You're all figments of my imagination

[color="#cc8899"]I did this thread on Basil a long time ago, and got a bunch of...well...Basil-like answers. There was some serious discussion, but it got lost in the sea of "No u" and "SS or it didn't happen." Anyways, I am looking for a way to disprove the notion that everyone, everything, and any yet-to-be-conceived of idea, anything that is, has been, or will ever be, every thought, every action, is a figment of my overactive imagination. My basis for this notion is the mentally ill, particularly those who hallucinate strongly or seem to live in their own world.

Is it possible to prove one's existence to another person, or to prove that one's reality is the true reality? If not, is there anything that can't be chalked up to simply being my imagination trying to trick me into believing something I imagined as real?

-Afterthought-
Perhaps the fact that medication can sometimes force someone to see the "common" reality is grounds for an argument, but it could still all be chalked up to me imagining the medication affecting people. Anyways...[/COLOR]

Thinking like this will drive you insane, not that there is anything wrong with being insane. Being insane allows you to see and view things differently than other people and come up with new things. The fact that most geniuses are insane proves this.

Anyway, if I am part of your imagination and you're a part of my imagination who is the main imaginer?

I have pondered this a while myself, but then I deemed it a selfish thought.

Why? Well, assuming that these grounds are true, this means that you're saying your mom, dad, friends, family...are all figments of your imagination.

Now thinking about this more strongly...

What about the concept of learning? How do you learn from your own imagination?

Thinking like this will drive you insane, not that there is anything wrong with being insane. Being insane allows you to see and view things differently than other people and come up with new things. The fact that most geniuses are insane proves this.

Anyway, if I am part of your imagination and you're a part of my imagination who is the main imaginer?

[color="#cc8899"]I was hoping nobody would start doing this argument, as it doesn't actually accomplish anything but change who is asking the question.

I'd have to say me, though, based on the argument I am trying to have disproved. And I am already quite insane, ty. I've thought like this for years, and still no way to prove my own existence (the main reason I ask this is because if people can't prove to me that they exist, I can't prove my own existence).[/COLOR]

I have pondered this a while myself, but then I deemed it a selfish thought.

Why? Well, assuming that these grounds are true, this means that you're saying your mom, dad, friends, family...are all figments of your imagination.

Now thinking about this more strongly...

What about the concept of learning? How do you learn from your own imagination?

[color="#cc8899"]Kids make imaginary friends to keep them happy/company/take blame for bad things, how would that be different (@ first bold)
@ second bold - I don't (in this scenario) - I make it up as I go along, or I already know the information, and my imagination tricks me into thinking I don't until I "learn" it. The whole notion relies on my imagination being beyond my own control.[/COLOR]

I was hoping nobody would start doing this argument, as it doesn't actually accomplish anything but change who is asking the question.

You've never had a good argument about it then.

You've never had a good argument about it then.

No, it simply detracts from what I'm trying to do - people did the same thing on Basil, and it ended up being "No, you're part of my imagination" over and over, instead of a real debate. All that response does is start a circular argument that never ends. What I asked for was a way to prove one's own existence, not simply countering by discrediting MY existence. This is about more than proving your existence to me, it's me looking for a way to prove my OWN existence, which I can't do with your argument.

So your trying to argue against the thought that everything you see done and everybody you see doing it, etc etc is just an imaginary movement or object?

I see it as a matter of knowledge. I know things that you may not and vice versa. In the event that you can no longer gain any information from anything around you, than you can question the ideals of existence, much like CoB's last statement. If you can learn than you cannot be the absolute.

[color="#cc8899"]Kids make imaginary friends to keep them happy/company/take blame for bad things, how would that be different (@ first bold)
@ second bold - I don't (in this scenario) - I make it up as I go along, or I already know the information, and my imagination tricks me into thinking I don't until I "learn" it. The whole notion relies on my imagination being beyond my own control.[/COLOR]

@first bullet. Imaginary friends are crap compared to your parents.

@second bullet, 1st part. Then how did you make up math?

@second bullet, 2nd part. Why would your imagination trick you? It's not like your imagination is bored, or anything.

It's not really an argument, nor is it "my" argument. More of a discussion since I am curious whether or not you've view it from more than one point of view since I myself have a habit of viewing one point from a million different ways.

Anyway.

You could always kill yourself, if you end up at a heaven or hell afterwards it must mean things are bigger than yourself. But of course that could also be a part of your delusion. . .

I see it as a matter of knowledge. I know things that you may not and vice versa. In the event that you can no longer gain any information from anything around you, than you can question the ideals of existence, much like CoB's last statement. If you can learn than you cannot be the absolute.

[color="#cc8899"]Again, as was my response to CoB, my imagination could work to "hide" knowledge from me, in order to convince me that I was learning, keeping the illusion of reality more...realistic, for lack of a better word.

To Infighter, yes.[/COLOR]

@first bullet. Imaginary friends are crap compared to your parents.

@second bullet, 1st part. Then how did you make up math?

@second bullet, 2nd part. Why would your imagination trick you? It's not like your imagination is bored, or anything.

[color="#cc8899"]@first, Not always. A kid with craptastic parents will often imagine a friend to help them cope with reality.

@second, I could be insane, or my imagination could be really bored. I could be a computer simulating existence. Many possible answers, really.

@Seraphim, yes, I have, but looking at it from "I could be a figment of your imagination" is ENTIRELY the problem. I'm asking you to prove YOUR existence as a way to give ME a way to prove MINE. You questioning MY existence doesn't do any good for me.[/COLOR]

@first bullet. Imaginary friends are crap compared to your parents.

@second bullet, 1st part. Then how did you make up math?

@second bullet, 2nd part. Why would your imagination trick you? It's not like your imagination is bored, or anything.

You do not MAKE UP math. Math is a lesson that has been thought out by many experts. It's a finite subject where there will always be just one definite answer to the problem.

Your imagination does indeed trick you, that's the whole point of illusions. You see something, and may think of something else or see something else. Same with people, it happens everyday. You see somebody that looks familiar cause your imagination just played a part in trying to recognize the person.

Again, as was my response to CoB, my imagination could work to "hide" knowledge from me, in order to convince me that I was learning, keeping the illusion of reality more...realistic, for lack of a better word.

I think your mind tries to make more imaginative thoughts than it does try and focus you back into reality. That's just my opinion though.

Well, I can prove my own existence through my own lacking. I exist because I cannot conjure up the multitude of different civilizations that have been understood to exist in fact and fiction. I know I exist because I don't know stuff (and walgreens still exists) that is my only way of seeing it.

You do not MAKE UP math. Math is a lesson that has been thought out by many experts. It's a finite subject where there will always be just one definite answer to the problem.

Your imagination does indeed trick you, that's the whole point of illusions. You see something, and may think of something else or see something else. Same with people, it happens everyday. You see somebody that looks familiar cause your imagination just played a part in trying to recognize the person.



I think your mind tries to make more imaginative thoughts than it does try and focus you back into reality. That's just my opinion though.

[color="#cc8899"]My argument is that reality (as everyone perceives it) is a figment of my imagintion, so...ty for support? I think?

@ Beserker, for the sake of my argument, as stated at the beginning, I imagined all existence, past, present, and future. Just because I can't consciously remember everything doesn't mean I didn't imagine it - my best example would be a dream, where you create the entire plane of existence and its rules. You can't (usually) consciously control it, but you can make changes to even the laws of physics on the fly. Anything can happen. So perhaps I'm dreaming?[/COLOR]

[color="#cc8899"]My argument is that reality (as everyone perceives it) is a figment of my imagination, so...ty for support? I think?
[/COLOR]

That's what I'm saying. We don't really know if what we see, is what everyone else sees. Everyone could have their own viewpoint of what is 'reality' and what is 'imagination'. My friend was talking to me about the other day about something like, "My green may be grass, but your green may be leaf, I could see pink as you could see black. My pink, is your black. All our views on reality are different". So like, I think everyone lives in a imagination world of their own, where most things are the same, but not everything. (Such as, everyone knows a PS2 is a PS2, but something like a tree could look different in your imagination than it does in someone elses).

Thinking like this will drive you insane, not that there is anything wrong with being insane. Being insane allows you to see and view things differently than other people and come up with new things. The fact that most geniuses are insane proves this.

Anyway, if I am part of your imagination and you're a part of my imagination who is the main imaginer?

"Insane" doesn't really mean much outside of law. Differences in culture or lifestyle (looking upon tribal civilization as a man of the new world, for example) can be seen as "insane", simply because we don't understand them.

That's what I'm saying. We don't really know if what we see, is what everyone else sees. Everyone could have their own viewpoint of what is 'reality' and what is 'imagination'. My friend was talking to me about the other day about something like, "My green may be grass, but your green may be leaf, I could see pink as you could see black. My pink, is your black. All our views on reality are different". So like, I think everyone lives in a imagination world of their own, where most things are the same, but not everything. (Such as, everyone knows a PS2 is a PS2, but something like a tree could look different in your imagination than it does in someone elses).

The color thing is actually a pretty widely discussed notion, and could explain "poor" fashion sense, differing color preferences, etc. Can also be used to explain differences in food preferences, although culture plays a role too. I don't want this thread to get sidetracked though, so I won't discuss this further.

"Insane" doesn't really mean much outside of law. Differences in culture or lifestyle (looking upon tribal civilization as a man of the new world, for example) can be seen as "insane", simply because we don't understand them.

That's what I meant for insane to mean, aka, not the norm.

The whole world is crazy, but only a few are insane.

That's what I meant for insane to mean, aka, not the norm.

The whole world is crazy, but only a few are insane.

You become insane when you see something your not used too, and it's so new to the point that your brain can't take the reality of it. Imagination takes over and has to try and work on your brain to make you see things in a better perspective.