FM Courtesy

I play an almost entirely 18+ game now. I've met some rude and unpleasant people, but I have yet to meet a "n00b" as Maplers define them. As long as you have a game largely filled with people who are immature, you will have temper tantrums, youth-caused hypocrisy and lack of manners. I will have children of my own someday, I am now certain I want to save my sanity till then, cause my kids will probably be like that too.

Haha just take it all in with a grain of salt I guess (and lower your expectations ). I don't really interact with many people outside of my BL and guild anyway. Besides, there are enough other things to warrant getting angry/annoyed about in the world that immature kids just aren't worth your time.

I agree...courtesy is dead nowadays. D:

Generally, i try to take up as little space as possible, because I would want somebody to do the same. It's pretty irritating than trying to find a FM spot, but only to find a bunch of spaced out people.

I think the only time I've held two spots is when I ask if anybody in BL/guild/GA needs a spot.

It does matter in a the long run. If each row in that FM can house 2 more people, then each room can house 6 more people, meaning people won't have to go around looking for spots as much.

It doesnt matter because people will still be looking for spots. Just because certain fms squeeze together to fit more people in, that doesnt mean an FM will clear up. There are empty spots either way; the question is the quality of the spot. Are you going to go up to someone in FM 1 Ch 17 and tell him to move over so more people can squeeze in as you do in FM 18 ch 1?

The extra spot is definitely there. Ever check out FM 1? They have the best example of being compact, because their people try squeezing as far as they can to make more space.

The reason why FM 1 Ch 1 can hold so many stores is because many of those people know each other; They line up in that manner so their friends can fit in. I have friends who have 2 FM 1 ch 1 spots. I'd understand moving over for friends, but at the same time, for many, it's asking too much for someone to move for a complete stranger. Yes, there are people like you who would move for a stranger, but at the same time, not everyone is held to your standards, your standards are not absolute, just because you follow them, that doesnt mean others should too.

It's greed that creates this fear.

It's not greed if it is "rightfully" yours (if it can be called that way). What's wrong with them fearing losing the spot? You and Elliot have both mentioned people who're able to steal spots in an instant via flash jump, tele, etc. Is there something wrong with fearing for what you own? It might be courtesy to give up one of the spots, but at the same time, it's up to the choice of the person who's holding the spot. Who are you to judge them for deciding to protect their own interests?

LoL. I see some flawed logic here.

Also, if you don't reset your items completely until you find the right spot, then you wouldn't run into this problem. The procedure for this:
1) Set up an item for 10m
2) Look at the boundaries
3) Find the sweet spot, re-open
4) Set up your items

Really this shouldn't take you more than 1 minute to do.

It's not logic, it was a scenario. Not all of us is trying to conserve as much space as possible. People see a spot, people open up. Simple as that. Your scenario is based on if people actually care about saving space. If they did care, then the store wouldnt have been open to have proper prices to begin with. If you don't care, then you'll have a store opened up with proper prices. What're the odds of a store opened up with proper prices to misprice an item after the store is up? Zero. What're the odds of mispricing an item when you reset up? Higher than zero. For many, that's enough not to do it.

No, because moving FM spots doesn't cost you anything other than a few extra minutes. If someone at a store approaches you and asks you to tell him what direction a certain item is in, would you reply "go look at the signs?" Likewise, I'll compare this to parking spaces. Suppose there is a dirt parking lot where there are no lines. Are you going to park your car ridiculously far from the guy next to you so you can get the extra space?

Your store example illustrates this perfectly: While I personally would help the man, it's perfectly understandable for someone else to tell him to "look at the signs". It's not up to you to decide, it's up to me. You're asking for a service from me, I have the right to say no. You're making it seem as if you have the right to decide whether or not I say yes or no. Alternatively, if you have 20 people lined up behind this man waiting for service, then it's perfectly understandable to tell the man to "look at the signs". You have more important things to do. Likewise, you probably have more important things to do than to sit in front of your computer measuring 4.7 cms to conserve shop space.

Really, your comparison is a bad one as its really based on what's important to a person: For some, those extra few minutes could be more important than the change that you might be demanding from the person in my example. Just as I would have no right to demand that person give up soomething that's his, you'd have no right to demand the person spend some extra moments to "save space".

The reason why FM 1 Ch 1 can hold so many stores is because many of those people know each other; They line up in that manner so their friends can fit in. I have friends who have 2 FM 1 ch 1 spots. I'd understand moving over for friends, but at the same time, for many, it's asking too much for someone to move for a complete stranger. Yes, there are people like you who would move for a stranger, but at the same time, not everyone is held to your standards, your standards are not absolute, just because you follow them, that doesnt mean others should too.

So that means that people should only move for friends and not strangers? Why must distinguish this? Is being a friend make her more human than a stranger?

It's not greed if it is "rightfully" yours (if it can be called that way). What's wrong with them fearing losing the spot? You and Elliot have both mentioned people who're able to steal spots in an instant via flash jump, tele, etc. Is there something wrong with fearing for what you own? It might be courtesy to give up one of the spots, but at the same time, it's up to the choice of the person who's holding the spot. Who are you to judge them for deciding to protect their own interests?

Let's compare this to three people trying to survive in the desert, with only one canteen of water. There is a rule among the three that the person gets 5 seconds to drink from the canteen every day. However, one of the three people can gulp more water than the other people can, and thus drinks more than his share (which should be rightfully 1/3rd of the canteen), and as a result, the other person will dehydrate. Would you not call this greed? It's "rightfully" his because he get's 5 seconds, but because of his actions one person must face thirst?

It's not logic, it was a scenario. Not all of us is trying to conserve as much space as possible. People see a spot, people open up. Simple as that. Your scenario is based on if people actually care about saving space. If they did care, then the store wouldnt have been open to have proper prices to begin with. If you don't care, then you'll have a store opened up with proper prices. What're the odds of a store opened up with proper prices to misprice an item after the store is up? Zero. What're the odds of mispricing an item when you reset up? Higher than zero. For many, that's enough not to do it.

That's like someone choosing not to save another person's life from fear of getting sued. -.-

Your store example illustrates this perfectly: While I personally would help the man, it's perfectly understandable for someone else to tell him to "look at the signs". It's not up to you to decide, it's up to me. You're asking for a service from me, I have the right to say no. You're making it seem as if you have the right to decide whether or not I say yes or no. Alternatively, if you have 20 people lined up behind this man waiting for service, then it's perfectly understandable to tell the man to "look at the signs". You have more important things to do. Likewise, you probably have more important things to do than to sit in front of your computer measuring 4.7 cms to conserve shop space.


Really, your comparison is a bad one as its really based on what's important to a person: For some, those extra few minutes could be more important than the change that you might be demanding from the person in my example. Just as I would have no right to demand that person give up soomething that's his, you'd have no right to demand the person spend some extra moments to "save space".

Jackk, I'm not saying that you have to, but I'm saying people on this game lack the courtesy to, hence the title.

Well I have a different prespective on it.

In my opinion it's rude to ask a stranger for something for free when that person worked to obtain it. Typicaly I do not respond to people claiming I have two spots or that I had the door spot all week or w/e. If they want a spot they should wake up in the middle of the night and open maple once a second for an hour and get one. Otherwise I have no symphathy for their lack of spot. They should invest in battery back up, good computers, good connections, etc...

At times I'll hold a double spot I captured (truely hold it, I own the store on one side and my husband owns the store on the other side) until the weekend when I'll be gone, then we'll move and set a store in the middle as the weekend is the best selling time. After the weekend ends we'll give the spot away to a friend or sell it. If I had a trusted friend who I knew would give the spot back I might let him/her have it for a couple days, but I would NEVER loan it to a stranger (that's saying, skam plz).

And I should say I've never played in Scania and while I know their FM is much larger than Bellocan's I wouldn't think a spot in rm 18 would not really be that big a deal. When I see someone hogging 2 spots in the back of room 7, I don't even give it a 2nd thought, it's not a desireable spot anyway. The only times I've held double spots are in rm 1 or 2 where it's actually worth it to set a 2nd store or where a friend might actually want it. and I assume rm 1-2 in Bello = whole bottom row and maybe rm 7 too in Scania.

So that means that people should only move for friends and not strangers? Why must distinguish this? Is being a friend make her more human than a stranger?

LOL at this. Helping yourself would take priority over strangers. If you are able to help your friend while benefiting yourself then I don't see why not but for a stranger? I think not.

Let's compare this to three people trying to survive in the desert, with only one canteen of water. There is a rule among the three that the person gets 5 seconds to drink from the canteen every day. However, one of the three people can gulp more water than the other people can, and thus drinks more than his share (which should be rightfully 1/3rd of the canteen), and as a result, the other person will dehydrate. Would you not call this greed? It's "rightfully" his because he get's 5 seconds, but because of his actions one person must face thirst?

The 5 seconds thing would never be allowed in a real life situation. You can't apply that example.

That's like someone choosing not to save another person's life from fear of getting sued. -.-

Well, you're actually supposed to ask the person if you're allowed to help first. If the person is unconscious, then you are allowed to take action without consent and without consequence.

Jackk, I'm not saying that you have to, but I'm saying people on this game lack the courtesy to, hence the title.

Yes, there is a lack of courtesy. How courteous is it buy certain scrolls (GM 1-Handed Sword Scroll) in MTS for a few hundred NX Cash when it should be a few hundred thousand NX Cash? Shouldn't you trade the item back and tell him that he should sell it for a high price for the sake of courtesy f3?

Response in bold

2) Someone comes in and takes both the spots and then opens a shop saying "S> 2 spots." <~ Like who needs two spots at a time?

I always take 2 spots and give one to a friend in FM 1. Like after some SC's I get as many as 5 spots and just give away to friends.

LOL at this. Helping yourself would take priority over strangers. If you are able to help your friend while benefiting yourself then I don't see why not but for a stranger? I think not.

I don't see how helping a friend benefits you more than helping a stranger. And not everything is based on benefits. If everyone did things merely for benefit, then the world would be a very effed up place.

The 5 seconds thing would never be allowed in a real life situation. You can't apply that example.

"It was merely a scenario." <~ I recall this being used on me.

Well, you're actually supposed to ask the person if you're allowed to help first. If the person is unconscious, then you are allowed to take action without consent and without consequence.

Well, what if you two were in solitude and there were no witnesses. The person you're saving could easily lie about what happened.

Yes, there is a lack of courtesy. How courteous is it buy certain scrolls (GM 1-Handed Sword Scroll) in MTS for a few hundred NX Cash when it should be a few hundred thousand NX Cash? Shouldn't you trade the item back and tell him that he should sell it for a high price for the sake of courtesy f3?

That's merely a mistake by the owner's part. That situation could not, and could never be applied to this.

So that means that people should only move for friends and not strangers? Why must distinguish this? Is being a friend make her more human than a stranger?

Im not even saying that you shouldnt move for strangers. Im saying you're more likely to move for friends than for a complete stranger. In a perfect world, yes you'd move for everyone, but we dont live in a perfect world. With that in mind, would you give up your spot to a hated enemy?

Let's compare this to three people trying to survive in the desert, with only one canteen of water. There is a rule among the three that the person gets 5 seconds to drink from the canteen every day. However, one of the three people can gulp more water than the other people can, and thus drinks more than his share (which should be rightfully 1/3rd of the canteen), and as a result, the other person will dehydrate. Would you not call this greed? It's "rightfully" his because he get's 5 seconds, but because of his actions one person must face thirst?

Where the hell did that analogy come from? As Kevin said, it's not even rational. I know if I was stuck in the desert with you and Kevin (oh man, if that happened, I think I'd die listening to you two argue before I die of thirst, LOL), I know I certainly wont agree to that rule. I'd say that it's that person who's facing thirst's fault for agreeing to such a retarded idea in the first place. Who owns the canteen of water? because whoever does should obviously be entitled to it, in which it is then his choice whether or not to share it. If each has a canteen, then this wouldnt be a problem. In your scenario, no one has a right to the item by itself. In the FM situation, someone actually owns the spot.

That's like someone choosing not to save another person's life from fear of getting sued. -.-

That's a bit extreme in terms of a comparisson. Your example involves consequences but there are no consequences to holding the spot.

Jackk, I'm not saying that you have to, but I'm saying people on this game lack the courtesy to, hence the title.

and Im not saying that you have to either, Im merely saying that it's going too far to ask people to live on your standards of courtesy. I mean, really, this is none of your buisness. You already have your spot, why does it matter what they're doing with their spot? It's nice that you have your own "personal sense of courtesy" here, but at the same time, you cant expect others to have this exact sense of courtesy. As Kevin said, to someone else (Ex. VoltesV), they would return the 100% GM Scrolls they bought in MTS for under 1k. If he went "People these days lack courtesy...they're all about ripping people off and getting cheap deals and making money that way. They should return the scroll because its the right thing to do", would you agree with him and return the scroll? Everyone has a different sense of justice. Just keep yoru standards to yourself and let others do the same.

Edit: The mistake is indeed by the owner of the scroll but the same can be said about shop spots. I agree with LittlePrincess here: It can be said that it's a "mistake" of the person looking for a spot to not look earlier or to have the necessary "equipment" to get a spot and hang onto it.

I hate when people intentionally take two FM spots. What's the point? Especially over the FM door. Ugh! Share pl0x.

I don't see how helping a friend benefits you more than helping a stranger.

Well the benefit of helping a friend is that they have a much higher chance of repaying your kindness compared to someone you randomly meet.

I always take 2 spots and give one to a friend in FM 1. Like after some SC's I get as many as 5 spots and just give away to friends.

Hey buddy, want to share an extra FM1 spot ;]?

Then I don't see how that's different from FM other than having a permanent owl, from which Nexon wouldn't cut. Also, it'd make the game much less realistic and thus have less enjoyability.

How many owls do you think Nexon is selling to people who want ores? Defense scrolls?
Owls on a per-item basis are only worth it if you buy expensive items. They're useless to the average player.


As for your comment on "less realistic" you can go ahead and stop using your magic spells too if that makes the game more fun for you. Seriously that's the most inane excuse I've seen for the FM so far. It's wrong in so many ways that I'm not even going to tackle it.

Im not even saying that you shouldnt move for strangers. Im saying you're more likely to move for friends than for a complete stranger. In a perfect world, yes you'd move for everyone, but we dont live in a perfect world. With that in mind, would you give up your spot to a hated enemy?

By your definition, people do not deserve the spot unless they become your friend.

Where the hell did that analogy come from? As Kevin said, it's not even rational. I know if I was stuck in the desert with you and Kevin (oh man, if that happened, I think I'd die listening to you two argue before I die of thirst, LOL), I know I certainly wont agree to that rule. I'd say that it's that person who's facing thirst's fault for agreeing to such a retarded idea in the first place. Who owns the canteen of water? because whoever does should obviously be entitled to it, in which it is then his choice whether or not to share it. If each has a canteen, then this wouldnt be a problem. In your scenario, no one has a right to the item by itself. In the FM situation, someone actually owns the spot.

LoL. Then our arguments will keep you awake and prevent you from freezing in the case the three of us were stuck in a blizzard. =)

FM is free territory. Why should someone "own" the spot? Rather, they're merely temporarily "using" the spot.

That's a bit extreme in terms of a comparisson. Your example involves consequences but there are no consequences to holding the spot.

The idea is the same though. You help someone and have them come back to bite you.

and Im not saying that you have to either, Im merely saying that it's going too far to ask people to live on your standards of courtesy. I mean, really, this is none of your buisness. You already have your spot, why does it matter what they're doing with their spot? It's nice that you have your own "personal sense of courtesy" here, but at the same time, you cant expect others to have this exact sense of courtesy.

And you can't expect people to say please and thank you anymore either. =(

As Kevin said, to someone else (Ex. VoltesV), they would return the 100% GM Scrolls they bought in MTS for under 1k. If he went "People these days lack courtesy...they're all about ripping people off and getting cheap deals and making money that way. They should return the scroll because its the right thing to do", would you agree with him and return the scroll? Everyone has a different sense of justice. Just keep yoru standards to yourself and let others do the same.

How about this. Let's say you go to the store and you see an item incorrectly marked as clearance 80% off. When you buy it, don't you agree that the shop owner MUST give you the item as marked?

People open shops and type in values knowing that all deals are final.

Edit: The mistake is indeed by the owner of the scroll but the same can be said about shop spots. I agree with LittlePrincess here: It can be said that it's a "mistake" of the person looking for a spot to not look earlier or to have the necessary "equipment" to get a spot and hang onto it.

As I already said, people don't "own" the spot, they're merely using it.

How many owls do you think Nexon is selling to people who want ores? Defense scrolls?
Owls on a per-item basis are only worth it if you buy expensive items. They're useless to the average player.

Don't turn my thread into a hate thread for Nexon.

As for your comment on "less realistic" you can go ahead and stop using your magic spells too if that makes the game more fun for you. Seriously that's the most inane excuse I've seen for the FM so far. It's wrong in so many ways that I'm not even going to tackle it.

I meant realistic in terms of gaming. Seriously, if you want something lined up like what you describe, go play Neopet's or something. Go use the Shopwizard to find all your deals, and go use the Battledome where the images refresh frame by frame when you update by refreshing your screen. That kinda gaming gets boring quick.

What the hell? I wasn't even aware drama like this exists in the FM. I just open shops in Channel 1 FM 15-17 or Channel 4 FM 1, and my stuff sells just as well.

The advantage of having a FM shop in one of the lower rooms is overrated. I start my FM surfing in the Ludi rooms, anyway. It doesn't matter that they're "taking up two spots," there's 19 channels of 22 rooms each, 32+ rooms that people actually visit, and open spots in at least one of them at all times.

Well the benefit of helping a friend is that they have a much higher chance of repaying your kindness compared to someone you randomly meet.



Hey buddy, want to share an extra FM1 spot ;]?

Give up with the fucking dcers. Lost 4 FM 1 spots 2 SC's ago because of them. =(

If someone does DC however I will generally give spot if I have 2. There was even one time I spent 7m to buy an FM 1 spot... After an emergency SC was posted and the person was nice enough to give me the money back. =)

That is what I consider nice. Most people wouldn't even give a pineapple. But he personally approached me and asked if I had wanted it back.

As far as I can see from your screenshot, the person you were talking to was genuinely not aware that two shops could fit in that space and didn't intentionally try to block off another shop spot, so you can't really blame her. Even though you told her that two shops could fit, she can't be blamed for not trusting a stranger.

That's like someone choosing not to save another person's life from fear of getting sued. -.-

Well...actually that is how medical care providers have to think sometimes, in a sense. The decision to save someone's life is not black and white. Saving someone's life may not always the right thing to do, ethically (note I say ethically not morally). If you are a practicing physician and you save someone's life but they did not consent to that procedure, you can be found liable for battery. The classic example for this situation is whether to give a life-saving blood transfusion to a Jehovah's Witness patient, especially when they have already given clear prior directives. However, I don't really see that as a great analogy for this situation anyway, so my point is moot.

Also, yes I have saved a second spot before for friends as well. There is a difference between moving over to make room for someone and giving up a spot you managed to acquire. Why hand over to a friend instead of leaving it open? Because I want to help my friends.

"I dc'ed cause of the wind outside"

...i laughed out loud

"I dc'ed cause of the wind outside"

...i laughed out loud

Why not, happens with me.

I didn't read a lot of the responses, just wanted to share my courtious-less experience.

I was at Truckers with my Bandit around 4 EST and the guy on the channel that I CCed onto just said 'cc.' So I said back, "No Please? D:" And he said "Stfu every channels open" And then I said "It just would have been nice D:" and cced.

He didn't have to say please. I would have left anyway. But it would have been courtious for him to, which has been said is missing from this game.