Theorycrafting for using ultimates at Red/Blue Wyvern maps

*If anyone thinks this should go to the Training Center or another Maplestory related section, feel free to move it there.*

I got REALLY bored and started looking at how badly Archmages rape Wyvern maps, and decided to do a side-by-side comparison on seeing which map would in theory have the most hax spawn. Pardon my chicken scratch. Hopefully, this can improve the training speed/efficiency of Archmages, and give Bishops an idea of where is better for those that sell leech for the mesos.



As you can see, Both hidden street maps are created in such a way that to clear all Wyverns on the map, you MUST get to 2 spots. There is not one spot that let's one nuke the whole map like Sky Nest II.

Red Wyverns offer a sniping spot that will blast 3 lanes worth of Wyverns, but you still gotta travel down to the square to nuke the last lane of Wyverns, which can be troublesome because in the meantime you will blast Wyverns on the same platform as you as you kill the bottom ones.

Blue Wyverns can be said to be a little safer, because there are only 3 lanes worth of Wyverns to nuke. However, I will go out on a limb and say that the spawn is slightly worse than Red Wyverns. The top 2 lanes has a spot to snipe nuke both lanes. There is then the middle platform that spawns absolutely nothing but allows one to blast the entire 3rd lane of Wyverns without having to get hit, unlike Red Wyverns with the square spot you got to stand in to get the bottom.

For both maps, just want to leave a little note that I have no idea how the spawn rate is.

Any Archmages think I hit it on the nail where the best spots are to nuke with ultimates? What do Bishops think in terms of which spot is better/less of a pain to leech someone until the famed level of 105 where it's Newties all the way?

For Bishops: Red Wyverns have an HP:EXP ratio of 21.2, while Blue Wyverns have an HP:EXP ratio of ~18.69. A lower HP:EXP ratio is better because it means more bang for your buck if you can 1/2 shot both.

If no one finds it useful, it's ok. Boredom can make me do or think about very weird things.

As an F/P AM that has nuked Blue Wyverns for 2 levels (and getting the feel of it), there are some statements that are misleading in a way (especially Blue Wyverns)

For example: The "mid snipe spot" you described isn't effective. Sure, it can hit some, but NOT all, hence why I have to drag my ass down to blast them away. Ultimate's range is too short up there to hit either platforms above or below it.

Snipe spot on the 2nd plat before top? I find that misleading. You still get hit, AND cannot cover everything around your area. If you want maximum coverage, plant yourself in the middle of either of those platforms (that's what I did).

Truly, the only true way to cover Blue Wyverns is to blast away at top first until top spawn starts to thin out, then go back down and nuke a few Meteo's away until that spawn starts to thin out. Rinse and repeat. That's what I did for training (and leeching a friend of mines for one level).

However, I found out during the 2x EXP events during Christmas, when he decides to go on 'roids (apples) and be my training partner, covering the bottom. With 4x on, EXP just went up like fivefold due to the fact he was able to keep the bottom under control while I nuked away at top (2-hitting the Wyverns), which kept constant spawn going.

Hope I just pointed out your mistakes.

Also......

No offence, but I think you're portraying the Blue Wyvern Nest as the crappiest place to ever train on (due to its unfriendly map layout) and glorifying the Red Wyvern Nest. Kinda a bit biased, I must say.

Snipe spot on the 2nd plat before top? I find that misleading. You still get hit, AND cannot cover everything around your area. If you want maximum coverage, plant yourself in the middle of either of those platforms (that's what I did).

Hope I just pointed out your mistakes.

Also......

No offence, but I think you're portraying the Blue Wyvern Nest as the crappiest place to ever train on (due to its unfriendly map layout) and glorifying the Red Wyvern Nest. Kinda a bit biased, I must say.

Sorry for giving misleading impression of top snipe spot, I was under the impression that if you chain cast 2 nukes, you can technically "snipe" the Blue Wyverns at that spot without having to get hit. I didn't really have much to work with when the only videos of Blue Wyverns were a F/P Archmage and a DK. ~_~

Also, I did not mean to glorify Red Wyverns. There were more Red Wyvern videos out there because of the popularity of I/L Mages, so I had more to work with. Also, I also saw the spawn rate myself of Red Wyverns because I was helping out a guildie Bishop who was broke by giving him money in exchange for 2 hours of leech (but I was traveling around the map looting for him, so I saw the whole map as he 2 shotted everything), but never Blue Wyverns. Therefore, I am basing things off my own experience seeing the spawn at Reds, but had to go by 2 measly videos for Blues.

I think Red Wyverns are better in most cases. I trained through half of 9x by killing the bottom platform while a Bishop rotated Genesis from the second to top platform and the third to top platform, taking out the entire map. By freezing the bottom left, I also made it possible for the Bishop to hit that platform. I dunno how you would handle Blue Wyverns.

Blue wyverns' nest really is a horrible map to train on. Misting even gives better exp if you can't 1-hit blue wyverns, and newties are better when you can 1-hit blue wyverns. The reason is because of the separated spawn, like you stated.

Blue wyverns' nest really is a horrible map to train on. Misting even gives better exp if you can't 1-hit blue wyverns, and newties are better when you can 1-hit blue wyverns. The reason is because of the separated spawn, like you stated.

Oh ew. I thought it was just speculation since WillDaSnail was refuting what I said. Did not know it was true.

So the following would be true then:

Red Wyverns nest > Blue Wyverns nest (I/L Archmage would get more EXP/hour using their ultimates than a F/P Archmage using their ultimates at the respective Wyvern map). That would also mean Bishops are better off selling leech at Red Wyverns than Blues.

Blue wyverns is a horrible horrible map. As for red wyverns, I've been there quite a lot leeching my priest to its current level. Might I suggest moving the bottom snipe spot a few pixels to the left and a few pixels down. (I need an illustration to show you what I mean) I promise you hit all of the red wyverns on the bottom. :3

Blue wyverns is a horrible horrible map. As for red wyverns, I've been there quite a lot leeching my priest to its current level. Might I suggest moving the bottom snipe spot a few pixels to the left and a few pixels down. (I need an illustration to show you what I mean) I promise you hit all of the red wyverns on the bottom. :3

You can hit the bottom spawn of Wyverns already. They have to have their wings up. This is where having a leecher who can freeze comes in handy.

If you can 100% 1-hit Blue Wyverns with Meteor, here's how you can make the map as fast as possible:

You start at the 2nd highest main platform, right in the middle. This isn't a snipe spot, unfortunately, so you're going to take some damage pretty much every time you reach this platform. But this is about training speed, not pot efficiency. Meteo the mob as soon as they spawn (you'll hit all of them), then immediately drop-jump straight down several times until you get to the small platform on the left side of your middle 'snipe spot' oval you drew. From that spot you can hit all the mobs on the two platforms below (unless they're hugging the left wall... not much you can do about that though). If you're quick at getting to that platform and using Meteo, the spawn will reappear as soon as the animation completely finishes. You can then immediately Meteo again (when you get good at this, you'll have to possibly wait a second or so until you see the mobs spawn on the right platform). Now, QUICKLY move to the left, and jump climb the rope. As soon as you finish climbing, teleport right once, putting you back on the original Meteo spot in the rotation. Use meteo quickly. As long as you were fast, (speed/jump items will be necessary here), then the spawn will come out right after you've killed the top mobs again. Now you've got to reset the spawn, by using Meteo once and staying up there. This gives you a small time window to rebuff if needed. The spawn will start again, and now you can repeat the entire cycle from the beginning.

Speed is essential here. No unecessary movement or time to rest until you've gotten back up to that single "rest" meteo at the top again.

Within 3 spawns, this pattern clears the entire map twice in a row, and clears the majority of it once. No partner necessary. How does an i/l arch who can 100% Red Wyverns compare?

Yes there are better maps, but when Newts/Skeles are hard to come by, this clearly wins for 3rd best, imo.

The second newties map is also decent; there's a really tiny notch in the floor in the middle where you can hit all three lanes at once, including the jr. newties at the bottom, but it's pretty difficult to find, and a jr. newtie spawns on top of it. Then you'd just have to clear the left and right once in a while, using seal to make sure nest golems don't get in the way. That's where I used to go when I couldn't find a map during a 2x exp event, but blue wyverns might be better if you train like that. Both assuming no party.

Well, here are the ways you can make a Blue Wyvern's Nest map productive (for the F/P's that 2-hit with Meteo):

Having a good bottom attacker at the bottom platform saves you a LOT of time, as well as keeping the top spawn consistent. If you 2-hit Blue Wyverns 100% of the time, you keep the wyverns spawning at the bottom while your bottom attacker keeps the top spawning by killing off the ones you've spawned down there.

Here's an example of how I work the map.

 Ignore my level-up, its only to show how I keep the spawn going

As you can see here, Kajitii takes the bottom (he's out of my mini-map range) and simply kills anything on the bottom that spawns while helping me keep the top spawn consistent. Having 5-6 spawn consistently on those two platforms (and Meteoing them in 1-2 hits) keeps the spawn up and the EXP rate high. If you're on 2x/4x EXP, its quite great. (FYI: I get 30%/hr on 2x, 60%/hr on 4x with a bottom attacker. No HS mules, priests, or anything like that).

Best thing is to have a good bottom attacker (preferably 11x minimum).

So truly, Blue Wyverns are great if you give it a hard thought and try to innovate something to counter a major problem that might be hindering your progress.

And what BeanTheMage said for 1-hit KOers is quite a good strategy.

How does an i/l arch who can 100% Red Wyverns compare?

At red wyverns you don't need to worry too much about timing. You get plenty of time to go up and down and clear the whole map before respawn if you can 1 hit them. Its just a small distance you have to climb up so the spawn resetting is not needed here. And i just use the small platform (left and a little bit below the spot the thread started showed), this allows you to hit the bottom properly without having someone to freeze the bottom lane wyverns. There is the chance of you falling off, but if you stay far enough to the left you won't fall off.

Blue wyvern can work well if you have another class take the bottom and have an HS mule. One of my friend used to do that. If you can 1hit them though, it'll probably be much easier to go newties and 2 hit them instead.