Atheism is Indeed A Civil Rights Issue

Would you care to explain your views on this slightly more thoroughly? If not a supernatural being, then what?

Atoms, chance, time. The megaverse has been around for an infinite amount of time and will be around forever. There was never nothing, and never will be. We were merely lucky atoms bonded in the correct manner for life, and that over time our bodies have evolved to this over time. No single being/power can create anything nor destroy it.

NOTHING has been created, ever. That would mean that something came from nothing which isn't plausible.

What I find curious about atheism is that you have this giant universe, we don't even know if it's infinite or what lies beyond it, we don't know for sure what created it, we don't know what's in it, whether we're the only intelligent life. We don't know a lot about our own world, including our own bodies and brain. We don't know how out of nothingness life and intelligent life developed into relative equilibrium.

But we DO know 100% that a great being did NOT create all of it, and we DO know 100% for sure that such a being cannot exist.

Sounds like another religion to me. No empirical proof, just conjecture and faith.

I personally don't get into these arguments because what you believe is up to you. One of my best friends is a bitter atheist, we just don't talk about this stuff. Live and let live; no convincing anyone about this stuff. So, as long as people do not get in my face about my religion, I do not get into theirs in their non-religion.

What I find curious about atheism is that you have this giant universe, we don't even know if it's infinite or what lies beyond it, we don't know for sure what created it, we don't know what's in it, whether we're the only intelligent life. We don't know a lot about our own world, including our own bodies and brain. We don't know how out of nothingness life and intelligent life developed into relative equilibrium.

But we DO know 100% that a great being did NOT create all of it, and we DO know 100% for sure that such a being cannot exist.

Sounds like another religion to me. No empirical proof, just conjecture and faith.

I personally don't get into these arguments because what you believe is up to you. One of my best friends is a bitter atheist, we just don't talk about this stuff. Live and let live; no convincing anyone about this stuff. So, as long as people do not get in my face about my religion, I do not get into theirs in their non-religion.

Why did something have to create it? Can't things just be infinite? I don't think anything ever formed. You cannot create nor destroy matter (Please don't argue with e=mc^). Period. Everything is conserved. So saying things were created goes against this theory. A well backed theory. That to me proves there is no supernatural being/force.

Have a semi-credible argument to back up there is a higher power? I know I am not a PHD or anything, but hey seems reasonable enough to me.

The "universe" could very well be finite. That I cannot really comment on.

Other life? Sure that is plausible as long as the conditions were right. Not like we are that special.

Why did something have to create it? Can't things just be infinite? I don't think anything ever formed. You cannot create nor destroy matter (Please don't argue with e=mc^). Period. Everything is conserved. So saying things were created goes against this theory. A well backed theory. That to me proves there is no supernatural being/force.

Have a semi-credible argument to back up there is a higher power? I know I am not a PHD or anything, but hey seems reasonable enough to me.

The "universe" could very well be finite. That I cannot really comment on.

Other life? Sure that is plausible as long as the conditions were right. Not like we are that special.

This is what you "think." What you "think" is different from you "know" and may well be different than what "is." Nothing you said here is empirical proof of anything. Einstein himself was not "sure" about this stuff.

But I SPECIFICALLY said I did not want to argue this issue, so I am not gonna post here anymore.

Sounds like another religion to me. No empirical proof, just conjecture and faith.

This is why I refuse to identify as atheist, people think it means you believe something.

I follow in the scientific method, which has no room for faith. If it's not testable, it's a useless hypothesis. I discard the idea of God as meaningless, whether it be existence or non-existence.



On the other hand, I'm not ruling out the possibilty that it will become testable in future. It's not right now, and when it is, let me know.

I'm saying: stop saying we and us. Your anger to their beliefs isn't stemmed from your atheism, but from your own misunderstanding of what faith is. 1 + 1 does not = 3, but that does not rely on faith. Faith is strongly believing in something; It doesn't have to have proof that it is real.

1 + 1 = 3, for large values of 1.

But we DO know 100% that a great being did NOT create all of it, and we DO know 100% for sure that such a being cannot exist.

Atheists never said they know. If they do, they're like religious freaks stating they know. (Not saying any is better)

And, you know, Einstein believed in a higher power.

Actually, both sides are correct if this new theory is true.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20...?full=true

If the Universe was a giant hologram...

in conclusion:

Atheism is a new religion.

Atheism is NOT Indeed A Civil Rights Issue, rather an political party issue. or If atheism is a Civil rights issue, then in our current society Christianity is the more persecuted of the two and it needs more equality.

in conclusion:

Atheism is a new religion.

Atheism is NOT Indeed A Civil Rights Issue, rather an political party issue. or If atheism is a Civil rights issue, then in our current society Christianity is the more persecuted of the two and it needs more equality.

Chrisitianity? Prosecuted? This hasn't really happened since Roman times. There have been small cases, but as always there is awlays an exception.

How in the world is Christianity persecuted?

This hasn't really happened since Roman times.

Not Exactly.

From Wikipedia:

The Soviet Union was the first state to have as an ideological objective the elimination of religion. Toward that end, the Communist regime confiscated church property, ridiculed religion, harassed believers, and propagated atheism in the schools. Actions toward particular religions, however, were determined by State interests, and most organized religions were never outlawed.

Some actions against Orthodox priests and believers along with execution included torture being sent to prison camps, labour camps or mental hospitals.[11][12][13][14] Many Orthodox (along with peoples of other faiths) were also subjected to psychological punishment or torture and mind control experimentation in order to force them give up their religious convictions (see Punitive psychiatry in the Soviet Union). [12][13][15][16]

It is estimated the some 20 million Christians (18 million Orthodox, 2 million Roman Catholic) died or were interned in gulags under the Soviet regime 2.7 million martyred under Stalin.[17]

Practicing Orthodox Christians were restricted from prominent careers and membership in communist organizations (the party, the Komsomol). Anti-religious pro da was openly sponsored and encouraged by the government, which the Church was not given an opportunity to publicly respond to. The government youth organization, the Komsomol, encouraged its members to vandalize Orthodox Churches and harass worshipers. Seminaries were closed down, and the church was restricted from using the press.

I can give specific examples if needed.

...but as always there is awlays an exception.

They have been prosecuted, yes, but not on that large of a scale for the most part. The Soviet Union was against ALL religions anyways not just Christians.

They have been prosecuted, yes, but not on that large of a scale for the most part. The Soviet Union was against ALL religions anyways not just Christians.

And what about the persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses during the Holocaust?

I would say describing a period where 18 million protestants and two million protestants were either jailed or imprisoned as an "exception" or on a "small scale" is a bit of an understatement. (And the Soviet methods of punishing the faithful, including inprisonment and forced labor in gulags, were just as atrocious as the feeding Christians to the lions in Rome.)By your reasoning you will have to call the spanish inquisition "a small scale exception" in the record of persecution committed by the church as well. More christians were persecuted in the Soviet Union than nonbeleivers that were persecuted in the spanish inquistion.

And what about the persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses during the Holocaust?

I never thought of them. I NEVER hear about them.

I would say describing a period where 18 million protestants and two million protestants were either jailed or imprisoned as an "exception" or on a "small scale" is a bit of an understatement. (And the Soviet methods of punishing the faithful, including inprisonment and forced labor in gulags, were just as atrocious as the feeding Christians to the lions in Rome.)By your reasoning you will have to call the spanish inquisition "a small scale exception" in the record of persecution committed by the church as well. More christians were persecuted in the Soviet Union than nonbeleivers that were persecuted in the spanish inquistion.

Everyone was prosecuted! Not just Christians is what I am saying.

Everyone was prosecuted! Not just Christians is what I am saying.

True, but not relevant. Just because other groups were persecuted does not negate the fact that Christians were persecuted. And Christains were specifically targeted because of their faith (citations are in the wiki article I posted.)

along with that. in the media you can see far more ridicule of christians than any other 'religion.' in fact anything non-christian is idolize one can argue.

buddism/hinduism->trendy/hip (not that they're the same-rather they have the same reactions)
muslim->to be understood/ tolerated
atheism->the path to a new era of learning / science
satanism/witchcraft->forbidden/exotic/fun

judaism-> neutral/ people neither talk bad or good about it =T.

christianity-> supernatural/ unscientific/ dorkish/ prude/ intolerant/ liars/ ignorant/ scammers/ to be enlightened.

not all persecution has to be physical as hitting, jailings, or execution (though christians do go through that). what people gather on religious topics is usually, if not completely, based of media - movies, news, tv. <--this is evidently more so in US actually than other 'tolerant' nations.

along with that. in the media you can see far more ridicule of christians than any other 'religion.' in fact anything non-christian is idolize one can argue.

buddism/hinduism->trendy/hip (not that they're the same-rather they have the same reactions)
muslim->to be understood/ tolerated
atheism->the path to a new era of learning / science
satanism/witchcraft->forbidden/exotic/fun

judaism-> neutral/ people neither talk bad or good about it =T.

christianity-> supernatural/ unscientific/ dorkish/ prude/ intolerant/ liars/ ignorant/ scammers/ to be enlightened.

not all persecution has to be physical as hitting, jailings, or execution (though christians do go through that). what people gather on religious topics is usually, if not completely, based of media - movies, news, tv. <--this is evidently more so in US actually than other 'tolerant' nations.

Say what? Judaism is probably more ridiculed than Christians. There are so many sterotypes for Jewish people.

Some examples:
You are a "Jew" if you are stingy.
If you have a big nose people say you have a "Jew" nose.
Like bagels? You must be Jewish!
Etc.

Although I do have to agree with some of these other points. People defianately poke fun at all religions.

EDIT: Scientology is the most perseccuted religion in my opinion. To most it is just a big joke. We may also add Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses to that. Those two are pretty ridiculed also.

Atheism is NOT Indeed A Civil Rights Issue, rather an political party issue. or If atheism is a Civil rights issue, then in our current society Christianity is the more persecuted of the two and it needs more equality.

so anyway. im glad we all quickly agreed with this, i hope we all learn to be more sensitive when thinking about equality.

@tehmatt: i do not know if your examples are as "serious." if anything its viewed in a light-hearted manner (thats why i said its neutral). and if the jewish community as a whole accepts it, how much harm is it to them? spaceballs anyone? also, ever since the holocaust happened (which coincidentally was the last time the media on a public scaled persecuted them), the media as a whole doesn't like to portray jewish people in a negative light.

on the other hand- christians would never portray themselves in the manner i spoke about (unless it was historical).

Sometimes the religion itself isn't teaching too many horrid values (with the exception of slavery and some discrimination), however, people interpret religion in a way that makes it seem as if the religion wants all homosexuals to die.

For example, The Bible states that homosexuality is a sin. I disagree with that, but is what it states. However, as far as I know, it says nowhere that homosexuals should be persecuted. In fact, The Bible does say repeatedly, just in different terms to respect your neighbors (in general terms, this includes coveting your neighbor's goods and all that), so they obviously don't want you to attack homosexuals. Unfortunately, all the religious fanatics out there interpret it just right out wrong and think that the homosexuals themselves are evil people, and commit hate crimes against them, sometimes killing them (against one of the Ten Commandments ironically).

The Bible obviously has some contradictions in it however. I remember someone posting earlier a quote that states that slavery is okay (sorry for forgetting who you are), which obviously goes against respecting your neighbor.

Back to the religious fanatics and The Bible though. Most religious fanatics think that everything in The Bible actually happened, which isn't the way they should read it. They should read it for (some of) the values, not learning how some guy magically rose from the dead. Most of the story stuff in there thrown around the values are mainly to keep people from just randomly killing people, simply so they don't get smited by some God that may or may not exist. It's similar to government. What's the point of having laws if you have no one to carry them out and enforce them? Think of it as the Ten Commandments being the laws and God being the police.