Patch: Tespia 1.2.190

Can anyone get any data on Boomerang Step's reduced delay?

- Did they remove all delay for Bstep?
- Did they remove half the delay for Bstep? (1x Bstep/1x SB combo's)
- Did they remove just a ultra little delay for Bstep (nothing changes)

Can anyone in kMST confirm any changes to Bstep? It's so dead calm here in this thread... :o

Can anyone get any data on Boomerang Step's reduced delay?

- Did they remove all delay for Bstep?
- Did they remove half the delay for Bstep? (1x Bstep/1x SB combo's)
- Did they remove just a ultra little delay for Bstep (nothing changes)

Can anyone in kMST confirm any changes to Bstep? It's so dead calm here in this thread... :o

I've been wanting to see this data too.


Im guessing its a half delay so we can do Bstep>SB>Bstep.

A total delay removal would be pretty overpowered since Bstep has invincibility frames.

Iono where, but someone said the reduced delay was very very minor, nothing quite noticeable.

I've been wanting to see this data too.


Im guessing its a half delay so we can do Bstep>SB>Bstep.

A total delay removal would be pretty overpowered since Bstep has invincibility frames.

You mean like Demolition? Noone complained about that being near godmode for 50%~80% of the time (depending on party).

They could just remove -some- of the invincibility frames from bstep if they want to keep it away from 100% godmode all the time.
It's not that hard... that is, when you're a professional game programmer...

Iono where, but someone said the reduced delay was very very minor, nothing quite noticeable.

Hmz yeah I have a feeling they made anothing pure Nexon phail out of this "rebalance"... since I hear not 1 prositive confimation anywhere... :X

Actually it's Nexon saying: "Lulz gtfo Shads, w3 R t3h N!ghtLurd F@nboyz h3r3 in K0r3@, y0u f@ilz!"
That is, if this was a serious attempt from Nexon to boost Shadowers even a TINY bit in DPM at bosses other them mushmom.... -.-

Right now a Shad+SE+Onyx is at 45% of the bossing power of a NL+SE+Onyx...
I can't see how that is fair in -ANY- way... it's not even 50%, nor 60% or 70%, let alone 80%... it's a frickin 45%... (!!!)...

Really Nexon, wtp are you doing over there? Are you really -that- unprofessional? But I guess we all know the answer to that question... -.-

People don't give a pomegranate about demolition because you can only use it 50% of the time at best. You can use yours at will, which is why people would peach.

I think they don't give a pineapple only because shadowers are one of the best balanced classes in the game, and second to none at avoiding attacks. You can boss well, you can train well, you can mob AND hit kill single targets well. Not many other classes can do all the things a shadower can do, and they certainly can't kill pianus without getting hit once. xD

:/

People don't give a pomegranate about demolition because you can only use it 50% of the time at best. You can use yours at will, which is why people would peach.

We can use Bstep 33% of the time attacking because it's so extreme slow (bstep=33%, sb=33%, sb = 33%).

Just 3 Bucs in 1 party = 70% of the time Demolition, 3 Shads in 1 party = -STILL- 33% of the time Bstep...

So yeah, we can use bstep at will, 33% of the time... -.-

I think they don't give a pineapple only because shadowers are one of the best balanced classes in the game, and second to none at avoiding attacks. You can boss well, you can train well, you can mob AND hit kill single targets well. Not many other classes can do all the things a shadower can do, and they certainly can't kill pianus without getting hit once. xD

- A NL with Avenger + Venom kills faster then a Shadower with Bstep, has near the same avoid rate, is ranged (no touching while killing) and still does more then twice the damage of a Shad at bosses, so dont use the avoid argument please.
- We can boss well? Yeah Papulatus + all mini bosses... yay... that's all... -.-
- And Pianus is always taken over by Hackers, so I removed that boss from Maple... And when it's not taken over by hackers, and we're killing it, some NL enters and ks-es your pianus at 2x your speed, ignoring you totally, and when it's killed they FJ with their pet autoloot to loot all your drops.... yay... at least we didn't use much pots... we only wasted 30mins of our lives...

Really Nexon, wtp are you doing over there? Are you really -that- unprofessional? But I guess we all know the answer to that question... -.-

That statement has merit due to much of their mishaps and lack of care which is obvious in GMS. But are you seriously calling Nexon "unprofessional" because they're choosing to make a character the way they want for their game? Honestly? They're "unprofessional" because they don't want Shadowers being equal to Night Lords in the amount of DPM they put out?

*notices it's Devil*

Oh.

---

I don't understand why all classes have to be equal in every regard (or just equal in DPM, especially). If all classes can do a crapton of damage to any boss, what would be the point of different classes... People even want Bishops to be great attackers during bosses. Come on. Support classes are support classes are support classes.

An argument I will FULLY support is that Nexon needs to create more instances where all the different classes can cooperate and be required in some way or another. As it is, the main call for Shadowers right now is HT (and that's at most one really welcomed per run). Mages have no great calling for anything they can do besides selling leech. If Nexon designed several things that created a popular need for all classes in many different bosses, then this game would be much better.

Raising the damage of classes is all fine and dandy, but it's not a balancing factor at all in my eyes. We already have all the attacker classes we need. Nexon needs to start doing some REAL improvements and design new content that includes all the different classes for the uniqueness they can demonstrate. The only part of these skill buffs I'm really happy about are the Paladin buffs (a move in the right direction, but much more is needed) and the DrK Berserk buff (skill needs work). Many of the other buffs are nice, but they weren't needed. The change to MM is just going to fulfill egos, create new e-pride and more dramatic flame wars. In my eyes, BM and MM are the exact same thing now. Both very dominant attacker classes that can provide SE. One uses Hurricane, the other uses Strafe + Snipe. That's the only difference that's even apparent now... Nexon should have improved HOW and WHERE Snipe can be used, not just pimp it. Why not create more content that requires or greatly favors Snipe somehow? Why not make the classes shine for their differences rather than making us all do the same damage. I don't get it.

My points:

Stop changing skills.
Start creating content that brings everyone together in their own, unique way.
Devil needs to stop crying all the time.

We can use Bstep 33% of the time attacking because it's so extreme slow (bstep=33%, sb=33%, sb = 33%).

Just 3 Bucs in 1 party = 70% of the time Demolition, 3 Shads in 1 party = -STILL- 33% of the time Bstep...

So yeah, we can use bstep at will, 33% of the time... -.-

- A NL with Avenger + Venom kills faster then a Shadower with Bstep, has near the same avoid rate, is ranged (no touching while killing) and still does more then twice the damage of a Shad at bosses, so dont use the avoid argument please.
- We can boss well? Yeah Papulatus + all mini bosses... yay... that's all... -.-
- And Pianus is always taken over by Hackers, so I removed that boss from Maple... And when it's not taken over by hackers, and we're killing it, some NL enters and ks-es your pianus at 2x your speed, ignoring you totally, and when it's killed they FJ with their pet autoloot to loot all your drops.... yay... at least we didn't use much pots... we only wasted 30mins of our lives...

Notice how i said at will, not 100% of the time. You can control when the attack misses you. Buccaneers cannot. Though their amount of frames makes it so we rarely get hit either way, but still, again, 50% of the time. Quit pulling that X buccs in a party = XX% of demo. It should just be 1 bucc vs. 1 shadower, and you're tripling the buccs numbers. >____>

Notice how i didn't say NLs. I said it in relation to every other class in the game. Their avoid is still lower, and we're still better in mobs. Can a NL not suck at CGs? The odds are against him unless he fucking goes in the damn mob and tanks the hits hoping not to get raped by the 5k hits. The shadower wins.

@ bosses: By bossing well i meant (once again in relation to every other class) that you don't completely suck like, for example, mages. Off-topic i suppose, but to this day i've never seen a mage solo zak. It's probably been done, but meh.

Hackers and KSing NLs is a stupid point to bring up. o_o It's completely variable. >___> Pianus was just a random example anyway. Substitute it with most bosses.

That statement has merit due to much of their mishaps and lack of care which is obvious in GMS. But are you seriously calling Nexon "unprofessional" because they're choosing to make a character the way they want for their game? Honestly? They're "unprofessional" because they don't want Shadowers being equal to Night Lords in the amount of DPM they put out?

There's no need to be totally equal, but it would be nice if all (attacking) classes were at -least- in 20%~30% of their damage ranges (this also goes for Archmages in bossing damage)... This is not the case, not by far...

*notices it's Devil* - Oh.

Yeah it's me!

I don't understand why all classes have to be equal in every regard (or just equal in DPM, especially). If all classes can do a crapton of damage to any boss, what would be the point of different classes... People even want Bishops to be great attackers during bosses. Come on. Support classes are support classes are support classes.

Again, if Shadowers were like on 70% of Hero/NL damage then we would be happy... Now it's just... offscale inbalanced...

Devil needs to stop crying all the time.

I rather call it analyzing facts...

Notice how i said at will, not 100% of the time. You can control when the attack misses you. Buccaneers cannot. Though their amount of frames makes it so we rarely get hit either way, but still, again, 50% of the time. Quit pulling that X buccs in a party = XX% of demo. It should just be 1 bucc vs. 1 shadower, and you're tripling the buccs numbers. >____>

That's not correct, Bucs -can- choose to use a combination of Shockwave + timed Demolition to avoid all attacks, I tried it, and it worked very good. And I forgot to mention that they also have Barrage that will give them some more timed godmode skills. Really you should try it sometime, Demolition/Barrage/Bstep can be use almost the same way to avoid attacks.

Notice how i didn't say NLs. I said it in relation to every other class in the game. Their avoid is still lower, and we're still better in mobs. Can a NL not suck at CGs? The odds are against him unless he pineappleing goes in the damn mob and tanks the hits hoping not to get raped by the 5k hits. The shadower wins.

That's only at CG's, only 1 map in maple... Noone trains there really, everyone is at skele's and noone get's 1hit killed there beyond lvl 130.

@ bosses: By bossing well i meant (once again in relation to every other class) that you don't completely suck like, for example, mages. Off-topic i suppose, but to this day i've never seen a mage solo zak. It's probably been done, but meh.

No we don't suck at bosses, it's just that our DPM is too low... that's all. That's why we need just a little DPM boost, just to do some "OK" damage...

Hackers and KSing NLs is a stupid point to bring up. o_o It's completely variable. >___> Pianus was just a random example anyway. Substitute it with most bosses.

Well there aren't that much -other- Bosses in gMS maple Shadowers can do... Pap, Pia [hackers], HH [crap exp], Manon [crap exp], Griffey [crap exp], and weak Mini Bosses [lol exp...], that's it...

That's not correct, Bucs -can- choose to use a combination of Shockwave + timed Demolition to avoid all attacks, I tried it, and it worked very good. And I forgot to mention that they also have Barrage that will give them some more timed godmode skills. Really you should try it sometime, Demolition/Barrage/Bstep can be use almost the same way to avoid attacks.

Crud. Got me with barrage. Forgot about that. :/

That's only at CG's, only 1 map in maple... Noone trains there really, everyone is at skele's and noone get's 1hit killed there beyond lvl 130.

The 1 map that's amazing. Skeles almost never mob, and their HP is actually fairly low to tell who kills faster. It's the dense high HP mobs where shadowers will rape them. Himes are another pretty good example i guess.

No we don't suck at bosses, it's just that our DPM is too low... that's all. That's why we need just a little DPM boost, just to do some "OK" damage...

I would kill for their overall avoidability ownage though. T.T

Well there aren't that much -other- Bosses in gMS maple Shadowers can do... Pap, Pia [hackers], HH [crap exp], Manon [crap exp], Griffey [crap exp], and weak Mini Bosses [lol exp...], that's it...

Exp? It's all about the drops dude. :f6: What about BF? It's really easy on a shadower. o_o At least it was for me using assassinate. :/ It's probably the only boss where you kill it for exp too.

Why not create more content that requires or greatly favors Snipe somehow?

1m HP non-boss summon that does 15k touch anyone? Insta kill with snipe.

Foreword: I'm almost completely satisfied with the training aspect of this game. Any class can level just fine if the player has dedication. That's stupid to argue, so I'm not going to waste my time. I hope others stop being whiners and agree, at least for now.

I'm fully aware of the Genesis, Blizz and Meteo offset. I strongly believe they should have a cooldown, but that's all I would suggest in the training department. Classes should be able to level about equally, which MS does pretty close to correct. The ultimates create a staggering imbalance for the magic class (and those who party them).

Okay, just throwing my opinion on that matter out there. I don't wish to discuss that subject with this post.

---

There's no need to be totally equal, but it would be nice if all (attacking) classes were at -least- in 20%~30% of their damage ranges (this also goes for Archmages in bossing damage)... This is not the case, not by far...

Yeah it's me!

Again, if Shadowers were like on 70% of Hero/NL damage then we would be happy... Now it's just... offscale inbalanced...

I rather call it analyzing facts...

In a typical, non-training setting:

Attacker classes:
Hero
Bowmaster
Night Lord

Support classes:
Bishop
Dark Knight
Buccaneer

Rarely-utilized:
Paladin
I/L Arch Mage
F/P Arch Mage
Shadower
Marksman
Corsair

Note: Obviously Corsair would be an Attacker. And of course Marksman's situation will change them to Attacker with their upcoming buff. There's almost always at least one Shadower in many HT runs, but that's not near enough to make them significant in this discussion.

I separated them by their most helpful role in the typical boss setting. Obviously it could be argued forever what's correct, but there isn't really a set right or wrong in this case. The way Nexon has designed their classes, that's what they are used for and welcomed for. Obviously the bowmen have SE which makes them arguably support. Obviously there's other factors to be nitpicked, too, like it's not only Heroes' damage that makes them wanted, but their functionality. And obviously DrKs, Bucs and Shads can provide significant damage, as well. But I'm sure anyone with an open-mind to and knowledge about this topic can see how I divided them.

With that in mind, I feel the Rarely-utilized category should disappear. I want Nexon to create very new content that brings everyone up to a level of being seen on nearly every boss run. Understand what I just said: I don't want all classes in bosses because they're all doing ELITE damage. I want all classes in bosses because they are needed in some way, shape or form - something that makes it a total team effort. The classes aren't designed bad at all. The content of MS, however, is severely lacking. That's my main complaint about this game.

Paladins, Shadowers and Mages simply need content that makes them just as popular as every other class. Corsair's situation might change in time (once there's more well-integrated ones). And Marksman have been made into a Bowmaster mirror, so they shouldn't have any problems becoming mainstream attacker once their buff and widespread knowledge of their new DPM are present in GMS.

I strongly wish Nexon would work on creating MANY new areas and bosses (for new or existing areas) that would work WITH the unique skills of the Rarely-utilized classes. For a few examples, something that requires Smokescreen. Something that requires an element being used (would help both Paladins and Mages) or something else that could play on Heaven's Hammer or Mages many other support skills. Just include things like that for a mere phase or two of a battle, and it'd force all classes to work together to reach the end.

Yes, I know many current bosses are built way too unfair, in that they strongly favor certain classes over others. I dislike that very much. It's not a character flaw, it's a flaw in how the boss was designed. If Nexon insists on creating more unfair bosses, then they need to create some that Paladins, Mages and Shadowers control.

The characters are designed how they are...that's just the way MS is. A game should work around and embrace all of the classes. People need to start complaining about Nexon's lack of quality, equally including (or "fair") content. STOP complaining about e-pride, selfish based things. Yes, even you, Mr. "Fact-analyzer" Devil. Almost all of your complaints are stemmed from your crushed ego that Shadowers can't perform like Night Lords. Stop trying to defend your whiny complaints all over this forum, which continually bash other classes and Nexon. You're not analyzing facts. Face it.

You're arguing with Devil. The Anti-Shadower person who thinks Nexon is still in "HermitStory" phase, even though we've all moved onto BishopStory.

@ the requiring Smokescreen thing: It would work if Smokescreen didn't have such a ridiculous cooldown though. It'd be cool if it was changed into a trap that reduced damage by 75% or something and could be activated half the time. Then two Shadowers could keep a party alive through a powerful hit.

No thanks. I like my Smokescreen the way it is.

You're arguing with Devil. The Anti-Shadower person who thinks Nexon is still in "HermitStory" phase, even though we've all moved onto BishopStory.

I realized long ago. Discussing and arguing over something I have a considerably strong view on is always great fun for me. Devil presents many easy opportunities to do so because he's consistently ignorant or trolling.

@ the requiring Smokescreen thing: It would work if Smokescreen didn't have such a ridiculous cooldown though. It'd be cool if it was changed into a trap that reduced damage by 75% or something and could be activated half the time. Then two Shadowers could keep a party alive through a powerful hit.

Whatever would work. I think the skills are all excellent or acceptable as they are. I want content that works with the skills. I probably wouldn't be an excellent MS content designer, but my posts have just been to get ideas and discussion of the matter rolling. I wish people would get off the whole class elitism thing and start thinking about how to get all the classes Nexon designed working together, without resorting to simple skill buff after skill buff.

I realized long ago. Discussing and arguing over something I have a considerably strong view on is always great fun for me. Devil presents many easy opportunities to do so because he's consistently ignorant or trolling.



Whatever would work. I think the skills are all excellent or acceptable as they are. I want content that works with the skills. I probably wouldn't be an excellent MS content designer, but my posts have just been to get ideas and discussion of the matter rolling. I wish people would get off the whole class elitism thing and start thinking about how to get all the classes Nexon designed working together, without resorting to simple skill buff after skill buff.

I believe there was a massive thread not too long ago either about or for whatever reason filled with posts of people offering ideas on how bosses should be. Pretty much everyone just thought of epic fights (underwater was one) where it favored tactics instead of firepower as well as favoring mages/"underdog" classes.

I believe there was a massive thread not too long ago either about or for whatever reason filled with posts of people offering ideas on how bosses should be. Pretty much everyone just thought of epic fights (underwater was one) where it favored tactics instead of firepower as well as favoring mages/"underdog" classes.

Yes, I remember it. It was a spin-off from another thread that starting discussing that. It's definitely a step in the right direction, and I love to see it. I know at times I've strayed from that cause, too, because I realize there's already a lot of very divided content in MS. Not gonna lie and say I don't love having certain bosses BMs can dominant. I wish every class had a boss they could control and definitely bosses/areas that require everyone together, so that there wouldn't be so much class exclusion.

That's not correct, Bucs -can- choose to use a combination of Shockwave + timed Demolition to avoid all attacks, I tried it, and it worked very good. And I forgot to mention that they also have Barrage that will give them some more timed godmode skills. Really you should try it sometime, Demolition/Barrage/Bstep can be use almost the same way to avoid attacks.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Shockwave does not have invincible frames. Furthermore, I tend to get bi'tchslapped by a monster more when I use Demo over Barrage. You want broken? Combine Barrage with Corkscrew Blow. If done correctly it's perma-godmode.
Stop whining.

I think that some new content favoring bosses is a good idea. Pink Bean sort of helps this, since the only way to do 100% of your damage against that little pink peach is if you are using lightning or poison. Of course, this still doesn't give AMs/ paladins as high DPS as NLs, but it's a start towards making those classes useful.

However, I still think Mage's single target DPS needs to be increased. Even if at bosses they made it so a phase was completely immune to physical attacks, it would still take forever for AMs to take it down compared to NLs since their DPS is considerably lower.

What I'd like to see for the AM problem is for magicians to become more like the weapon attack classes. By this I mean a damage formula in which MA and int is different, a cut on Blizz/Meteo/Geneses (I think a cooldown for these attacks would be good like 7 seconds after the animation is done), and better single target DPS. I made a mage because the idea of power from smarts is cool to me, and that doesn't mean I just want to be a training whore who just does some of the worst single target DPS in the game.

Essentially what I want is a new magic damage formula, stronger single target attacks, and a less powerful ultimate.

No we don't suck at bosses, it's just that our DPM is too low...

Wait, there's a difference?