Quote:Miss California Carrie Prejean thinks her anti-same sex marriage opinion cost her the Miss USA title on Sunday.
In an interview on Monday's Billy Bush Show Prejean stated: "It did cost me my crown. I wouldn't have had it any other way. I said what I feel. I stated an opinion that was true to myself and that's all I can do."
During the show, celebrity judge Perez Hilton asked Prejean on whether she thought same-sex marriage should be legalized. Prejean replied: "In my country, and in my family, I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman." Prejean later lost to Miss North Carolina Kristen Dalton, who took home the crown.
"It is a very touchy subject and (Hilton) is a homosexual and I see where he was coming from and I see the audience would've wanted me to be more politically correct," she said. "But I was raised in a way that you can never compromise your beliefs and your opinions for anything."
Even though her answer stirred up some controversy, Prejean said she still felt like she won the competition.
"I feel like I'm the winner. I really do," Prejean said, mentioning that she had more than 200 friend requests and 1,000 new messages on Facebook.
I don't get it... they give Cali a really controversial question then toss an easy one to NC - "Should the government use tax money for corporate bailouts?" The latter doesn't have near as much controversy as gay marriage. So Cali responded with her beliefs and likely gets axed for it because she wasn't p/c. The whole thing sucks.
If the whole competition is going to be about "Who can be more p/c", they might as well just forget the whole competition.
The real question is: Why should other people be allowed rule over how other people are allowed to live together in their OWN private life?
If the mayority of the population thinks that a marriage is between a WHITE man and woman, is it ok to forbid marriage between a BLACK man and woman?
I'm so incredible sick of how other people's beliefs get projected on society on how other people should behave in their frickin OWN private life! What gives ANYONE the right about HOW other people should or should not live in their frickin OWN house?
How can ANYONE claim, that two people, who love each other, who they don't even KNOW themselves, should not be allowed to marry? How sick are those people?
If those people are homosexual, so what? Does that annoy them so much that they feel the need to forbid them to get married, just for THEIR own beliefs, at the cost of hurting other people's feelings and lives? :S
And yes, I'm Dutch, I'm glad gay marriage is legal here in my country...
2009-04-20, 09:17 PM (This post was last modified: 2009-04-20, 09:22 PM by ♥Ji.)
Quote:The real question is: Why should other people be allowed rule over how other people are allowed to live together in their OWN private life?
so that means that we are allowed to discriminate in a public setting, a beauty pageant, against people who have different beliefs? this is the topic of the thread, after all. i do not see miss cali "ruling" over anyone. she does not legislate against gay people, she just runs in beauty pageants.
A guy can love a guy, a guy can love a girl, a girl can love a girl, and a girl can love a guy. I don't see why it's so wrong for a girl to love a girl or a guy to love a guy, or make out in public for that matter. A gay couple is like a straight couple, would you like to see two teenagers making out who are a straight or gay couple? What does it matter? This whole thing reminds me of racism really. I just don't understand it, i see gays just like straights. Of course their not the same, but that doesn't mean you treat them THAT differently. You can't say blacks are the same as whites, but you can say they are equal, can't you? Why can't we say the same for gay couples and straight couples? I feel as if I've lost the reason why people don't like gays. If you put two guys next to each other, in fact, what about two TWINS? If one twin was gay and the other straight, would they look any different from each other? Would one be better then the other? These questions pop into my mind whenever i hear about things as silly as this...
Mira Wrote:A guy can love a guy, a guy can love a girl, a girl can love a girl, and a girl can love a guy. I don't see why it's so wrong for a girl to love a girl or a guy to love a guy, or make out in public for that matter. A gay couple is like a straight couple, would you like to see two teenagers making out who are a straight or gay couple? What does it matter? This whole thing reminds me of racism really. I just don't understand it, i see gays just like straights. Of course their not the same, but that doesn't mean you treat them THAT differently. You can't say blacks are the same as whites, but you can say they are equal, can't you? Why can't we say the same for gay couples and straight couples? I feel as if I've lost the reason why people don't like gays. If you put two guys next to each other, in fact, what about two TWINS? If one twin was gay and the other straight, would they look any different from each other? Would one be better then the other? These questions pop into my mind whenever i hear about things as silly as this...
Devil Wrote:The real question is: Why should other people be allowed rule over how other people are allowed to live together in their OWN private life?
If the mayority of the population thinks that a marriage is between a WHITE man and woman, is it ok to forbid marriage between a BLACK man and woman?
I'm so incredible sick of how other people's beliefs get projected on society on how other people should behave in their frickin OWN private life! What gives ANYONE the right about HOW other people should or should not live in their frickin OWN house?
How can ANYONE claim, that two people, who love each other, who they don't even KNOW themselves, should not be allowed to marry? How sick are those people?
Because marriage means someone gets a tax break, they are gonna file taxes jointly and they are gonna get more money than others. Here is the thing: some Christians and other religious think that gay marriage is disgusting and immoral, and they don't want gay people to get a benefit for being immoral, to them a gay person is just as good as a criminal. To them gay people do it because they want to enjoy the lust (they consider lust and sexual feelings unholy UNLESS it is between a man and a woman). They have a reason to believe that, because alot of gay media involves LUST instead of true love where people make actual sacrifices. Lust to them is unholy and is incriminating. They dont want to have their taxes given to those people. I know this because my parents are anti-gay.
In my honest opinion, gay people are just like any other people though, except that they must go a step further to reproduce, (donating sperm/eggs and or cloning). Because of that there are legal complications with things such as owner ship of a adopted child. Also I would not mind having gay people marry because then another kid might have parents to raise them, another person will have someone make important decisions for them when they can not. Also, married couples tend to do better financially and their living standards are higher.
Further more marriage does not necessarily mean love but rather a contract used to gain monetary benefits. These benefits include right choose whether or not a person should be kept on life support, ability to file taxes JOINTLY, ability to raise adopted children. These are all pretty much MONETARY THINGS. If you give any two people ability to marry your giving potentially abilities to make important life decisions. You have to think alot about the rights you are giving to people, and whether or not you want more people to have those rights (not necesarrily because those people love each other). In addition marriage means you can divorce, and ore marriages means more divorces and divorce is where one side gets more money than the other. You are going to give greedy men and women the ability to earn money off marriage. Gay and straight marriage means anyone can marry, and you are gonna give more opportunity for use of legal marriage for ill purposes.
With that said if your religion does not tolerate gay people and you support that religion then you also have the right to say that you dont like gay people. But while you have that right, ideologies will stand in your way. Believe it or not no one said that God had a complete victory over Satan. No one said that Jesus is the final prophet. There are going to be more prophets as we go along and beliefs will change so people that are religious should be open to change.
On a final note, my parents are not legally married but instead married in the eyes of God. And if you think the other person is your soulmate then you are married in your heart and there is no reason why you should not love your soul mate then regardless of your sexual preference. Although those marriage rights and tax benefits and ability to adopt a child WOULD BE NICE.
♥Ji Wrote:so that means that we are allowed to discriminate in a public setting, a beauty pageant, against people who have different beliefs? this is the topic of the thread, after all. i do not see miss cali "ruling" over anyone. she does not legislate against gay people, she just runs in beauty pageants.
What I meant was, would it still be a controversy that she didnt win, because of what she said, if she would have said "In my country, and in my family, I believe that a marriage should be between a WHITE man and a woman."
Devil Wrote:What I meant was, would it still be a controversy that she didnt win, because of what she said, if she would have said "In my country, and in my family, I believe that a marriage should be between a WHITE man and a woman."
sorry can you clarify i don't understand what you said
this is the question of discriminating against others beliefs isn't it?
how can we support non-discrimination against sexual lifestyles while supporting discrimination against beliefs?
2009-04-20, 10:05 PM (This post was last modified: 2009-04-20, 10:14 PM by Cancambo.)
[YOUTUBE]D01t_NpVJpQ[/YOUTUBE]
Lyrics
The concept of fashion is the one to blame
Painting a portrait of conviction less existence
Well it must be difficult
Being so gorgeous
Well it must be difficult
Claiming to be the kings and queens
But it's all
But it's all
But it's all
But it's all
Of nothing
This shall pass
Megalomania
This shall pass
Megalomania
Congratulations
On mutilation
For a life
For a life
For a life
For a life
I'm going to hope for you
I'm going to pray for you
Amongst the reckless and the black
Salvation lies within
I'm going to hope for you
I'm going to pray for you
Amongst the reckless and the black
My time is yours my friend
We all find ourselves
So horribly weak
Oh, God
Here's an offering
Here's an offering
Offering
Offering
Hmmm. . .
Also, I just want to point out this:
Spoiler
Quote:LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Miss North Carolina USA Kristen Dalton was crowned Miss USA 2009 on Sunday, beating out 50 other beauty queens in the live pageant televised from Planet Hollywood Resort & Casino in Las Vegas.
The 22-year-old aspiring motivational speaker and entertainer from Wilmington edged out first runner-up Miss California USA Carrie Prejean, of San Diego, and second runner-up Miss Arizona USA Alicia-Monique Blanco, of Phoenix.
"It feels really natural," Dalton said of her win. "I've worked so be here and this has been my lifelong dream and it's finally here. And whoever knew you could win in a turquoise gown?"
Contestants from all 50 states and the District of Columbia competed in the pageant, aired live on NBC. Contestants were judged by their performance in swimsuit and evening gown modeling contests and their responses to a question asked onstage; unlike the rival Miss America pageant, Miss USA contestants do not perform a talent.
The top 15 contestants worked the stage in white string bikinis designed by pop star Jessica Simpson's swimwear line. Rocker Kevin Rudolf performed his song "Let it Rock," followed by The Veronicas, who performed their single "Untouched" as the top 10 beauties showed off their choice of glittering evening gowns.
Dalton's was a flowing, blue Grecian number that stood out among a series of white gowns.
Her title comes with a year's use of a New York apartment, a public relations team, a two-year scholarship at the New York Film Academy and an undisclosed salary.
She also will go to the Bahamas in August to compete in the Miss Universe pageant, where American beauties haven't been lucky in recent years. Both Miss USA 2008 Crystle Stewart and her predecessor, Rachel Smith, wiped out on stage during the evening gown competition, becoming accidental YouTube stars.
Asked about the tumble during the show on Sunday, Stewart said it was a lesson in bouncing back from defeat.
"I think it was a true test of my character," said the 27-year-old Texan, who worked to raise awareness for breast cancer as she traveled the globe promoting the beauty contest.
If there is a YouTube moment from Sunday's show, it may be Miss California's answer to a question about legalizing same-sex marriage. The tall blonde stumbled some before giving an answer that appeared to please the pageant audience.
"We live in a land where you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage," Prejean said. "And you know what, I think in my country, in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anybody out there, but that's how I was raised."
Some in the audience cheered, others booed. The answer sparked a shouting match in the lobby after the show.
"It's ugly," said Scott Ihrig, a gay man, who attended the pageant with his partner. "I think it's ridiculous that she got first runner-up. That is not the value of 95 percent of the people in this audience. Look around this audience and tell me how many gay men there are."
Charmaine Koonce, the mother of Miss New Mexico USA Bianca Carla, argued back.
"In the Bible it says marriage is between Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve!"
The pageant had enjoyed a scandal-free year until earlier this month, when Miss Universe 2008 Dayana Mendoza was skewered for a blog posting from a trip to Guantanamo Bay. The entry described having "aloooot of fun" at a base that houses the notorious military prison; it was later deleted from the pageant's Web site.
The contest, which is owned by NBC and reality TV mogul Donald Trump, was hosted by "Access Hollywood" co-anchor Billy Bush and Nadine Velazquez of the NBC sitcom "My Name is Earl." This year's judges included "Saturday Night Live" cast member Kenan Thompson, "Dancing with the Stars" winner Kelly Monaco and gossip blogger Perez Hilton.
Miss Wyoming USA Cynthia Pate, of Casper, Wyo., was voted Miss Congeniality by her fellow contestants. Jessi Pierson, of Milton, W.Va., was voted Miss Photogenic through an online contest on the Miss Universe Web site.
Organizers said Sunday's show kicks off "Green Week" at NBC. As part of the environmental awareness campaign, the Miss USA crown was designed by a jeweler that specializes in conflict-free and eco-friendly jewels. The crown from Diamond Nexus Labs of Franklin, Wis., is worth $202,000.
Devil Wrote:The real question is: Why should other people be allowed rule over how other people are allowed to live together in their OWN private life?
If the mayority of the population thinks that a marriage is between a WHITE man and woman, is it ok to forbid marriage between a BLACK man and woman?
I'm so incredible sick of how other people's beliefs get projected on society on how other people should behave in their frickin OWN private life! What gives ANYONE the right about HOW other people should or should not live in their frickin OWN house?
How can ANYONE claim, that two people, who love each other, who they don't even KNOW themselves, should not be allowed to marry? How sick are those people?
If those people are homosexual, so what? Does that annoy them so much that they feel the need to forbid them to get married, just for THEIR own beliefs, at the cost of hurting other people's feelings and lives? :S
And yes, I'm Dutch, I'm glad gay marriage is legal here in my country...
I think you're missing the point here. Forgive me if Im wrong, but what you're trying to say here is that she answered the way she did to "appease the most people". It just looks like you wanted to get a rant about your opinion on gay marriages across here or something.
It's not as if she just went out and went F*CK HOMOSEXUALS. THEY'RE WRONG AND SHOULD ALL BURN IN HELL or went "I hate homosexuals and find them disgusting so no, it should not be legalized". Really, there's NOTHING in "In my country, and in my family, I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman." that is remotely what you're ranting about. This isnt about whether or not homosexuality should be allowed or what the majority of society thinks about homosexuality, this is about her perspective on homosexuality. She voiced her honest opinion and according to her lost because of it.
Devil Wrote:What I meant was, would it still be a controversy that she didnt win, because of what she said, if she would have said "In my country, and in my family, I believe that a marriage should be between a WHITE man and a woman."
Like Ji, I have no idea what you're trying to say. The question had nothing to do with race; it was about gender/marriage. She answered on that. Talking about the color would be going off on an uneccessary tangent. If she said that, then it'd be as if she went the extra mile to be racist. However, that's not the case here. She got asked a question and answered it, simple as that.
Personally, I respsect her for the answer she gave. She could've hid her morals and just gone with the politically correct answer, she could've voiced her opinion in a discriminatory manner. Instead, she just answered it straight up in a manner that no one would get offended by (or hopefully anyways) and an answer she could live with herself for answering. I dont watch beauty pagents, I dont know how it works, but I would say that they should be graded or judged on how well they articulate their answer in accordance to the question, not on what she believes.
People are up in arms when people are against same sex marriages and whatnot talking about freedom of choice. Well, here is someone expressing their freedom of choice, they lost. If it was REALLY about freedom of choice and opinion, then just as it should be okay to be for same sex marriage, it should be okay to be against it. I dont see what the problem is here.
♥Ji Wrote:sorry can you clarify i don't understand what you said
this is the question of discriminating against others beliefs isn't it?
how can we support non-discrimination against sexual lifestyles while supporting discrimination against beliefs?
No one discriminates her beliefs, they are just disapproving her opinion over how she wants other people to live their lives.
Also, she doesn't even answer the question itself. She only states her opinion how she wants to live her own life, while the question was about other people's lives.
And if her answer want meant as, all people should live according to my beliefs, even if they have an other belief, that means she's an egoistic religiuous fundamentalist, and not suited to be Miss California.
Devil Wrote:No one discriminates her beliefs, they are just disapproving her opinion over how she wants other people to live their lives.
Also, she doesn't even answer the question itself. She only states her opinion how she wants to live her own life, while the question was about other people's lives.
And if her answer want meant as, all people should live according to my beliefs, even if they have an other belief, that means she's an egoistic religiuous fundamentalist, and not suited to be Miss California.
WOOHOO! MISS CALIFORNIA!
Anyways, watch Hilton's response. His "good" answer doesn't even answer the question, either. She, however, does answer the question. She is saying that other states shouldn't follow suit, in her own opionion.
the topic is the fact that she lost the crown. she says this and perez hilton also says that she lost the crown due to this question. what do you mean by no one discriminates her beliefs?
Quote:And if her answer want meant as, all people should live according to my beliefs, even if they have an other belief, that means she's an egoistic religiuous fundamentalist, and not suited to be Miss California.
emphasis my own regarding discrimination/prejudice/stereotypes etc
would not wish gay people to be labelled and prejudiced against in this fashion either
Fiel Wrote:So Cali responded with her beliefs and likely gets axed for it because she wasn't p/c. The whole thing sucks.
It's unfortunate but that's just human nature at work. People like being agreed with, and when her beliefs conflict with the popular one, of course she's going to get axed. This happens everywhere, not only at beauty pageants.
If the beauty pageant wants to act that way though, then the pageant itself is not worth anything. It's not valid, it's not testing what it's supposed to. It's not a true test of beauty, only a test of conformity.
Mira Wrote:A guy can love a guy, a guy can love a girl, a girl can love a girl, and a girl can love a guy. I don't see why it's so wrong for a girl to love a girl or a guy to love a guy, or make out in public for that matter. A gay couple is like a straight couple, would you like to see two teenagers making out who are a straight or gay couple? What does it matter? This whole thing reminds me of racism really. I just don't understand it, i see gays just like straights. Of course their not the same, but that doesn't mean you treat them THAT differently. You can't say blacks are the same as whites, but you can say they are equal, can't you? Why can't we say the same for gay couples and straight couples? I feel as if I've lost the reason why people don't like gays. If you put two guys next to each other, in fact, what about two TWINS? If one twin was gay and the other straight, would they look any different from each other? Would one be better then the other? These questions pop into my mind whenever i hear about things as silly as this...
I just felt like saying this, but that entire rant-like paragraph sounded a lot like "All people are equal, but some are more equal than others", especially the part I bolded.
ndynslvr Wrote:On a final note, my parents are not legally married but instead married in the eyes of God. And if you think the other person is your soulmate then you are married in your heart and there is no reason why you should not love your soul mate then regardless of your sexual preference. Although those marriage rights and tax benefits and ability to adopt a child WOULD BE NICE.
That's just amazing.
I've questioned marriage before, and I find it bs. In my eyes, marriage is just a formal act of announcing that two people are going to join hands forever. It's just a religious ceremony, nothing more. I find it funny how the US tolerates freedom of religion, yet imposes marriage on people. Also, what of the people who don't believe in a religion? Why should they be forced to go through a religious process?
Animals don't marry, yet some animals abide by pretty much the same rules, that is, once they reproduce with each other, they don't go off to find another spouse. Somehow, the requirement of marriage is so prevalent that it may almost seem as if humans can't seem to control their behaviors as well as animals can. And humans are supposed to be the most "evolved" animals walking the earth! <~ LoL.
That said, I'm glad that you mention that your parents aren't married. I haven't actually heard of anyone who has done this.
TehMatt Wrote:Also, I just want to point out this:
Spoiler
Quote:LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Miss North Carolina USA Kristen Dalton was crowned Miss USA 2009 on Sunday, beating out 50 other beauty queens in the live pageant televised from Planet Hollywood Resort & Casino in Las Vegas.
The 22-year-old aspiring motivational speaker and entertainer from Wilmington edged out first runner-up Miss California USA Carrie Prejean, of San Diego, and second runner-up Miss Arizona USA Alicia-Monique Blanco, of Phoenix.
"It feels really natural," Dalton said of her win. "I've worked so be here and this has been my lifelong dream and it's finally here. And whoever knew you could win in a turquoise gown?"
Contestants from all 50 states and the District of Columbia competed in the pageant, aired live on NBC. Contestants were judged by their performance in swimsuit and evening gown modeling contests and their responses to a question asked onstage; unlike the rival Miss America pageant, Miss USA contestants do not perform a talent.
The top 15 contestants worked the stage in white string bikinis designed by pop star Jessica Simpson's swimwear line. Rocker Kevin Rudolf performed his song "Let it Rock," followed by The Veronicas, who performed their single "Untouched" as the top 10 beauties showed off their choice of glittering evening gowns.
Dalton's was a flowing, blue Grecian number that stood out among a series of white gowns.
Her title comes with a year's use of a New York apartment, a public relations team, a two-year scholarship at the New York Film Academy and an undisclosed salary.
She also will go to the Bahamas in August to compete in the Miss Universe pageant, where American beauties haven't been lucky in recent years. Both Miss USA 2008 Crystle Stewart and her predecessor, Rachel Smith, wiped out on stage during the evening gown competition, becoming accidental YouTube stars.
Asked about the tumble during the show on Sunday, Stewart said it was a lesson in bouncing back from defeat.
"I think it was a true test of my character," said the 27-year-old Texan, who worked to raise awareness for breast cancer as she traveled the globe promoting the beauty contest.
If there is a YouTube moment from Sunday's show, it may be Miss California's answer to a question about legalizing same-sex marriage. The tall blonde stumbled some before giving an answer that appeared to please the pageant audience.
"We live in a land where you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage," Prejean said. "And you know what, I think in my country, in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anybody out there, but that's how I was raised."
Some in the audience cheered, others booed. The answer sparked a shouting match in the lobby after the show.
"It's ugly," said Scott Ihrig, a gay man, who attended the pageant with his partner. "I think it's ridiculous that she got first runner-up. That is not the value of 95 percent of the people in this audience. Look around this audience and tell me how many gay men there are."
Charmaine Koonce, the mother of Miss New Mexico USA Bianca Carla, argued back.
"In the Bible it says marriage is between Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve!"
The pageant had enjoyed a scandal-free year until earlier this month, when Miss Universe 2008 Dayana Mendoza was skewered for a blog posting from a trip to Guantanamo Bay. The entry described having "aloooot of fun" at a base that houses the notorious military prison; it was later deleted from the pageant's Web site.
The contest, which is owned by NBC and reality TV mogul Donald Trump, was hosted by "Access Hollywood" co-anchor Billy Bush and Nadine Velazquez of the NBC sitcom "My Name is Earl." This year's judges included "Saturday Night Live" cast member Kenan Thompson, "Dancing with the Stars" winner Kelly Monaco and gossip blogger Perez Hilton.
Miss Wyoming USA Cynthia Pate, of Casper, Wyo., was voted Miss Congeniality by her fellow contestants. Jessi Pierson, of Milton, W.Va., was voted Miss Photogenic through an online contest on the Miss Universe Web site.
Organizers said Sunday's show kicks off "Green Week" at NBC. As part of the environmental awareness campaign, the Miss USA crown was designed by a jeweler that specializes in conflict-free and eco-friendly jewels. The crown from Diamond Nexus Labs of Franklin, Wis., is worth $202,000.
2009-04-20, 11:32 PM (This post was last modified: 2009-04-20, 11:35 PM by MasPan.)
Harrisonized Wrote:If the beauty pageant wants to act that way though, then the pageant itself is not worth anything. It's not valid, it's not testing what it's supposed to. It's not a true test of beauty, only a test of conformity.
What is beauty but how well someone conforms to society's ideals?
To me, beauty cannot exist in someone who has not found their own beliefs, and instead lives "how she was raised." Someone that cannot think or feel for themself what is right and what is wrong is ugly in the truest sense of the word. I'm glad she got canned, not for her beliefs, but for the fact that they were NOT her own. If she simply believes what she does because that's how she was raised, then she is no better than the child of a zealot, a racist, an abusive partner - she never examines things beyond "this is what my parent(s) did, so this is right."
Beauty to me is the combination of having an idealistic appearance and having the intelligence to think for one's self (originality). However, since the dictionary is giving me:
Dictionary Definition Wrote:The quality that gives pleasure to the mind or senses and is associated with such properties as harmony of form or color, excellence of artistry, truthfulness, and originality.
let's just go with the dictionary definition.
You hit the part on originality, but had she said "I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman", imagine what kind of uproar she would have caused. As you put it, beauty is how well someone conforms to society's ideals. She said the "In my country and family" part to appease the crowd, as evidenced by her saying "But I was raised in a way that you can never compromise your beliefs and your opinions for anything."
That means that she probably didn't state her true beliefs, probably just the one that's conforming to the ideals, hence hitting your definition of beauty.
I do agree that if she can't think on her own, she's not worthy of winning, but what IS an original belief? I'm certain that most of your beliefs (if not all of them) have already been thought up by some other person that you didn't know about.
