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A Word About Hackers, Programmers and MapleStory
#1
It all started in a beautiful day. i came back from school, turned on the computer, entered maplestory, and logged in, just to find out that i was mysteriously expelled from Odyssey. Im in Odyssey for almost a year, i have many friends there, and i was not extremely surprised because i already got expelled by mistake once. I contacted one of my Jr friends, and asked him what is this all about. He said that one of the Jrs called Elaniki, who is a real life friend of the master and has his log-in info, decided to expel me and warned the Jrs that if they will invite me back, he will kick them too.

Elaniki? i dont think i ever talked with him... but the name does ring a bell... i probably saw him a few times, but i dont remember having any problems with someone in the guild. anyway, i investigated more, and quickly found out that he expelled me because i go to forums which also discuss maplestory hacking, CEF in particular. or the way he called it, "hacking forums".

I will not deny it. yes, i am a programmer, and i go to underground coding forums, which are often called "hacking forums" by people who dont really know what hacking means.

Now i'd like to say a couple of things about programmers and underground coders.
Programmers are a type of people, who have the ability to take a complicated procedure and brake it apart in their mind into many, many small operations. Note that programming also exists outside of computers and electronic chips - there are many things in real life which are very close to computer programming. Programmers are directly related to the world's technological evolution, and they work hard to make things for humanity that no one else could make. Almost everything around us didnt exist if programmers werent there to make it, starting from computers, smart phones, softwares, games, televisions, and ending in complicated machines and robots which allow us to easily create everything non programming related, like food, furniture, buildings, and more. if programmers didnt exist, we were still stuck in the 19th century, living in buildings made out of wood and farming for money.

Underground Coders are programmers, usually more successful ones, who wanted to know more than how to use a software someone else made (a programming language) to build other softwares, and turned themselves in to the "dark side". underground coders focus on security in general, and on the ability to reverse a binary file back into a human-readable script form in particular. that is the reason why they are also often called "Reverse Engineers". NOTE THAT UNDERGROUND CODERS ARE NOT ESSENTIALLY HACKERS. many INCA (GameGuard), Nexon, or Microsoft employees are underground coders.

This is not the first time im being called a hacker just because i know a bit more about computers than a large part of the economy. my programmer friends are also usually afriad to say that they are programmers in online games, because people immediately relate it to hacking. I do not understand why should i be ashamed for being a part of this relatively-small but important group, which serves humanity and their needs time after time, for tens of years. Instead of that, humanity should be ashamed for excluding us and calling us hackers, without getting their facts straight (did you know that over 95% of the maplestory so-called-hackers are not underground coders, and are not even mere programmers? this is not just an assumption, i made a research), and without having any evidence, proof, or even a logical reason to think that we are hackers. thats like saying that everyone who has a gun license is a psychopathic murderer, just because he has all the requirements to be one.



This is not a hacking discussion. this thread barely has anything to do with hacking, let alone maplestory hacking. What im trying to understand is the logic behind expelling an old guild made, breaking contact with him, and taking drastic measures such as threatening jr.masters, just because you heard that he goes to hacking forums.
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#2
To avoid getting a bad reputation for the guild. If you're ever interested in going to hacker forums, either keep it hidden, or avoid playing maplestory seriously.
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#3
People are scared to have a hacker in the guild, the minor suspicion could lead that what you experienced. Though I think that was a bit rushed for a year long member... What can I say, have you tried explaining what you just did to Elaniki?
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#4
Well, I'm majoring in Computer Networking, took several Client, Server OS classes. I also learned how to use DOS, etc, blah blah blah. I never took Programming, if I said that, I'd be lying, and someone can go ahead and shoot me. But here's my perspective, most people don't understand that stuff. It's better to hide things than to let them know about it.

One of my friends irl looks at hacking forums, but yet, he does not hack (and yes, he plays MS). I know that because I saw him looking at a forums for it, regardless, I don't treat him any differently, he's still a human. Most people in-game are kids (and you do have to get over this fact, but it's true), and rather.. 'stupid'. They don't understand a lot of things that are computer related. If I were to say 'I can hack through a router with an encrypted password', they'd F6 at me and claim that I was a hacker. Right?

That's why you just gotta ignore them, and at the same time, never let people know these things. I can hack routers, slightly, but that's the most I can do. Most people in my guild doesn't even know what I'm even capable of. So yeah, just move on, I guess. Or try to reason with them. Kids don't understand anything, even adults sometimes can't comprehend the concept of computers.
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#5
I remember Fiel "hacking" files for Heal formulas and stuff or to get data on them. I bet no one would think twice about him hacking them.

You don't need them if they're going to be that ridiculous.
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#6
I visit hacking forums. I like to keep up-to-date on anything that I should be watching out for that could effect me. Just because we visit the sites doesn't mean we should be treated differently. It's just another one of those cases where someone is trying to control someone else. It's pathetic really.
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#7
Sorry to be kinda off-topic, mostly because I don't know much about this stuff, but I don't think jr. masters can expel other jrs. It was possible years ago, and I'm pretty sure it hasn't been changed back.
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#8
I think the jr that expelled is a rl friend of the master, went on master's account, and expelled.

Said it in one of the paragraphs.
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#9
Cyanne Wrote:Sorry to be kinda off-topic, mostly because I don't know much about this stuff, but I don't think jr. masters can expel other jrs. It was possible years ago, and I'm pretty sure it hasn't been changed back.

here is the answer

haha01haha01 Wrote:It all started in a beautiful day. i came back from school, turned on the computer, entered maplestory, and logged in, just to find out that i was mysteriously expelled from Odyssey. Im in Odyssey for almost a year, i have many friends there, and i was not extremely surprised because i already got expelled by mistake once. I contacted one of my Jr friends, and asked him what is this all about. He said that one of the Jrs called Elaniki, who is a real life friend of the master and has his log-in info, decided to expel me and warned the Jrs that if they will invite me back, he will kick them too.
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#10
Just have someone in the guild explain your case to this Elaniki guy. He might not listen to you, but hopefully he'll listen to other people.
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#11
I just started taking a class on programming, and I tell people I'm reading books on it and stuff and my guild hasn't found a problem on it yet, they just assume I'm gonna make a game someday or something. If anyone thinks programmers are hackers just cuz of that they need to just chill. I mean hell, some of these kids might end up majoring in computer science someday. But they don't know that yet.
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#12
Kaasoljoyyx Wrote:I remember Fiel "hacking" files for Heal formulas and stuff or to get data on them. I bet no one would think twice about him hacking them.
Nexon might Rolleyes
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#13
Hacker is a compliment anyway. :f6: Too bad idiots butchered the meaning of the word ever since they lent their codes to the public.
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#14
I'm wondering what the guy that expelled you was doing on a hacker forum...hmm.
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#15
if you never supported hacking, so you never downloaded, uploaded hacks or helped hackers intentionally then i think its totally bs that they expelled you. also this is trace-able since on almost all forums you can track all posts that a certain user made..
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#16
By the way, who would confuse programmers with hackers? Two different things, although hackers are usually programmers. Kind of like rectangles and squares.
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#17
FinalHeart Wrote:By the way, who would confuse programmers with hackers? Two different things, although hackers are usually programmers. Kind of like rectangles and squares.

More like grapes and boats.

But, to me, there is no difference really. They essentially ARE the same thing, but what they DO is different. Even if they can do/are doing the same kind of task.
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#18
Takebacker Wrote:More like grapes and boats.

But, to me, there is no difference really. They essentially ARE the same thing, but what they DO is different. Even if they can do/are doing the same kind of task.

To match your description, grapes and wine would fit better.Redface

Anyway, yeah, they both use coding and stuff like that. Still though, when I think programmer I think video game programmer. When I think hacker, I think the guy that is ruining that same game by editing the code.
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#19
FinalHeart Wrote:To match your description, grapes and wine would fit better.Redface

Anyway, yeah, they both use coding and stuff like that. Still though, when I think programmer I think video game programmer. When I think hacker, I think the guy that is ruining that same game by editing the code.

Hackers can fix things too you know. :f6: Sometimes breaking the game/program/server/whatever is a good thing.
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#20
FinalHeart Wrote:To match your description, grapes and wine would fit better.Redface

Anyway, yeah, they both use coding and stuff like that. Still though, when I think programmer I think video game programmer. When I think hacker, I think the guy that is ruining that same game by editing the code.
A hacker is a programmer since he/she (most likely) needs to know how to program to hack, but a programmer doesnt necessarily know how to hack.
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