Soul Arrow now stacks with +Attack Arrows.

-Sigh- What's this about Pap? Go solo Headless Horseman on Crossroads, all you have to do is hold the attack button down for a few seconds and he doesn't do anything that may cause any variation.

Well, pap is just convenient. At 15x, I "train" by getting 4%/day at pap, lol. I never go look for HH anymore D;

Well, pap is just convenient. At 15x, I "train" by getting 4%/day at pap, lol. I never go look for HH anymore D;

Family System is AMAZING for getting around to places. It's a free VIP once a day

Here's the thing:
Bowmen need to Strafe out Pap's bombs, so the more spawn on top, the faster the solo.
Pap's 2nd form needs to be repuppeted based on how long Puppet lasts. The longer each Puppet lasts, the faster that body is taken out.

I'm kind of jumping in late to this discussion, but are you saying those things apply to all Bowman? It only applies to lower leveled Bowman. Actually, I fail to see why you would ever need to Strafe Bombs (MM excluded, of course). I never did. The second part is true, but only when you're too weak to KB 2nd form.

I've done well over 300 Pap kills and timed nearly every single one (some literally to the second, others more loosely). I can tell you my time is almost completely stable at 6 minutes, 30 seconds to 7 minutes, 10 seconds. The upper amount is never exceeded and the lower amount is very rarely improved. Factors that affect the time are:

A) Bombs, obviously. If Pap summons top Bombs quicker, you lose less time getting hit by Bombs. If Pap summons bottom Bombs in front of you rather than ON you, you lose less time getting hit. Bombs cost me a few seconds apiece when they spawn in my MB range, get MB'd and then blow up on me. That usually happens 3-7 times per run, give or take.

B) What I call "Pap's Dirty Tactic." What Pap will do is summon Bombs, and then while they're blowing up around you, he'll summon more Bombs. This gives him just enough time to move within range of you, and then he either Stuns or Dispels you. If either of those happen, time loss occurs. Getting Stunned forces you to retreat and repin him. Dispel forces you to retreat and recast all your buffs and then repin him. Rarely happens, 0-2 times per run, but it's the worst time waster.

Those two things are really all that causes my time to differ from Pap to Pap. Bombs are manageable and don't affect your time much, but a perfect run would, indeed, be one where Pap never bottom summons. The only time they really affect you is when Pap does his Bomb spam (multiple bottom spawns in a row). His Dirty Tactic is easy to avoid if you learn to see it coming (Bomb spam = move back a bit to adjust for Pap advancement).

And I guess you could also consider this a variable:

C) Pap going into his hiding shell. What happens nearly 70% (I'd say) of the time is Pap will enter his shell directly after Puppet dies. This is the optimal result, in my opinion. When Puppet dies, and he enters his shell, keep attacking for a bit (assuming you can pot fast or have auto) and then run right (using mount), recast Puppet and run left to get back into position. Pap should be out of his shell at exactly the time you get back. It works perfect, very efficient. Time loss occurs when Pap doesn't enter his shell when Puppet dies. Instead, he'll sit there attacking you. Getting attacked while attacking costs you a few seconds (the more the longer it goes on). I prefer to wait for him to shell to go and recast Puppet, so sometimes this costs me time.

This situation could be avoided by simply running and recasting Puppet immediately after it dies, no matter what. However, this will allow Pap to advance in the cases where he doesn't shell right away. It could create potential problems but not if you're careful. I guess it's just preference between the killer.

For 2nd body, I don't move at all when it summons. I just keep attacking and pin it left like I did 1st body. Never any time loss there (unless you count the few seconds I give up to let it move to the middle so I can screenshot the drops). The worst case scenario for 2nd body (which has only happened a few times in ALL my Paps) is when you do a big streak of non-criticals. That will cause 2nd body to move too close to you and force you to either tank a hit, move back or resort to the old Puppet tactic.

When you're a high enough level, Pap kills don't vary much at all. My times are very steady and always within less than a minute variance. I honestly have no idea how relevant any of this is to the topic at hand, but I just felt like sharing and bringing up my concern with Kevvl's post. I will add that I have not noticed any time difference in my Paps since this change. If anything, the extra 4 att simply increases the chance my low-end time occurs.

If I can contribute in any way, I'd be glad to help.

Two-three Paps ago I used a Heartstopper so that I could just about 100% KB the second body. When the second body spawned, I thought I could just stand there and keep shooting as you described, but it froze in place for a bit and I connected with about 3-4 attacks, and quickly unfroze and zoomed into me at high velocity, killing me. Does this lag ever happen to you?

Two-three Paps ago I used a Heartstopper so that I could just about 100% KB the second body. When the second body spawned, I thought I could just stand there and keep shooting as you described, but it froze in place for a bit and I connected with about 3-4 attacks, and quickly unfroze and zoomed into me at high velocity, killing me. Does this lag ever happen to you?

No, it never has.

Added note about 2nd body pinning: If it decides to fly up upon spawning, be sure to move back a bit just in case. When he flies down to readjust to your level, he'll have gained some ground on you. Be cautious of that.

-Sigh- What's this about Pap? Go solo Headless Horseman on Crossroads, all you have to do is hold the attack button down for a few seconds and he doesn't do anything that may cause any variation.

Why so logical?

y so logik?

Because. Headless Horseman is too difficult to find at times when people camp out there to kill it on every channel. And the 300k exp is not worth the waiting for it to spawn or the amount of time it takes to find one.

Because. Headless Horseman is too difficult to find at times when people camp out there to kill it on every channel. And the 300k exp is not worth the waiting for it to spawn or the amount of time it takes to find one.

Nobody camps out there for the exact reason you listed in your second sentence. I can often scroll through the channels and take out 7-8, and I'm in Bera. Each kill takes 55 seconds to a minute, and it's still .5% at my level.

Because. Headless Horseman is too difficult to find at times when people camp out there to kill it on every channel. And the 300k exp is not worth the waiting for it to spawn or the amount of time it takes to find one.

Nono, I was asking why he was being so logical, when everyone else is arguing about Pap.


I'll test the average number of Hits-To-Kill Headless with/without Diamond Arrows, see if there's any change.

edit:
Well...this is odd. Technolink got on my mule, we did some further tests.
Stone Masks
HP: 600.
Defence: 35.

I should be able to 1hko them with a damage range of 399~662. That's my range with Attack Arrows, my range without is 350~582.

 620 damage

But it's still alive.
[spoiler=Here's Techno's Screen.][/spoiler]
542 damage. =/

[spoiler=Let's try again, on snails.][/spoiler]
[spoiler=Techno's screen.][/spoiler]


Looks like Soul Arrow now stacks with Attack Arrows on a client sided basis. Meaning, your damage range goes up, and the damage you see being dealt goes up, but the damage that monsters take, and that other people see does not. That was fun while it lasted =/

Still not convinced?
[spoiler=My Wife's damage range with Attack Arrows][/spoiler]
[spoiler=My Wife's damage range without Attack Arrows][/spoiler]


And, damage dealt on her screen vs. my screen:

 My Screen

 Her Screen

Edit: Haha, ninja'd your

Kev and I just proved it using the easiest way (no average times and such).

Simply enough, kev got a lvl 12 xbow, putting his normal range at 350~582, and diamond at 399~662.

He then went to stone masks (who have 600 hp and 35 def).
If the attack arrows applied, he should have been able to 1 hit. He couldn't 1 hit ever. Infact, we found out the damage is client sided (as you guys theorized), his screen displayed something over 600, and mine under 600.

His thread is on the way, I just wanted to before I sent to sleep.

EDIT: Beat me to it.

Oh, hah, a lot of you guys wasted mesoes on Diamond Arrows~~.

Sucks, doesn't it?

Oh, hah, a lot of you guys wasted mesoes on Diamond Arrows~~.

Sucks, doesn't it?

Yes, it does.

Oh, hah, a lot of you guys wasted mesoes on Diamond Arrows~~.

Sucks, doesn't it?

Yeah, because a whole 40k is such a waste...

Don't be a jerk.

As conclusive as you want to make that seem, all those values are still within range.

As conclusive as you want to make that seem, all those values are still within range.

What more would be required? We've got screenshots of me without Diamond Arrows, dealing the exact same damage on both screens, if you want me to post those. This pretty much proves that it's client sided only. We all know that server sided damage shows up on other player's screens - the Critical glitch proves that. Damage dealt registers differently than damage shown sometimes (Or, all the time with Attack Arrows+Soul Arrow).

What more would be required? We've got screenshots of me without Diamond Arrows, dealing the exact same damage on both screens, if you want me to post those. This pretty much proves that it's client sided only. We all know that server sided damage shows up on other player's screens - the Critical glitch proves that. Damage dealt registers differently than damage shown sometimes (Or, all the time with Attack Arrows+Soul Arrow).

Post an image of yourself hitting lower than your range, like the old days.

Post an image of yourself hitting lower than your range, like the old days.

That doesn't work, the glitch is client sided.

Unless you want to see someone ELSE hitting lower than their damage range, with me watching (Or Vice Versa). I suppose that would work.

Why does Nexon like to pineapple with archers so much? What in the mapleing world did we ever do to them?

They crush our dreams yet again T.T

That doesn't work, the glitch is client sided.

Unless you want to see someone ELSE hitting lower than their damage range, with me watching (Or Vice Versa). I suppose that would work.

But still useless, it's the same test as the higher one.

The 1 hit test should prove everything, the snail one as an obvious retest.

And like Kev said, we did make sure that normally the damages appear the same on both screens as well.

But still useless, it's the same test as the higher one.

The 1 hit test should prove everything, the snail one as an obvious retest.

And like Kev said, we did make sure that normally the damages appear the same on both screens as well.

Whatever, did it anyway.
[spoiler=Qynat's damage range with Attack Arrows][/spoiler]
[spoiler=Qynat's damage range without Attack Arrows][/spoiler]

 My Screen

[spoiler=Qynat's Screen][/spoiler]