite how badly many may want it. Funny image, though.

If MysticHLE sincerely didn't mean to single out Mages, let's not have this thread turn into that discussion. We all know how those turn out. e_e

Well, things have been changing slowly...with the recent EXP curve change (though they claim that it will only last throughout this event. >.>...I daresay that this curve shift was a test that Nexon wanted to do to see how many more people would play and come back [which is probably why they said it's only this month...but they might bring back later/keep]), and the more often 2x events. I just want Nexon to finally realize their flaw in design of this whole game and keep at these changes and make these change AND us players STAY.

Personal note: I personally would rather them make level 1-200 in a matter of a few months AND have classes varied and fun enough for me to want to make a character of each class to level 200. Then all that is needed would be new contents, classes, PQs, items, quests, and other perks to keep me playing. I'd easily want to stay to keep playing and buying NX even more and feeling less tiring/chore-like. It won't just feel that my NX is just bought for another 3 months for my mostly-AFK non-mage character that levels at 2%/hour.

I quit MapleStory because leveling became too easy

Anyway, just look forward to the new patch that came up in MSEA: It'll fix the leech issue.

Let me just say this.
Kids these day, want everything NOW.
They don't want to wait so they can enjoy a high level in any sort of games.
Games even like Restaurant City have cheat engines.
Everyone just can't be bothered to put in time for anything "fun" anymore.
It's a twisted way of enjoyment, I suppose.