Snipe first

Nope, BM will only "beat" MM's at lvl 180~190+, from lvl 130~180 MM will "beat" them. That is, without Onyx Apples.

With Onyx Apples it's different though, BM's will beat MM's above lvl 140~150... (Snipe's damage doesnt get boosted with Onyx Apples). Same goes for ultra-godly BM's, the more powerfull a BM is, the sooner they will "beat" MM's at the same lvl as theirs.

Afterall, I would say they're equal now, because at all levels they're within 10% of each other's damage...

I don't care what the "facts" are. I don't know anyone who uses Apples for every single boss they encounter aside from Zakum and Horntail.

The real fact is most people will never get to 180 so what you are trying to prove is irrelevant. With that said, Marksmen are more powerful on single targets...

I don't care what the "facts" are. I don't know anyone who uses Apples for every single boss they encounter aside from Zakum and Horntail.

The real fact is most people will never get to 180 so what you are trying to prove is irrelevant. With that said, Marksmen are more powerful on single targets...

Yeah that's what I said in my conclusion, BM's and MM's are about equal now!

Eh, BM is still going to be the better class overall.

Either way, I don't care much about the Snipe update (I don't even have the skill maxed yet at 171, lol), but the 1 second Piercing Arrow charge makes me really really happy.

That chart is in seconds, right? Will the 5 second and 4 second cool down make that much difference?

Yes. Snipe's damage increase over pure Strafe is (199,999 - Strafe damage) / cool time. That last one second makes a 25% difference and is about a big of an increase as 150 to 120 seconds (level 11 to 14). Snipe's damage really takes off at the last 4-5 points in it, since it's a 1/x function approaching 0.

Eh, BM is still going to be the better class overall.

Either way, I don't care much about the Snipe update (I don't even have the skill maxed yet at 171, lol), but the 1 second Piercing Arrow charge makes me really really happy.

Why would you say that? MMs own BMs so hard in training now it's not even funny. They're now competitive at bossing, too. Your main disadvantage is not being able to pin even mobile bosses as slow as HH, which can usually be solved with Puppet and isn't that big of a deal anyway.

I think you're underestimating Hurricane - by the time marksmen get a decent level of piercing arrow, hurricane is more than capable of handling mobs well.

Snipe really isn't a big deal when it comes to (skele) training anyway, and Piercing Arrow is usually charged while moving, so 2 -> 1 second is going to make that much of a difference in training (you'll be decimating mobs at about the same speed). It does mean we can screw up more though (don't have to start chargin' immediately when you've cleaned up a mob).

Sure, being able to do more damage at bosses is great and all, but I thought we did decently well already. I don't really see why it was necessary to lower the cooldown (the 199k update was needed though: 99k is pretty mediocre when 4 crit strafe do almost the same kind of damage, and appled strafe would usually outdamage it)

Edited my post a bit for clarification

We will have 1sec charge Pierce in this patch too ?

yes, we do have 1 second charge pierce.

YAY , Ive just read the Skill Adjustment from Nexon
MM will rock now ^o^

MM really seems OP now. Dps of a BM(who is already on the upper tire), if not btter, with the ability to freeze, and pierce to destroy mobs.

snipe first is dumber than drinking toilette water. pierce at 1 sec charge at skele dungeon > sex.

these new marksmen that cant even use pierce and got so used to sitting at newts and sniping make me sad. only reason why snipe is better is to boss, if you go to HT at 13x go for it, otherwise get se, mastery and pierce before snipe.

snipe first is dumber than drinking toilette water. pierce at 1 sec charge at skele dungeon > sex.

these new marksmen that cant even use pierce and got so used to sitting at newts and sniping make me sad. only reason why snipe is better is to boss, if you go to HT at 13x go for it, otherwise get se, mastery and pierce before snipe.

Huh? What're you saying, that you wouldn't use Snipe on Zakum/Pap/Pianus/Bigfoot/Anego?

Cyanne's 7m+ exp/hr figure for only using Snipe at CGs seems pretty impressive (though could be wrong), I only get 5-5.5m/hr when I solo train at Newts on my sair.

Snipe First is extremely stupid, it's worthless until it's maxed.






(which is why I'm doing it)

Huh? What're you saying, that you wouldn't use Snipe on Zakum/Pap/Pianus/Bigfoot/Anego?

Cyanne's 7m+ exp/hr figure for only using Snipe at CGs seems pretty impressive (though could be wrong), I only get 5-5.5m/hr when I solo train at Newts on my sair.

you forget that she will never get more than that, and i am pretty sure that is 2x exp. once i get there i will let you know, but i di remember getting 10mill an hour on the old skele map back on xbish. new skele map + better pierce, gotta be sexy

you forget that she will never get more than that, and i am pretty sure that is 2x exp. once i get there i will let you know, but i di remember getting 10mill an hour on the old skele map back on xbish. new skele map + better pierce, gotta be sexy

At what level though? I though we were talking about early 13x, which is when Snipe would be maxed. By 14x or 15x the Snipe build MM would also have a higher level SE/Boost and probably a good Pierce too.

Edit: Anyway, the people I know that are doing this build aren't doing it because it'll help them train super fast. It's mostly for bossing or god-knows-what-else (referring to Sage lol).

I remember running the numbers for 4 sec Snipe at CGs and I remember thinking they weren't very impressive.

Then again I had no real basis for comparison, not having trained a 12x MM.

Yeah screwed up, that's with 3-second snipe, lol. With the current cooldown and CGs, it's still 6100*60*60/5 = 4392000 exp/hour with ONLY snipe. Most 133-ish MMs can't even break that rate while soloing. Keep in mind it's not even including anything you can do in the bit over 4 seconds between snipes, meaning that you could very easily get around 6-7mil solo even at that low a level.

If CGs aren't for you, just snipe and strafe skelegons. If you can kill a skelegon within the snipe cooldown, which should be pretty easy unless you have horrible equipment or something (5/6 shots of strafe), you'll get about (4500+4750)/2*60*60/5*2 = 6.66mil/hour, though this might be idealistic as you'll run into overlapping mobs sometimes. This can also be applied to CGs to get a rate of 8784000 exp/hour, though they seal and can't be frozen unfortunately.

The problem with pierce is that it requires marksman boost to support it due to pierce's high base damage. Depending how quickly you want pierce, you might have to forgo points in SE as well as obviously leave snipe at 1, both of which jeopardize bossing abilities for only a minimal training advantage at best.

Er...not sure when MM begin 2hkoing Skelegons, but 1hko every 8-9 shots isn't really all that impressive. 200k seems kind of wasted on an 80k HP monster.

At what level though? I though we were talking about early 13x, which is when Snipe would be maxed. By 14x or 15x the Snipe build MM would also have a higher level SE/Boost and probably a good Pierce too.

Edit: Anyway, the people I know that are doing this build aren't doing it because it'll help them train super fast. It's mostly for bossing or god-knows-what-else (referring to Sage lol).

Aya! Because it's really stupid.


*points at my other projects. Most notably KnuckleArrow the Strless Brawler*

I still think you should MAX SE and put some points into boost before adding snipe.

Maxing Snipe does not get you that many exp, because even though it says the cooldown is 5sec, it actually fluctuates a bit around 6-8 sec based on what other people with max snipe have claimed and my experience with Gaviota (which also has a 5 sec cooldown theoritically).