Dusk Wrote:Is it just me, or do we have a shortage of points with the skill updates? You have to leave Hypnotize at 12 and Hero's Will at 1 if you plan on maxing MW 30.
Every single job advancement is like this, where you have to sacrifice a skill that really doesn't do much for you so you get the most out of what you have. Every single job has a useless skill. The only one that doesn't have to worry about it, is 4th job because you can max everything, so i'm not surprised they did this. As it is now with MW30/HW5 it's impossible for any job to max everything, which was possible before MW30/HW5.
It's not like people will complain anyway with MW and more frequent HW, lol.
modular Wrote:you may as well just leave those 12 points you have in hypnotize as free points. its obviously not a training skill. when youre 19x whatre you gonna do, hypnotize a skele then kill on the other side of the map? while it kills maybe 1 monster in its full time as your minion?
meh
the thread is for discussion right? be nice, im just commenting.
Sorry if you felt that any part of my post was attacking you, I didn't mean it. I put Hypnotize up to 12 because there's nothing else to put points into. You could max Hero's Will, I guess, or go back and put points in Ice Splitter, but you've essentially come to a point where nothing is really useful and when that happens I usually prefer to dump points in the tab they belong rather than putting them into random skills in the previous jobs. Feel free to consider them free points. Like I said, it's just a guideline, and like Shikage said, if you have any issues with it, post your own build. That's the point of the thread.
Sylphior Wrote:ok, idk if you can answer this question correctly right now. steve's not on right now, so i'll just ask. this is about 3rd job builds. i finally saw his and kazoo's updated builds, due to Inside the Keep.
and honestly, from looks of it i preferred steve's old build, where it followed the standard jr newtie build, getting octo maxed(or at the right lvl) at lvl 84, starting the jr newtie training at that lvl. then it would go on to 26 IS, max FT, 15 Gaviota, and max Homing in the end(or switch em around)
in their updated version, it goes immediately for the IS/FT combo, then Octopus, saying to train at NightShadows instead. then the usual 15 Gaviota/Max Homing.
Jazter Wrote:How could you don't want to get Max Battleship Earlier? I thought everyone would get hype about 18 levels worth of HP for a mere 3 levels worth of SP.
cause if youre good at demounting by the time you have your main attack maxed (cannon) you shouldnt have a problem w/ ship hp. at 131 you have 26k(?) ship hp. adding 42k hp on top of 26k isnt as useful as say... adding 42k to 2k. so you may as well get more attacks to help train.
modular Wrote:cause if youre good at demounting by the time you have your main attack maxed (cannon) you shouldnt have a problem w/ ship hp. at 131 you have 26k(?) ship hp. adding 42k hp on top of 26k isnt as useful as say... adding 42k to 2k. so you may as well get more attacks to help train.
For a bossing build, maxing battleship after cannon would be ideal. Even for both bossing and training, getting more than 1 point in battleship BEFORE maxing cannong will help you train more than the points that would have gone into cannon, because at level 1 no matter where you train battleship will break extremely easily regardless of player handling. Unless you're sniping of course.
modular Wrote:cause if youre good at demounting by the time you have your main attack maxed (cannon) you shouldnt have a problem w/ ship hp. at 131 you have 26k(?) ship hp. adding 42k hp on top of 26k isnt as useful as say... adding 42k to 2k. so you may as well get more attacks to help train.
I'm under the assumption that you think 26k is a lot of HP. Aside from that, I think 3 levels worth of SP for 36k HP is way worth it. It will more than likely double how long you last on your ship. Although Dusk is going with Aerial Strike before Torpedo, that doesn't mean it'll help Burst Fire kill faster, in most situations. Another thing is, Dusk's build puts Rapid Fire close to the bottom so that makes Battleship even more important.
2009-04-20, 03:39 AM (This post was last modified: 2009-04-20, 03:52 AM by Dusk.)
Jazter Wrote:I'm under the assumption that you think 26k is a lot of HP. Aside from that, I think 3 levels worth of SP for 36k HP is way worth it. It will more than likely double how long you last on your ship. Although Dusk is going with Aerial Strike before Torpedo, that doesn't mean it'll help Burst Fire kill faster, in most situations. Another thing is, Dusk's build puts Rapid Fire close to the bottom so that makes Battleship even more important.
It's a training build. By mid 13x you have your ship for more than 90% of the time when training, so I'd invest in Air Strike/Torpedo first. By the time you get to the point where you start adding to your 1v1 skills in my build, your ship is already a solid 80k HP and the Battleship points aren't as important as the additional damage from Bullseye. And it'd take a lot of convincing for me to consider Rapid Fire a useful training skill, at least compared to your other options. For a bossing build I'd put Battleship right after Cannon, then Bullseye, before Rapid Fire.
A little reasoning for my build: I'm not a huge bosser and I feel that Corsair bossing potential isn't really what it's hyped up to be until at higher levels when your ship is practically a tank. I'd prefer to be able to take on Skele MD and Time Temple if we get it as efficiently as possible, taking into account that my training buddies are mostly archers and low level Bishops. Once I get to a nice high level I'll go back and add into bossing skills. This build is for someone who wants to get to a higher level faster, trains with a party of similar strength instead of soloing or training with Bishops that hit max damage, and wants to postpone bossing until they can really own the bosses.
Jazter Wrote:I'm under the assumption that you think 26k is a lot of HP. Aside from that, I think 3 levels worth of SP for 36k HP is way worth it. It will more than likely double how long you last on your ship. Although Dusk is going with Aerial Strike before Torpedo, that doesn't mean it'll help Burst Fire kill faster, in most situations. Another thing is, Dusk's build puts Rapid Fire close to the bottom so that makes Battleship even more important.
of course air strike helps burst fire... you maim more monsters while waiting for your ship to repair. those monsters you would have to climb a rope to burst fire at? 2-3hkoed while you shoot at some other monster. extra dps all the time! just gotta use it!
2009-04-20, 04:33 PM (This post was last modified: 2009-04-20, 04:38 PM by Jazter.)
Dusk Wrote:It's a training build. By mid 13x you have your ship for more than 90% of the time when training, so I'd invest in Air Strike/Torpedo first. By the time you get to the point where you start adding to your 1v1 skills in my build, your ship is already a solid 80k HP and the Battleship points aren't as important as the additional damage from Bullseye. And it'd take a lot of convincing for me to consider Rapid Fire a useful training skill, at least compared to your other options. For a bossing build I'd put Battleship right after Cannon, then Bullseye, before Rapid Fire.
A little reasoning for my build: I'm not a huge bosser and I feel that Corsair bossing potential isn't really what it's hyped up to be until at higher levels when your ship is practically a tank. I'd prefer to be able to take on Skele MD and Time Temple if we get it as efficiently as possible, taking into account that my training buddies are mostly archers and low level Bishops. Once I get to a nice high level I'll go back and add into bossing skills. This build is for someone who wants to get to a higher level faster, trains with a party of similar strength instead of soloing or training with Bishops that hit max damage, and wants to postpone bossing until they can really own the bosses.
I see. Still, I don't see why you would get Bullseye before max Battleship. Wouldn't it bet better to last longer dishing out longer damage with Cannon? Also, am I the only one who thinks a longer lasting Battleship is important for training?
Since nobody has posted it just yet, i'll lay down what i feel is a pure corsair bossing build for maximum bossing power and survivability (WITH KMS updates). This build does not include 1pt wonders, as it's 100% pure bossing power.
At this point you have all the maxed skills necessary for serious boss killing.
149 - 200: These levels will consist of whatever you want, to help train or whatnot. Possibly maxing Wrath of Octo after Rapidfire, for that little bit extra when the ship is in cooldown.
Obviously this build relies on a good training party/bishop. It has no good mobbing until over 150.
Jazter Wrote:I see. Still, I don't see why you would get Bullseye before max Battleship. Wouldn't it bet better to last longer dishing out longer damage with Cannon? Also, am I the only one who thinks a longer lasting Battleship is important for training?
I think that the natural HP gain of Battleship as you level up is enough for training purposes. At 13x the ship should last for 10-15 minutes on average, which is like 90% of the time. At 15x breaking shouldn't even be a concern.
But for bossing:
1 Battleship at 131 (after maxing Cannon) to max Battleship at 134 = 28k HP -> 66k HP. Huge difference and definitely worth it for bossing.
1 Battleship at 158 to max Battleship at 161 = 80k HP -> 122k HP. Still a big difference, but the gain is around 50% rather than 150%. Also, keep in mind that several Corsairs at this level have reported having their ship break only once at Zakum and not at all at Pap. Other bosses: Pianus is laughably slow to attack and can be dodged nearly effortlessly. Two of the CWK bosses don't hit you at all, Hsalf does low damage, and so does Rellik, though he's a peach in general. Pinnable bosses with no ranged attacks shouldn't hit you at all. That pretty much leaves only Horntail, unless I'm forgetting something. I'd just max Bullseye first.
Dusk Wrote:I think that the natural HP gain of Battleship as you level up is enough for training purposes. At 13x the ship should last for 10-15 minutes on average, which is like 90% of the time. At 15x breaking shouldn't even be a concern.
But for bossing:
1 Battleship at 131 (after maxing Cannon) to max Battleship at 134 = 28k HP -> 66k HP. Huge difference and definitely worth it for bossing.
1 Battleship at 158 to max Battleship at 161 = 80k HP -> 122k HP. Still a big difference, but the gain is around 50% rather than 150%. Also, keep in mind that several Corsairs at this level have reported having their ship break only once at Zakum and not at all at Pap. Other bosses: Pianus is laughably slow to attack and can be dodged nearly effortlessly. Two of the CWK bosses don't hit you at all, Hsalf does low damage, and so does Rellik, though he's a peach in general. Pinnable bosses with no ranged attacks shouldn't hit you at all. That pretty much leaves only Horntail, unless I'm forgetting something. I'd just max Bullseye first.
I guess 10-15mins isn't long enough for me. I hate fighting while my ship is broken and I think its more ideal for Temple of Time monsters.
Jazter Wrote:I guess 10-15mins isn't long enough for me. I hate fighting while my ship is broken and I think its more ideal for Temple of Time monsters.
Time temple at 13x? Honestly? I think it's more obvious that at a place like that especially, taking damage shouldn't a concern. Maybe at skeles because the mobs are fierce now, but controlling mobs at TT with splitter is a joke.
Maybe get level 4-5 ship before cannon? It doesn't have to be maxed you know guys, lol.
Takebacker Wrote:Time temple at 13x? Honestly? I think it's more obvious that at a place like that especially, taking damage shouldn't a concern. Maybe at skeles because the mobs are fierce now, but controlling mobs at TT with splitter is a joke.
Maybe get level 4-5 ship before cannon? It doesn't have to be maxed you know guys, lol.
That's a good point lol. I shoulda thought about that a little more. The map with the big armored guys seems to mob up well if you circle around the map and they hit pretty hard, that's why I wanted more HP. I still believe 3 levels of SP is way worth it.
Kigaz Wrote:I do agree with you but at Newties where there are only 3-4 Newts in range it doesn't really work out that well. Maybe I just train a different way idk. My Barrage+DS combo works out very nicely for me and I get 25% an hour on 2x.
I dont plan on maxing Barrage now. I'm finished with Barrage atm at 15. I'm working on DS now
Ah. Well, that seems like some uber experience thar, so I'm not going to talk down about newts x_x
I would just rather be able to train more efficiently at Himes, CGs, Time Temple mobs, etc. at an earlier level. I guess I'm just a mob hoar (well, I'm not maxing shockwave, so I need a decent skill besides blast to replace it too).
Oh, I'm not a bucc yet, by the way, so I'm just pushing out theoretical builds, not the best I guess, but here's mine (prolly someone else's too >.>)
120: 1 SI, 1 DS, 1 Barrage
121: 4 DS
122: 7 DS
123: 8 DS 3 Barrage
124: 11 DS
125: 14 DS
126: 17 DS
127: 18 DS 5 Barrage
128: 21 DS
129: 8 Barrage
130: 10 Barrage 2 SI
Then just proceeding to 11 SI then 20 Barrage then max DStrike, max Barrage, then that would be my starting build. I guess 1 point in time leap early wouldn't hurt, but it'd mean I would have to wait for level 11 SI one more level, even if it's just for bossing with DKs or whatever. Then the 20 Barrage so I can boss more and make use of the SI, then DS for the obvious training purpose. I put extras in barrage when DStrike would be like level 10 or 20 next level, which serves little more purpose than level 7 or 17.
I have no idea how well this would train, but it should be decent for skeles, peak, himes, CGs, Time Temple, anywhere mobby.
Ummm for the training one for corsairs (first one and 2nd one) how in the hell can you or anyone else Justify going Bullseye before Rapid fire... bullseye has 0 help in training from what ive seen and it would make like 100% more sense to me personally to go Rapid fire before bullseye... tell me if im wrong please...(will affect my skill build in the nect few lvls if a good argument is made)
fiftyschmooo Wrote:Ummm for the training one for corsairs (first one and 2nd one) how in the hell can you or anyone else Justify going Bullseye before Rapid fire... bullseye has 0 help in training from what ive seen and it would make like 100% more sense to me personally to go Rapid fire before bullseye... tell me if im wrong please...(will affect my skill build in the nect few lvls if a good argument is made)
Rapid Fire doesn't hardly help in training, either. I rarely ever stay put on the ground when I'm not in ship mode. Both are bossing skills and Bullseye > Rapid Fire.
