Marksman Building?

I've been doing a fair bit of research on 4th job archer building, but most of the stuff I've been finding is about bowmasters, taking into account SE20's initial rarity, etc. Marksmen aren't almost entirely geared toward maximizing the damage of a single attack, which makes me believe that it's much more difficult to effectively build a marksman than to do the same for a bowmaster, which I think seems just to be based on math and common sense. I wanted to hear others' opinions in this day and age specifically about marksmen (hopefully from people with first-hand experience), taking into account known future content, and so, this thread is born =p

Anyhow, I'm totally open to all kinds of critique on anything I say here. So, here's my planned SP distribution. By the way, I'm quite sure I can get my hands on any mastery book by the time I need it, so disregard the availability/price of any of them for the time being. Also, I'm pretty sure the new kMST updates and time temple will be released by the time I actually start maxing pierce, so assume those are released too.

120: 3 Sharp Eyes
121: 5 Sharp Eyes, 1 Marksman Boost
122: 7 Sharp Eyes, 1 Frostprey
123: 3 Marksman Boost, 1 Dragon’s Breath
124: 6 Marksman Boost
125: 9 Sharp Eyes, 1 Snipe
126: 9 Marksman Boost
127: 12 Marksman Boost
128: 15 Marksman Boost
129: 18 Marksman Boost
130: 21 Marksman Boost
131: 24 Marksman Boost
132: 27 Marksman Boost
133: 12 Sharp Eyes
134: 15 Sharp Eyes
135: 3 Piercing Arrow
136: 6 Piercing Arrow
137: 9 Piercing Arrow
138: 12 Piercing Arrow
139: 15 Piercing Arrow
140: 18 Piercing Arrow
141: 21 Piercing Arrow
142: 22 Piercing Arrow, 3 Snipe
143: 6 Snipe
144: 9 Snipe
145: 12 Snipe
146: 15 Snipe
147: 18 Snipe
148: 21 Snipe
149: 24 Snipe
150: 27 Snipe
151: 30 Snipe
152: 18 Sharp Eyes
153: 21 Sharp Eyes
154: 24 Sharp Eyes
155: 27 Sharp Eyes
156: 29 Sharp Eyes, 23 Piercing Arrow
157: 26 Piercing Arrow
158: 29 Piercing Arrow
159: 30 Marksman Boost
160: 30 Sharp Eyes, 30 Piercing Arrow, 1 Blind

Okay, time for some explaining. I opt to get 3 sharp eyes right off the bat because I don't think I can deal with a timer shorter than 30 seconds. I know that the first point in sharp eyes gives a very significant boost, but I feel that I need to pump it up to a 30-second timer so that I'd actually be able to use it efficiently. The reasoning for the next few levels is fairly obvious, pumping up sharp eyes to level 9 quickly for that decent timer and setting up marksman boost at optimal levels. For the 1-pointer skills, I feel that frostprey takes priority over dragon's breath, which takes priority over snipe. This works out perfectly because if I remember correctly, this is roughly the order of difficulty in obtaining these skills. After 125, I start getting marksman boost to 27 for that 90% mastery and +9 attack, leaving sharp eyes at level 9 due to its decent timer. I feel that marksman boost is much more valuable than sharp eyes because I think that the mastery boost along with the attack boost is much more important that the added critical rates (correct me if I'm wrong here). In addition, marksman boost is critical to pierce because it relies much more on minimum damage than criticals to produce better average damage. After marksman boost is done for the moment, I go for level 15 sharp eyes to lengthen the timer a bit more and to give me tons of time to pass a sharp eyes 30 book. Then, I go straight for pierce without maxing sharp eyes for the moment. The reason for this is that I think that the new 1-second pierce will quicken my training a bit more than maxed sharp eyes. Plus, it looks like a fun skill, and I'll probably be starving for a new attack by then. Another reason for delaying sharp eyes at the moment is that it doesn't benefit pierce all that much due to the fact that pierce mainly relies on heavy base damage, not added critical damage (again, correct me if I'm wrong). After upping pierce to 22, reason being to match up to snipe's growth, I start maxing snipe. I'm still delaying sharp eyes because I suspect that I'll be training mostly with pierce (1-second) by this point, which sharp eyes doesn't help all that much. Instead of boosting strafe damage with sharp eyes to take out strays, I pump snipe to instantly take them out, assuming they don't appear more often than within 4 seconds. I also think that maxed snipe would help my damage more at bosses than 15 more points into sharp eyes in its place would. Anyways, sharp eyes finally gets maxed after snipe, followed by pierce and marksman boost.

Sorry for the wall of text, but these are the specific things I'd like to know:
1. Is it a dumb idea to delay sharp eyes for so long?
2. Marksman Boost takes priority to be maxed first, right? (of course, after decent timer SE and 1-pointer skills)
3. How much a boost is 21 -> 30 Pierce really? Is it worth completely maxing out pierce to delay snipe by three levels?

Thanks for reading =]

I wholly support the 3 SE at level 120. It makes the most sense to me, unless you're constantly partied with a higher level archer that can SE you. That's what I did, because 30 seconds is the MINIMUM timer I can stand on a buff. 30 seconds still isn't enough if you have to SE mid/top while bottoming Newties.

I'd do 1 FP at 121 and 1 SE 1 DB 1 MM Boost at 122. MM Boost helps your damage, but that first point in FP instantly removes the need for summoning rocks at Newties, which are a pain in the ass to have to carry around. DB is an extremely useful skill combined with Blizzard and worth leaving SE at 6 for another level. After that, continue with 3 SE and MM Boost.

You'll want Sharp Eyes sooner if you want to boss earlier. I'd get Boost to 6, then go 15 SE before getting more Boost. You'll be more wanted in parties, and it's actually more beneficial to your damage than straight Boost*. Otherwise, looks fine.

I can't really comment on the Pierce and Snipe, as I'm a (former) BM, not a MM. I can only say that I would personally max SE before maxing either skill, unless Time Temple comes out before you get there.

*At least according to Kevvl: he says max SE 1 Boost > Max Boost 1 SE

I'm actually interested in this myself, as I'm thinking about starting a MM as a side project after hitting Corsair.

*At least according to Kevvl: he says max SE 1 Boost > Max Boost 1 SE

Aya, that is indeed true. I'll do the math real quick, using a random damage range from damage-ranges.com
Ok, this one.

Judging by his total Dex and Attack, he has 134 W-Att.
Judging by his Minimum Range, he has 65% mastery.

With that damage range, his DPH would be 15,184 average, without any SE.
Make it max SE, and his DPH is 25,271 .18
Give him Max Boost, his range would becomes 2974~3633
That makes his average DPH 24,645 with level 1 SE.

Sure, it's a bit extreme to only have 1 SE, but it's the same idea with more. SE is a constant additive, put it on a graph, and it'll go up in damage with a very slight variation in curve when the activation % goes up.

Saph also did one.

 Spoiler

Level 133 MM: 90 STR, 687 DEX, 140 WA with elixirs (taken from Senyain's DPS comparison from April)

A: 10 SE + 30 Boost
Damage range 3139~3844; average 3491.5
%DPS: (100 + (220 * .45)) * 4 / .72 = 1105.556%
#DPS: 3491.5 * 1105.556% = 38600/s

B: 30 SE + 10 Boost
Damage range 2356~3665; average 3010.5
%DPS: (100 + (240 * .55)) * 4 / .72 = 1288.889%
#DPS: 3010.5 * 1288.889% = 38802/s

C: 10 SE + 30... Snipe?
Damage range 1995~3588; average 2791.5
%DPS: ((100 + (220 * .45)) * 52 + x) / 10.08 = 1026.587% + x/10.08
#DPS: 2791.5 * 1026.587% + x/10.08 = 28657 + x/10.08

x = 68k (Newtie's HP): 28657 + 68000/10.08 = 35403/s
x = 100k (current cap): 28657 + 100000/10.08 = 38577/s
x = 200k (JMS cap): 28657 + 200000/10.08 = 48498/s[/quote]

As to the TS's questions...

1) Not if you're poor. MM boost is a great alternative, the damage difference is fairly slight. Personally, I'm hunting Pianus daily for my SE. Failed 2 books so far ^^;
2) As the rest of my post has shown, Snipe first is great for soloing certain bosses, but practically, a bad idea. With the KMST updates, you'd even make decent exp sniping Crimson Guardians (No Strafe required, although you can bet it'd help).
[spoiler=Snipe @ CG's]

Another number crunch for you: Spamming Snipe and nothing else at CGs, level 130.

360 Snipes per hour, 1 CG per Snipe, 6200 EXP per CG.
360 * 6200 = 2,232,000 EXP/hour.
50,662,758 EXP to level from 130 -> 131.
4.24%/hour.

Eh...

With the KMST updates, we're talking "Decent"!
900 Snipes Per hour, 1 CG per Snipe, 6200 EXP per CG.
900 * 6200 = 5,580,000 EXP/hour.
50,662,758 EXP to level from 130 -> 131.
10.62% per hour.

Heh...
[/spoiler]
Pierce first is great with the Time Temple, and also pretty good if you train at Peak or Guardians.
SE first is ideal for partying, and better for DPS. Ironically, if you frequently train with an Archer that has max SE, boost is obviously better, so it's not ALWAYS best for parties!
3) You'd have to ask someone with more than level 1 Pierce.

I agree with the 3 sharp eyes @ 120, too. I hate short timers. \o/

I dunno if it's better to get SE or Boost maxed first - I was 139 when 4th job was released, so I didn't have to worry about it. I would think you'd want to max sharp eyes much earlier than you're planning to, though.

While Piercing Arrow is a nice skill, and will probably be a lot better with 1 second charge, there's really only two places where you'd want to use it for training, and that's at the bottom of skeles with a party or at Peak of the Big nest soloing/partying. You won't be using it at newties, anego/bigfoot, or even at guardians because they constantly seal, interrupting the charge.

That's why I'd consider Snipe the better skill at the moment - being useful pretty much everywhere - at bosses too. (Even if it is a boring skill)

my little experience with marksmen, not cold numbers on a piece of paper allow me to say this. it looks ok till 122. after that it is pretty uneffective. get that lv 9 se ASAP. 9 se, 1 boost, 1 fp and 1 db if by then you passed se 20 go ahead and get it to 20. then you can go back and get some boost. id say 11-16 boost is nice. then either go back to se or if you dont have the book and dont expect to get it anytime soon go and pump pierce. but like others said SE > boost. when you get SE to 29, then go back to boost and get it to 27. not until then should you go all out with pierce. even with the 1 second charge pierce is prettyuseless till lv 21 when it can hit all 6 monsters. pierce is nice but it takes a lot to get it where you want to use it and until then you better depend on a good solid strafe to get you there. oh and i would trow 1 point in snipe for the cool factor somewhere in there.

my little view on MM skills go like this
SE > Boost > Pierce > DB to 21 = Snipe > Frostprey > blind.

for the the hardest part would be to decide if i want snipe or db first. it would depend on new maps and whatnot when you up there. if best map is mobs, obv you go db. if it is newty like go snipe.

I personally did this:

120: Snipe, Frostprey, Pierce
121: Boost, DB, Snipe
122: 3 SE
123: 3 SE

Granted I have both connections in order to get all the skills and multiple friends with Max SE. Also note I'm headed on an odd build from here on out maxing snipe early then going for boost because I count on my slow speed of leveling to bring new content that snipe will be effective at at that point, but that is just a sub-note I'd like to make.

From my experience with SE, my level 6 is a tolerable timer for me for the time being and from my party experience with max, I only get about another 500 max dmg per crit with my current equipment alongside slightly more frequent crits.

Of course people always say that it you want to boss sooner, then you have to have max SE asap, but I kinda doubt people would want a 13X in their bossing party to begin with unless they consider it a pure SE mule. This is the line of thinking that got me to choose my build. If you're fine with being a buff mule for several levels of "bossing" by all means go ahead, but I personally would prefer to be in the fray when it comes time for me to start participating in those fights. Also, who has the HP for anything better than Zakum at level 13X without washing/blooding?

My personal priorities go like this.

All Skills lvl 1>SE(Tolerable Timer Level)>Boost-Snipe>Pierce-MaxSE>Moderate Mix of skills from here out

EDIT: Overall your build isn't too bad assuming that you meet your tolerable SE level and like mobbing with IA. Although I'd personally hold out a level before starting SE to get the feel of 4th job.

Directly answering the questions:
1.Not at all
2.Yes
3.Can't answer cause I'm not there yet

Of course people always say that it you want to boss sooner, then you have to have max SE asap, but I kinda doubt people would want a 13X in their bossing party to begin with unless they consider it a pure SE mule. This is the line of thinking that got me to choose my build. If you're fine with being a buff mule for several levels of "bossing" by all means go ahead, but I personally would prefer to be in the fray when it comes time for me to start participating in those fights. Also, who has the HP for anything better than Zakum at level 13X without washing/blooding?

You make it sound like there's a lot of bosses better than Zakum. Zakum and Pap are usually what people are referring to.

Hmmm... I'm kind of having a hard time seeing how pumping SP into sharp eyes takes priority over pumping into boost. I'll probably do some actual number crunching with my own stats and see what they come out to, and if sharp eyes wins, I'll max it immediately after 6 boost and the 1-pointers. For those saying that I'll want max SE for bossing, I'm pretty sure anyone would accept any archer no matter how low his or her SE level is, as long as it has a decent timer, just for the fact that they get SE. Also, I'm quite sure I'll be taking pierce before snipe, unless we're still stuck with leafre by the end of the year.

I wholly support the 3 SE at level 120. It makes the most sense to me, unless you're constantly partied with a higher level archer that can SE you. That's what I did, because 30 seconds is the MINIMUM timer I can stand on a buff. 30 seconds still isn't enough if you have to SE mid/top while bottoming Newties.

I'd do 1 FP at 121 and 1 SE 1 DB 1 MM Boost at 122. MM Boost helps your damage, but that first point in FP instantly removes the need for summoning rocks at Newties, which are a pain in the ass to have to carry around. DB is an extremely useful skill combined with Blizzard and worth leaving SE at 6 for another level. After that, continue with 3 SE and MM Boost.

You'll want Sharp Eyes sooner if you want to boss earlier. I'd get Boost to 6, then go 15 SE before getting more Boost. You'll be more wanted in parties, and it's actually more beneficial to your damage than straight Boost*. Otherwise, looks fine.

I can't really comment on the Pierce and Snipe, as I'm a (former) BM, not a MM. I can only say that I would personally max SE before maxing either skill, unless Time Temple comes out before you get there.

*At least according to Kevvl: he says max SE 1 Boost > Max Boost 1 SE

I'm actually interested in this myself, as I'm thinking about starting a MM as a side project after hitting Corsair.

Remember that mastery books, etc. don't matter to me because I'm pretty sure I can get my hands on them and get one to pass by the time I need it. Oh, and about the 1-pointer thing, I'll probably be training at newties, typhons, or maybe crimson guardians if they're feasible at 120-125, and frostprey don't really possess much of an advantage over eagle at any of these places (summoning rock cost doesn't matter to me). Dragon's breath is pretty useless at these places too, and snipe's long cooldown makes me reluctant to be too worried about not getting it earlier (frostprey and dragon's breath seem funner to me).

And yeah, I'm pretty sure I won't get that far before the release of time temple =]

Aya, that is indeed true. I'll do the math real quick, using a random damage range from damage-ranges.com
Ok, this one.

Judging by his total Dex and Attack, he has 134 W-Att.
Judging by his Minimum Range, he has 65% mastery.

With that damage range, his DPH would be 15,184 average, without any SE.
Make it max SE, and his DPH is 25,271 .18
Give him Max Boost, his range would becomes 2974~3633
That makes his average DPH 24,645 with level 1 SE.

Sure, it's a bit extreme to only have 1 SE, but it's the same idea with more. SE is a constant additive, put it on a graph, and it'll go up in damage with a very slight variation in curve when the activation % goes up.

Saph also did one.

 Spoiler

Level 133 MM: 90 STR, 687 DEX, 140 WA with elixirs (taken from Senyain's DPS comparison from April)

A: 10 SE + 30 Boost
Damage range 3139~3844; average 3491.5
%DPS: (100 + (220 * .45)) * 4 / .72 = 1105.556%
#DPS: 3491.5 * 1105.556% = 38600/s

B: 30 SE + 10 Boost
Damage range 2356~3665; average 3010.5
%DPS: (100 + (240 * .55)) * 4 / .72 = 1288.889%
#DPS: 3010.5 * 1288.889% = 38802/s

C: 10 SE + 30... Snipe?
Damage range 1995~3588; average 2791.5
%DPS: ((100 + (220 * .45)) * 52 + x) / 10.08 = 1026.587% + x/10.08
#DPS: 2791.5 * 1026.587% + x/10.08 = 28657 + x/10.08

x = 68k (Newtie's HP): 28657 + 68000/10.08 = 35403/s
x = 100k (current cap): 28657 + 100000/10.08 = 38577/s
x = 200k (JMS cap): 28657 + 200000/10.08 = 48498/s

As to the TS's questions...

1) Not if you're poor. MM boost is a great alternative, the damage difference is fairly slight. Personally, I'm hunting Pianus daily for my SE. Failed 2 books so far ^^;
2) As the rest of my post has shown, Snipe first is great for soloing certain bosses, but practically, a bad idea. With the KMST updates, you'd even make decent exp sniping Crimson Guardians (No Strafe required, although you can bet it'd help).
[spoiler=Snipe @ CG's]
With the KMST updates, we're talking "Decent"!
900 Snipes Per hour, 1 CG per Snipe, 6200 EXP per CG.
900 * 6200 = 5,580,000 EXP/hour.
50,662,758 EXP to level from 130 -> 131.
10.62% per hour.

Heh...
[/spoiler]
Pierce first is great with the Time Temple, and also pretty good if you train at Peak or Guardians.
SE first is ideal for partying, and better for DPS. Ironically, if you frequently train with an Archer that has max SE, boost is obviously better, so it's not ALWAYS best for parties!
3) You'd have to ask someone with more than level 1 Pierce.

Thanks for showing me that calculation, I'm actually kind of surprised by the outcome. I'll try some number crunching with my own stats =]

my little experience with marksmen, not cold numbers on a piece of paper allow me to say this. it looks ok till 122. after that it is pretty uneffective. get that lv 9 se ASAP. 9 se, 1 boost, 1 fp and 1 db if by then you passed se 20 go ahead and get it to 20. then you can go back and get some boost. id say 11-16 boost is nice. then either go back to se or if you dont have the book and dont expect to get it anytime soon go and pump pierce. but like others said SE > boost. when you get SE to 29, then go back to boost and get it to 27. not until then should you go all out with pierce. even with the 1 second charge pierce is prettyuseless till lv 21 when it can hit all 6 monsters. pierce is nice but it takes a lot to get it where you want to use it and until then you better depend on a good solid strafe to get you there. oh and i would trow 1 point in snipe for the cool factor somewhere in there.

my little view on MM skills go like this
SE > Boost > Pierce > DB to 21 = Snipe > Frostprey > blind.

for the the hardest part would be to decide if i want snipe or db first. it would depend on new maps and whatnot when you up there. if best map is mobs, obv you go db. if it is newty like go snipe.

I'm pretty sure time temple will be out soon, which is why I'm leaning toward pierce as early as possible. I'm also going snipe before dragon's breath for sure because in my opinion, any mob of over 4 monsters in a straight line in front of me is a pierce-ready mob, and snipe at 4/5 seconds would really speed up the killing of strays.

Thanks for all the input, everyone =]

I strongly recommend you get that 1 point in Frostprey. It reduces your amount of potions spent to almost nil, it's cheaper as far as Srocks, and it also deals about triple what Eagle does.

Get 21 or so Eagle, and get FP ASAP.

I strongly recommend you get that 1 point in Frostprey. It reduces your amount of potions spent to almost nil, it's cheaper as far as Srocks, and it also deals about triple what Eagle does.

Get 21 or so Eagle, and get FP ASAP.

Easier to top Newties with FP than Eagle, too.

bossing> training. therefore, SE30> Marksman boost, i get 1 point in each skill before maxing SE. SE20 is not rare, but rather se30 if thats what youre talking about lol

I strongly recommend you get that 1 point in Frostprey. It reduces your amount of potions spent to almost nil, it's cheaper as far as Srocks, and it also deals about triple what Eagle does.

Get 21 or so Eagle, and get FP ASAP.

It's at level 122 in my build, and I'm delaying it from 120 for reasons in my above post.

bossing> training. therefore, SE30> Marksman boost, i get 1 point in each skill before maxing SE. SE20 is not rare, but rather se30 if thats what youre talking about lol

I was saying that nobody would be rejected from a boss run just for having low-level SE, and again, mastery book cost/availability is practically no barrier for me :3

As long as you aren't putting it off much longer than that...

I was saying that nobody would be rejected from a boss run just for having low-level SE

Hello, my name is nobody.

I don't agree with Pierce before Snipe. Once we get the updates you'll be doing 200k damage every 5 seconds along with strafing bringing your DPS up to and over Bowmasters. Unless you plan to get to 16x+ I'd go Snipe first.

I was saying that nobody would be rejected from a boss run just for having low-level SE, and again, mastery book cost/availability is practically no barrier for me :3

I don't know what planet you're from, but from my experience, you either have max SE or you ain't gonna be goin on no run. Only exception I see is if a party wants you to pap or maybe you're zakking with some friends.

I did SE to 20 first, getting 1 FP at 120, 1 boost, 1 DB, 1 pierce (just for the effect) at 124 and 1 snipe at 126 or so, when I got the skill. now I'm adding Boost.
my reasoning has been to take into account the type of training I'm doing. while I was at newties, SE made it easier to get parties, and makes lower leveled archers/NLs pump out more damage, thus more exp; so I started raising that.

by the time I was 128, which is where I got 20 SE, I had enough hp to move to guardians. I don't see myself using pierce on them, at least with 2 second charge, since I can't tank the mace attack and they cant be frozen. So I started adding boost to make my AE damage better (plus I can't afford SE 30). The only time I use snipe here is when I'm moving from one side to the other, and it's already cooled down by then.

now I'm planning to get 26 Boost, then 21/30 pierce, and then max snipe. by keeping boost at 26, I can max snipe 1 level earlier, the 3 levels extra on pierce will depend on the training spots we have available and how much I like 21 pierce. also, I figure that getting pierce before snipe will make me get to the point of maxing both earlier. mobs are always better training than 1v1s.

I intend to keep DB at 1 for quite some time. if DB can't push a monster then that means there's at least 5 in my range, which is enough to be worthy of pierce IMO.

I was saying that nobody would be rejected from a boss run just for having low-level SE, and again, mastery book cost/availability is practically no barrier for me :3

hello, i'm nobody

It's kind of stupid, really. If you're not a NL, you stand to gain just about nothing from having SE, and if you are, you still get 2/3 the benefit for 1/3 the points. But then again, it's also stupid that 1 point of attack can cost millions, and I doubt that'll stop any time soon.

RE 30 Boost vs 30 SE in numbers
Since they multiply each other, it's probably actually more beneficial to have something in between the two scenarios presented above, assuming you don't mind being thrown out of parties by stupid people (i.e. everyone).
Ex. simplified example:
10*30 = 300
20*20 = 400

Wow, you guys need to find better friends xD

By the way, I was talking about non-horntail bosses because you'll have maxed SE after you reach a high enough level to have enough hp and overcome the level difference cut anyways.

I did SE to 20 first, getting 1 FP at 120, 1 boost, 1 DB, 1 pierce (just for the effect) at 124 and 1 snipe at 126 or so, when I got the skill. now I'm adding Boost.
my reasoning has been to take into account the type of training I'm doing. while I was at newties, SE made it easier to get parties, and makes lower leveled archers/NLs pump out more damage, thus more exp; so I started raising that.

by the time I was 128, which is where I got 20 SE, I had enough hp to move to guardians. I don't see myself using pierce on them, at least with 2 second charge, since I can't tank the mace attack and they cant be frozen. So I started adding boost to make my AE damage better (plus I can't afford SE 30). The only time I use snipe here is when I'm moving from one side to the other, and it's already cooled down by then.

now I'm planning to get 26 Boost, then 21/30 pierce, and then max snipe. by keeping boost at 26, I can max snipe 1 level earlier, the 3 levels extra on pierce will depend on the training spots we have available and how much I like 21 pierce. also, I figure that getting pierce before snipe will make me get to the point of maxing both earlier. mobs are always better training than 1v1s.

I intend to keep DB at 1 for quite some time. if DB can't push a monster then that means there's at least 5 in my range, which is enough to be worthy of pierce IMO.

Thanks for the input =]

Question: Are crimson guardians effective at 120, assuming enough hp to take a hit from anything other than the mace attack? Compare it to typhons, newties (solo or party, but not with an ultimate-spammer), or anything else that might have a chance to compete in terms of experience rate.

It's kind of stupid, really. If you're not a NL, you stand to gain just about nothing from having SE, and if you are, you still get 2/3 the benefit for 1/3 the points. But then again, it's also stupid that 1 point of attack can cost millions, and I doubt that'll stop any time soon.

RE 30 Boost vs 30 SE in numbers
Since they multiply each other, it's probably actually more beneficial to have something in between the two scenarios presented above, assuming you don't mind being thrown out of parties by stupid people (i.e. everyone).
Ex. simplified example:
10*30 = 300
20*20 = 400

Yeah, I noticed that too. I want to do something like a graph on excel where I can compare different builds of the two skills being raised at different intervals, but I have no idea how to handle Excel with more than one variable D: I'll try to find out with google.

You don't really need to do a plot to see what's best in excel.

Just set it up so one direction is total points (1, 2, .. 60), and the other direction is number of points in Boost (0, 1, ... 30)
At any given point (x,y) on the grid, y = boost, (x-y) = se. Obviously there are 2 triangular areas which can't happen (#boost > #points, #points > #se+#boost).

The main thing throwing off a general solution is the fact that Boost depends on your base stats, SE does not. If you have crappy w.atk Boost is more useful (100+10 = 10%, 150+10 = 7%)

And of course since Boost goes on a 5 point improvement (level 1, 6, 11, 16, 21, 26 I think), you'd have to compare big jumps to decide which is a better route.

Anyway, comparing the values in each column would tell you the optimal # of points in SE/Boost if you have that number of points available.