CKPQ Bossing Strategy

To combat these bosses, strategies must be formed.


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Go tell Nexon that you want Shoes for Magic Attack Scrolls so that you don't get completely shafted by Nexon's decision to make the new Pendants 8~12 atk.


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Statistics

http://crimsonwood.webs.com/bosses.htm

 4 bosses

Margana
Aggressive Boss
Immune to Holy, Strong to Fire, Ice, and Lightning
level 130
HP: 200000000
MP: 50000000
W.Att: 620
M.Att: 500
W.Def: 800
M.Def: 1000
Speed: -30
Accuracy: 280
Avoidability: 42
KB: 20000
Exp: 4300000
Zombify
500,000 HP recovery (not sure?)
Summon Dark Menhir
Poison Cloud

Red Nirg
Aggressive Boss
Neutral to All
level 130
HP: 255000000
MP: 10000000
W.Att: 630
M.Att: 480
W.Def: 1000
M.Def: 850
Speed: -20
Accuracy: 260
Avoidability: 39
KB: 80000
Exp: 4550000
Attack Up +200 (AoE buff, affects nearby monsters)
can stun
Super KB
Can summon 10 Stormbreakers, 10 Windraiders, 10 Nightshadows, or 10 Firebrands
When defeated, Revives into Scarlet Phoenix AND Azure Ocelot

Rellik
Aggressive Boss
Fire weak, Holy immune
level 130
HP: 231000000
MP: 20000000
W.Att: 600
M.Att: 490
W.Def: 800
M.Def: 900
Speed: 0
Accuracy: 300
Avoidability: 45
KB: 15000
Exp: 4450000
1/1 and Poison (simultaneously)
Super KB
Stun
Seal
Summon black bird

Hsalf
Aggressive Boss
Ice weak, Holy immune
level 130
HP: 233000000
MP: 20000000
W.Att: 610
M.Att: 490
W.Def: 8000
M.Def: 900
Speed: 95
Accuracy: 230
Avoidability: 55
KB: 15000
Exp: 4510000
Haste (Speed +50)
(This one's pretty much physical immune)

First, notice the damage that these monsters do. Not too bad in my opinion. Everyone should be able to survive their damages.

Looking at skills, while looking them individually, they may seem like an undefeatable combination. However, let's compile all of their skills into a block:

Status conditions- Zombify, Stun, Seal
Skills- Summon (we'll count all summons as one), Haste (Speed +50), HP recovery, Atk up (+200)
Attack types- Poison cloud, 1/1 with poison, Super KB

Doesn't look like much.
1) What I noticed was that the four are missing dispel. This means that Holy Shield will be pinnacle to protecting yourself against the 1/1 poison. Dispel will be necessary here to protect against seal. Since Holy Shield has a cooldown, I recommend Time Leap just to get more Holy Shield time.
2) The Super KB and stun looks like a problem that can be alleviated by touching spawn or body. Since they do not have dispel, this will be safe for the mage and warrior classes.
3) Haste can be alleviated with slow. Slowing down mobs means that they will only move 10 speed faster, which isn't much when you think about it. Also, it's interesting to note that Rellik is an immobile boss, so whether the not the haste will cause it to start moving is still unknown.


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Map


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Pre-Strategy

 Speculation the night before based on known data.

"Nothing beats live experience"

Although nothing beats live experience, we can speculate about how to complete the PQ so that when live experience hits, we will not fail as many times.

~

Looking through each one, it would appear that this boss stage will require people to split up. Since the damage that the monsters deal are not extreme, other than the 1/1 poison and zombify, death should be nothing to worry about. People trying to avoid super KB can just walk into the monster and take a hit.

~

An important aspect of this PQ I believe, is placement. This map can be divided in two. Hsalf should be kept on the opposite side of Margana because of Margana's annoying effects.

Thus, placement in this map should be such:
[wall] Margana | Hsalf | Red Nirg + Rellik [wall]

~

One of the interesting things about this PQ is the physical immunity of the boss Hsalf. He must be killed by mages, and since mages naturally kill slower than nonmages, I highly recommend mages start on this boss immediately so that they finish this boss around the same time that the other people finish the other bosses. Mages should beware that this boss is extremely fast, and casts a skill that makes them even faster. A person with maxed slow is definitely needed in this portion of the battle.

Since Hsalf is extremely fast, and that quickness is intensified by the haste it may cast, it would be ideal to keep it in the middle of two mage parties. If anyone has ever duo'd Bigfoot with another mage, they'd know that keeping one mage on one side and the other mage on the other side would cause the Bigfoot to stay between them.

~

Red Nirg is the most useless out of the set, though it has stun and +200 attack, this can easily be controlled by setting it near Rellik using the melee classes. Melee can just use the rush to evade Rellik's 1/1 poison, or just hug its body and deal with the touch damage to avoid the 1/1 poison and stun. Thus, Rellik and Red Nirg can be taken out at the same time, both by Melee classes, near the right of the map. Both Rellik and Red Nirg should be rushed to the right wall, which would be opposite of the Margana, which means that it would be far enough away from Margana that zombify won't be affected. Thus Bishops can just heal the Melee while they attack standing on top of Red Nirg and Rellik, getting both at the same time.

Stance will take care of the problem with super KB. However, Bishops may have problems with the Super KB and may need to teleport into Rellik or Red Nirg's body in order to save themselves from flying off into Hsalf, which should be in the middle of the map.

~

We focus our attention on Margana, the most vital of this stage. Since she does the most lethal skill, zombify, she should be considered a priority. The bishops will be unable to heal their parties with this in place. That being said, since Bishops really can't contribute on the portion of the map that Margana is on until Margana is downed. For this portion of the fight, the parties will consist of a Bishop, a DK, and four ranged. Since poison cloud will likely surround Margana's body and Margana, it would be wise only to use ranged attackers (hence the recommendation up above only to have NLs and BMs), as Melee in the poison will suffer constant damage. As a bonus for ranged, Margana does not have the Super KB.

The 500K hp recovery can also be a problem if it heals other bosses as well. Hopefully it does not, but if it does, 500K HP for one boss only shouldn't be that bad of a problem for a team of ranged classes. Should Menhir's be summoned, perhaps a Marksman may be helpful as the Pierce's effect could be amplified (as it passes across a Menhir). Also, NLs and BM should still try keeping it pinned using Pulse and Avenger. Menhirs stay on the map only for 30 seconds.

If Margana have reflect, it could be problematic to the ranged classes as they do the highest damage but have the lowest HP. Margana's reflect animation should be noted and when such occurs, they should jump to Rellik and Red Nirg, which should be the closest to Margana, and assist there until the reflect is over. A bowman should stay behind and use puppet to keep Margana from moving to the center of the map where Red Nirg and Rellik are.

~

Judging from HP, the ranged classes should finish killing Margana first. They will then move over to assist the Melee's attack on Rellik. Red Nirg should be rushed to the left of the map (where Margana was) to separate the three bosses, and the ranged classes should focus on killing Rellik (in the center of the map) as it has more importance. Once Rellik is killed, the Red Nirg should be downed as well. The Scarlet Phoenix and Azure Ocelot should be a breeze.

~

I'm uncertain to when the mages will finish, before or after the other bosses have been defeated, but if mages finish, they should refer to the immunities of the monster in order to determine which they should attack. FP should move to Margana (would be unlikely though as they'll almost definitely finish first). If Margana has been downed, move to Rellik. Bishops in the magician parties should move to Red Nirg. IL can move to either Rellik or Red Nirg but cannot move to Margana.

 Party Speculations

Pre-Parties

 Merely Speculation

This will have a 20 person limit... this means not all parties will have six people

Party 1: Ranged Party for Margana
1) Bishop
2) DK
3) BM
4-6) Three ranged

Party Two: Melee Party for Rellik and Red Nirg
1) Bishop
2-6) Any Melee. DK only necessary when there are people wth lower HP than normal

Parties 3 and 4: Mage Parties for Hsalf
1) Bishop
2-4) Any nonbishop Mage class.

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Strategies formed after PQing
Arranged in the order in which they were formed.


Strong ranged/Weak melee
[spoiler=Dusk's Strategy]

This is the best strategy I can come up with, and not too difficult to follow:

Requires 3 Parties.

Party 1: Main attacking party. This is the party that should have the strongest attackers and the apples. They will be responsible for the most of the killing.
*DrK (leader)
-Archer
-4 strong attackers, preferably NLs/Corsairs, but any non-warrior that can output a lot of damage will do.

Party 2: Warrior party. This party will keep Red Nirg and Rellik pinned to the left. They will not want to kill Red Nirg past 50% until everyone else is done, so no attackers other than Warriors in this party. This party should not focus on doing damage.
*at least 2 of any 4th job Warrior
-Bishop
-any low levels

Party 3: Miscellaneous party. Mages, attackers not in the main party go here. Anyone that can hit Hsalf will do.
*anyone with enough accuracy, preferably mages

Margana is clearly the best boss to start on. Zombify prevents Bishops from healing, heals herself for 500k, and makes the fight annoying in general. She is also the only boss on the top of the map, and has low hp, which makes her very easy to deal with. Party 1 should begin on her right away with Apples and finish her off ASAP. Bishops should NOT heal until she is dead.

While Margana is being dealt with, Party 2 should rush Red Nirg and Rellik left. They can be pinned in a corner easily. Red Nirg makes the fight much more dangerous after he is at half HP, so don't focus on doing damage to him. This is mostly to tank some damage while the other two bosses are killed.

Party 3 should begin on Hsalf, pinning him to the right. He isn't difficult, he only has high avoid and massive weapon defense.

After Margana is dead, someone should announce the fact so Bishops know that it's safe to heal. Party 1 joins Party 3 to kill Hsalf.

After Hsalf is dead, the DrK in the attacking party should move to seperate Rellik and Red Nirg. Rellik should be rushed right, while the Warrior party continues to pin Red Nirg. Parties 1 and 3 can deal with Rellik quickly.

Finally, Red Nirg can be killed. He is the most dangerous, as he can deal the highest damage, buff the other bosses, and summon. However, with the other three bosses dead, he should be nothing but a nerfed Zakum.

[/spoiler][spoiler=Jormungandr's Strategy]

[COLOR="Teal"]We tried doing it this way and it seemed to be really helpful.
Basically same thing at beginning:

So first off Warriors rush the 3 bosses to the left while ranged takes out Margana on top.

At about 5-10% hp for Margana, warriors rush Hsalf over to the right, where the ranged party will kill after Margana is down.

Now once Hsalf is dead, here comes the fun part:

Instead of the usual ways, isolate the Red Nirg from Rellik, the warriros should rush Red Nirg to the right and pin him there.

Now the ranged all go after rellik. While his sea,stun, 1/1 poison is a pain, the ranged party can stand on the low left platform past the statues, since they are able to pin it in the corner there, and relllik's 1/1 poison does not reach the upper platforms. It passes right below the lowest platform on the left.

Once rellik is done, the warriors should be done with Red Nirg, if not, the ranged stay up top and all the people who can survive finish off Red Nirg and his spawns.


Red Nirg is still reserved for last since his buff hits 6k, which our ranged can not survive.
Taking out rellik in that corner earlier on prevented all our deaths involving him, and it seemed to go faster that way.

If the warrior party isn't as strong, I guess it would be easier if the Red Nirg was taken out first, but the range party is still in danger from his buff.
[/COLOR]

[/spoiler]

Weak Ranged/Strong Melee
[spoiler=Devil's Strategy]

Best strategy is to kill the Mage Grandmaster on top first, while keeping the other Grandmasters (who are at the bottom) far away to the right.

Also, I think Shadowers / Buccanneers / Hero's / DkK's (last two only when able to hit them 100%) with Apples do best damage here. Especially with the upcoming skill upgrades (Bstep speedup for Shadowers / Dragon Strike speedup for Buccanneers):

- Shadower: 1x 3hit Bstep + 3x 3 hit BoT = 4890% dmg per 2310ms = 127.013% DPM
- Shadower (with upgrade): 2x 3hit Bstep + 2x 3 hit BoT = 7260% dmg per 2580ms = 168.837% DPM
- Hero: 3x 3hit Brandish = 8892% dmg per 2250ms = 237.120% DPM
- DkK = 2x 3hit Crusher = 3060% dmg per 1980ms = 92.727% DPM (with Berserk...)
- Buccanneers with 3x hit Dragon Strike / Shockwave = 2x 850 x 3 = 5100% dmg per 2160ms (is this the correct delay, or is this after the upcoming skill upgrades?) = 141.666% DPM

Hero's will do awesome damage here, however they WILL need some extreme HIGH accuracy to hit 100%.

I would say:
- Top Mage Grandmaster = 1 Ranged class party
- Bottom Grandmaster = 3 Melee Party's: Hero's, Shadowers, Bucs, Dkk's + Bishops for Healing them (No Berserk that way though...)

Ranged Party's should not attempt to attack bottom classes, because of the MASS: Stun, Steal, 1/1 attacks...

Bottom attack scenario should be like this in my vid, because you avoid the stuns that way & Bishops healing the attack party's from a distance:

 Crimsonwood Grandmasters Battle - GMS Devil (YouTube Video

[YOUTUBE]paX03HDIG7s&ap=%2526fmt%3D22[/YOUTUBE]

Note: I didn't use Bstep + BoT combo in this vid / nor any attack potions / nor any attempt to do some good attacks with using Chakra (FRAPS HD = lollag... ). But with some effort, this attack style is probably best!

[/spoiler]

Mediocre Ranged/Mediocre Melee

 My Strategy

1) When the fight starts, only physical classes kill the black guardians. Don't even bother wasting your pots mages, because all damages are 1.

2) After black guardians are killed, the group is divided into three.

3) The stronger party takes Margana. One rusher is needed among a group of ranged to take down Margana. A bishop is needed here for Rezzing as well as for dispelling.

4) One warrior rushes Hsalf to the right of the map and holds it. The mages (nonbishops) kill here with the rushing warrior, as anywhere else and they may be greatly hindered by stunning or sealing, or just plain high damage.

5) The people not fighting Margana or Hsalf rush Rellik and Red Nirg to the left of the map and kill them there.

6) When Margana is killed, the ranged go fight Hsalf, which should now be pretty easy with the aid of heal, as Hsalf has no special skills and heal would be permitted.

7) After Hsalf is downed, Red Nirg is rushed to the right. Rellik stays on the left because rushing Rellik is a pain as Rellik stuns a lot. Mages continue to fight Red Nirg, with the ranged classes and some of the melee.

8) One person needs to stay behind and rush Rellik. After Hsalf is downed, everyone goes in on Rellik. Mages and Melee are advised to take touch damage from Rellik as it only does 3K touch damage and touching it would save you from 1/1 poison and it's annoying stun.

[spoiler=Kevin's Strategy]

I think the group I go with in Bello has our bossing strategy down, and I think it works pretty well. The strategy is based on the idea that your ranged attackers will want to fight one boss at a time, while your melee attackers want to attack multiple bosses at once.

• Everyone kills the pre-boss monsters, then return to the center of the room. Ranged stay on top platform.
  
• When the grandmasters are summoned, ranged characters pin Margana. Melee classes corner the remaining 3 grandmasters.
  
• Once Margana dies, 1 warrior grabs Hsalf and rushes him to the other side. Ranged take care of him.
  
• After Hsalf dies, melee party separate Nirg and Rellik.
  
• With the aid of some melee characters, ranged kill Nirg and its reincarnations.
  
• After Nirg dies, everyone gang up on Rellik to complete the fight.
  

With this strategy, the ranged party doesn't even need HB (Margana and Hsalf don't do a lot of damage and just stay out of Nirg's range). Important: Bishops should remember to dispel Nirg's attack up buff. Ranged characters with apple get the full use out of it (since Rellik, who is a pain for ranged characters, is put off until there's no choice). And of course, Nirg doesn't get to buff up any of his pals. (Unless the melee is strong and can take off more than 50% of Nirg before ranged finishes off Margana and Hsalf, but that hasn't been the case with our runs. Don't think it'll make any difference.)

[/spoiler][spoiler=Kopee's Strategy]

The easiest way to kill the bosses is to let a buccaneer pin them back really. That is what I've done for 4 boss fights alone and it has been successful.

Corkscrew punch has a huge invincibility frame advantage, moreso than a warriors rush I believe so I NEVER get hit. The only time I do is when I'm recasting booster+speed infusion macro. I think I usually use around 20 ginger ales during the boss? Haha that's how good buccs are at it.

Anyways I just rush all 3 to the right by myself (No HB even lol) and 19 other people go and kill morgana, When shes dead someone tells me and I try to rush Rellik left while keeping red nirg and hsalf on the right.

Then one of my warrior friends comes and gets rellik and rushes him to the left while I keep pinning the other 2. It gets considerably easier now that I dont have to worry about Seal and 1/1 poison attacks when I rebuff myself.

The best part is after rellik is dead and The party is fighting Hsalf on the left I can use the platforms and sit up there without red nirg even touching me XD

 Screenshot

The only thing you have to remember is that DON'T let anyone come to the right where you are because Red Nirg will auto aggro and follow that person back left to the party killing rellik and that can cause some deaths.

ALSO, there are 3 platform hieghts that you can see. The middle one being thie highest, left one being 2nd highest and 3rd one on the right being lowest. He can still hit you on the right of the 3 plats! So Don't sit there. I choose the right edge of the middle plat because its the farthest away from the party without him hitting me or losing his auto aggro.

Hope you like my idea

[/spoiler]


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Pictures!
Don't we all love pictures?

http://www.southperry.net/forums/showpos...tcount=715
[spoiler=From the Boss Battle's thread][spoiler=Battle Begins. I'm partyless so I didn't know where to start, so I tried Margana][/spoiler]

 Margana sucked hard. She stuns a lot and it got boring, so I joined in with the Hsalf battle.

 Margana downed.

 I moved over to see Red Nirg and Rellik. I see Red Nirg downt here and instinctively I use explosion, since Meteo was forbidden. Turned out that I could easily snipe Red Nirg down there.

[spoiler=Then Rellik moved in, and the stunning was horrific. Not only that, it's 1/1 poison came sporadically.][/spoiler]

 So then I move back to Hsalf. This is the EXP I got from Hsalf. Quite a bit more than I expected being a partyless mage.

 I moved to the other side to join the rest of the fight... and died.

 Then Kevin died and we both got rezzed.

[spoiler=Red Nirg's EXP...][/spoiler]

 EXP from the two minibosses

[spoiler=I tried joining the fight against Rellik. By now many have died. After a while, I finally succeeded in getting to Rellik's body without dying or getting stunned.][/spoiler][spoiler=When Rellik was about to die, Kevin told me to move away from body (of course to make sure I wasn't looting... like I would), but I moved away and got stunned and couldn't see it dying. f4][/spoiler][/spoiler]

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Finally, I have the experience to tell people about this topic. It's interesting to compare speculations with the actual fight. As Jackk mentioned:

"Nothing beats live experience"

I completely agree with this statement.

Anyways, above are the strategies for you to reference. The ideal strategy depends on your party. Thanks for reading and good luck on your PQ.

Archer controls three on one side of the room with puppet (if I remember, the map on which you fight the grandmasters have platforms). Then, taking them on one-by-one, red nirg -> rellik -> margana -> hsalf.

Though this is pretty pointless to discuss before anyone's actually experienced the fight, because we don't know the terrain, ranges of the skills, how frequently each skill is used, etc. =/

Simple terms. Try and get
Margana
Red Nirg down first. I'd say Hero/DrK/Pirate/Nl/BM and such should worry about this. try to get them pinned togeather. with Rush since noone will be KBing them...

While thats going on.


Rellik
hsalh
Should be getting attacked by Mages/Pallys of there respected element. while most can't KB the Pally should be able to keep them rushed/KBed.

Trying to keep them split on seprate sides of the room might help.

I would of thought each boss was to be given it's own room. Could you guys point me towards the evidence against that?

I would of thought each boss was to be given it's own room. Could you guys point me towards the evidence against that?

In a interview with Nexon, they said "Crimsonwood Keep pq. Have anyone wondered what it would be like to fight 4 bosses at once. Well you soon will be able to find out."

That and Nexon has hinted many times at 4 bosses at once.

"Nothing beats live experience"

No matter how well the plans may seem on paper, we wont know till we face the real thing in game. With that in mind, I agree with those above that say that strategies shouldnt be formed till we REALLY know what we're dealing with.

That being said, the archer puppeting away so that the hardest boss is left sounds like a good idea, though again, we dont know if that's plausible yet till we actually face it.

Sigh...I knew Prose was crazy when he said he enjoyed putting HH and BF in the same map surrounded by Elder Wraiths >> And I thought that was hard.

lerooooooooooooooooy jenkinssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

if you dont know what is it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkCNJRfSZBU)

on topic:


too soon to start making strategy, but i hope they are not on same map, cause zombify+ 1/1 + poison = dead dont matter who you are 0_o

b> amoria baskets... i guess i am screwed on thief boss =[

Sigh...I knew Prose was crazy when he said he enjoyed putting HH and BF in the same map surrounded by Elder Wraiths >> And I thought that was hard.

lol when will people realize NxProse's idea of "fun" is sadomasochism.

I'm liking the idea of Red Nirg and Margana at once as a hero. Neither can kill me very easily even without hyperbody. I'm sure I'm faster than them, so I can keep them somewhat contained in one area and brandish away. I don't need a bishop since I've learned what a potion is and am deathly afraid of being healed during zombify. The bishops would do better with the mages to keep them from dying from Rellik's lolwtfpoisonnuke. I doubt Hsalf can easily be kept under control by mages, though. Even with slow.

Half's got to be taken care by mages just because of it's high w-def. Though NL's could just suck it up and apple throughout too.

Yeah, that poison nuke is really going to screw up mages, and Zombify will screw up Bishops. It's probably going to be best to kill Rellik first, to avoid casualties, and have someone keep Margana KB'd so she doesn't mess up the squad with Zombify.

Another problem is trying to keep Hsalf busy. Slow only takes off 40 speed, so Hsalf will still get a speed boost. Possibly the range/mage characters will have to fight this one to keep him away.

Red Nirg isn't really a problem in my eyes.

Half's got to be taken care by mages just because of it's high w-def. Though NL's could just suck it up and apple throughout too.

You've got a point. I'd prefer a max speed paladong for rush though. Point being it needs something besides mages to keep'm tame.

(It's interesting to note that the Rellik is immobile)

Untrue. Speed 0 does not mean immobile. Speed 0, combined with a walking animation (which Rellik has) means the same speed as a character with no speed boosts. A monster is only immobile if it has no moving or flying animation.

Also, note that Nirg's +200 attack buff means that everything will be doing up to 6k damage at frequent intervals until he is taken care of. If anyone in the party has less than that much HP, be sure to bring HB or, if that's unavailable, constantly dispel the buff and hope that particular person is incredibly lucky.

Also, note that Nirg's +200 attack buff means that everything will be doing up to 6k damage at frequent intervals until he is taken care of. If anyone in the party has less than that much HP, be sure to bring HB or, if that's unavailable, constantly dispel the buff and hope that particular person is incredibly lucky.

Where does the dispel come from? If it came from somewhere, I was unaware of it as nobody posted it.
That means I'll have to change almost everything. >_>

Where does the dispel come from? If it came from somewhere, I was unaware of it as nobody posted it.
That means I'll have to change almost everything. >_>

No, I meant Priest's Dispel, to get rid of the 200 attack buff. Or, Power Crash, but who has Power Crash? >_>

Where does the dispel come from? If it came from somewhere, I was unaware of it as nobody posted it.
That means I'll have to change almost everything. >_>

He means a Bishop dispelling Nirg's attack up buff, not one of the bosses using it.

Where does the dispel come from? If it came from somewhere, I was unaware of it as nobody posted it.
That means I'll have to change almost everything. >_>

He's referring to the Priest's dispel, which also unbuffs monsters.

According to Isaac, the totems last 30sec on the map. And Margana might have reflect...which is very scary.

First things first...you have to reach the bosses before you can fight them.

Having seen the maps it looks like a nightmare! lol

Yarly )= Prose said he liked to play with our tiny minds too =/ There should be a huge Puzzle stage too probably,