A Song of Ice and Mafia TOWN WINS

I did not claim that dragonglass was a weakness - you're confusing Others with Wights. I am a wight, not an Other. I am vulnerable to fire, hence my suspicion of Stannis's group (and their association with Melisandre). Jon Snow is not against me either - he is my Lord Commander, as I am a brother of the watch. Where the hell are you getting these things that I most certainly did not say?

When you don't deny the multiple assumptions that you are a white walker even after admitting that you're lying, I'm going to safely assume that that's the case.

You called out Luv yesterday for their blatant lies but now almost every post you've made today has been a lie. Ever heard of the term LaL?

White walkers reanimate the dead to become wights. And either way I cannot actually fathom how that's town and I'm baffled that Shidoshi's going along with it. Wights are quite literally mindless servants of white walkers. And whether or not you're a white walker or a wight I cannot see how that's town in the slightest in this setup. Coldhands just seems far too convenient
Even if they are truly lynch immune, we just offed 2 mafia at once and a day without a kill still helps the town more than scum.

Edit: And again the point remains that a near invincible wight that can only die if the mafia burns him makes 0 sense as town.

​[vote]MasPan

When you don't deny the multiple assumptions that you are a white walker even after admitting that you're lying, I'm going to safely assume that that's the case.

You called out Luv yesterday for their blatant lies but now almost every post you've made today has been a lie.

White walkers reanimate the dead to become wights. And either way I cannot actually fathom how that's town and I'm baffled that Shidoshi's going along with it. Wights are quite literally mindless servants of white walkers. And whether or not you're a white walker or a wight I cannot see how that's town in the slightest.
Even if they are truly lynch immune, we just offed 2 mafia at once and a day without a kill still helps the town more than scum.

​[vote]MasPan

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White walkers cannot cross the wall, I assumed anyone who would know enough about the series to know what they are would have known that as well, which would make it obvious that I could not be one. I apparently gave people too much credit in that regard. I am a wight, not a walker. I am a member of the watch, I abandoned my duties when alive and was sealed into the wall as punishment. Upon reanimation I've been chained to the wall - if you think about it, that screws any wildlings who try to climb over entirely, while fellow members of the watch can simply stay away from where I'm chained. The fact that I can even speak should be an indicator that I am not a mindless corpse and am something closer to Coldhands in practice.

I have no reason nor interest in harming the Night's Watch. I also find it incredibly ironic that you call me out for lies when every post YOU have made is to twist or exaggerate my statements into something else entirely. It's been strawman after strawman from you. I've come completely clean about my power and role, which I was afraid to do because of exactly what happened - "oh pomegranate undead kill it with fire"

If you want to waste the day lynching me, fine, but it's throwing away the advantage we've accrued by Kyra's amazing kill and the failure of the mafia to kill me last night. I'm here to sound the horn, which I assume to mean there's a walker invasion incoming (especially given that I've reanimated, which should only happen if there is an Other nearby) but could mean reinforcements from the Wildlings climbing the wall. At any rate, it's a waste of time.

-Edit to address edit-

Edit: And again the point remains that a near invincible wight that can only die if the mafia burns him makes 0 sense as town.

Considering the wildlings were the only ones burning corpses for a long while (because the watch forgot their true purpose), how does this not make sense?

-Final Edit-
If we were a LaL meta, Holypie would've been killed several times over in the past few mafia games for his crazy doctor/detective lies. It either applies or it doesn't, you don't get to pick and choose. [/COLOR]

Given all of the information presented, I would suggest possible going after someone who isn't MasPan or yoshi. It is pointless to just "waste" a day for curiosity's sake.

I often go with the same logic as Meta-with a "smart" mafia. They can often see more of the game than the town players as go quiet when needed and don't usually target people who vote for them for the same reason MasPan is going after yoshi. In all honesty, I feel like the mafia want us to waste a day with MasPan and if he dies, so be it. I do feel like MasPan's ability is a bit strong, but there probably is something he isn't telling us. Regardless, I see more of a neutral than a mafia there. As for yoshi, his "blocked" ability on night 1 is strange, since no one else seemed to be blocked on night 2. yoshi's "block" could also have been a result of the target he chose. Regardless, losing a watcher type role and a (powered?) stump just doesn't make sense for the town at this point. Therefore, I do think perhaps looking at other people would make sense.

At this point, I am in the same boat with Shidoshi in terms of suspicious targets. I honestly don't trust VerrKol and (to a lesser extent) Salguod. Their waste a day attitude just doesn't sit right with me, and VerrKol's constant obsession with Shidoshi just seems strange given there are other who are just as suspicious. I am not sure what to make of Olsi yet. I am not sure if he is a target or a mafia.

At this point, with the MasPan/yoshi drama aside, I will [vote] [MENTION=8732]VerrKol[/MENTION];.

Just a side note, I could have missed roleclaims and such; so if I am suspicious of someone who I shouldn't be tell me.

VerrKol made the somewhat dramatic, albeit correct point that we didn't really have a way of confirming Shidoshi without possibly hurting the town in the process.
Today: Best case scenario, we eliminate scum. Worst case scenario, we mislynch a townie. Barring that, we come out this day with a net total of 0 deaths, and prove Mas' lynchproof-ness, and get an entire extra night for our power roles to gain information/do whatever it is they do. Unless we pineapple up, we come out ahead no matter what. We can at the very least confirm that Mas is lynchproof (not town) without hurting the town in the process. I'm not risking a near invincible third party skating by the rest of the game.

I am a wight, not a walker. I am a member of the watch,
I have no reason nor interest in harming the Night's Watch.

Half of your argument here is "I AM NOT SCUM I AM TOWN" with convenient and mostly arbitrary flavor added in. Which I have only seen done by Luv the past few games in their very, very desperate attempts at reconciliation.

Upon reanimation I've been chained to the wall - if you think about it, that screws any wildlings who try to climb over entirely, while fellow members of the watch can simply stay away from where I'm chained. The fact that I can even speak should be an indicator that I am not a mindless corpse and am something closer to Coldhands in practice.

This has literally nothing to do with the actual game at hand. "I'm helping the game's lore behind the scenes. My role conveniently places me in a position of power where my status proves I'm town." and "If I were undead I wouldn't be playing this game!" Neither of those are an actual argument towards anything.

White walkers cannot cross the wall, I assumed anyone who would know enough about the series to know what they are would have known that as well, which would make it obvious that I could not be one. I apparently gave people too much credit in that regard.I abandoned my duties when alive and was sealed into the wall as punishment.

More lore that doesn't really have much to do with a made-up game of mafia.

I also find it incredibly ironic that you call me out for lies when every post YOU have made is to twist or exaggerate my statements into something else entirely. It's been strawman after strawman from you.

Half of your responses towards "twisting your words" have been ignoring 90% of the rest of my points for the sake of pointing out a hyperbole, a slight error in my lore knowledge, or something I misconceived/assumed because your posts haven't exactly been filled with clarity.

I've come completely clean about my power and role, which I was afraid to do because of exactly what happened - "oh pomegranate undead kill it with fire"

You've come completely clean after about 7 posts of bullpomegranate, after which you continued bullpomegranateting until you came clean AGAIN. All because you were afraid. And yet this might not have gotten as far as it had if it HADN'T escalated to that point.

If you want to waste the day lynching me, fine, but it's throwing away the advantage we've accrued by Kyra's amazing kill and the failure of the mafia to kill me last night. I'm here to sound the horn, which I assume to mean there's a walker invasion incoming (especially given that I've reanimated, which should only happen if there is an Other nearby) but could mean reinforcements from the Wildlings climbing the wall. At any rate, it's a waste of time.

See: first point. You're trying to instill that there's a necessity for a lynch based on greed alone. We just got 2 relatively easy kills on the mafia. This does not mean that we are suddenly slated to get more. Your argument there for lynching me is not to lynch you because you claim you can't be lynched. Oh yeah I can't be lynched either. Don't waste the day lynching me because why would we waste time lynching someone that's lynchproof. Oh and everyone else is lynchproof too. Don't waste time lynching them.
We have a free day. Mislynching a townie is worse than testing someone's claimed unlynchable-ness. More information > less.

-Final Edit-
If we were a LaL meta, Holypie would've been killed several times over in the past few mafia games for his crazy doctor/detective lies. It either applies or it doesn't, you don't get to pick and choose.

Except pie didn't continue to lie multiple times over after just calling someone out on their suspicious "blatant lies." Pie had a few apples in his LaL basket, you have an orchard.


And just saying:
Who wins in the battle of wildlings vs knight's watch? The undead.

I gotta say that Yoshi is making a far better case than Mas is. Plus I feel like it is possible that if we have an even night doctor that Mas could easily be mafia trying to lure them out since they managed to protect whoever mafia tried to kill last night.


[Vote]MasPan

Given all of the information presented, I would suggest possible going after someone who isn't MasPan or yoshi. It is pointless to just "waste" a day for curiosity's sake.

I often go with the same logic as Meta-with a "smart" mafia. They can often see more of the game than the town players as go quiet when needed and don't usually target people who vote for them for the same reason MasPan is going after yoshi. In all honesty, I feel like the mafia want us to waste a day with MasPan and if he dies, so be it. I do feel like MasPan's ability is a bit strong, but there probably is something he isn't telling us. Regardless, I see more of a neutral than a mafia there. As for yoshi, his "blocked" ability on night 1 is strange, since no one else seemed to be blocked on night 2. yoshi's "block" could also have been a result of the target he chose. Regardless, losing a watcher type role and a (powered?) stump just doesn't make sense for the town at this point. Therefore, I do think perhaps looking at other people would make sense.

At this point, I am in the same boat with Shidoshi in terms of suspicious targets. I honestly don't trust VerrKol and (to a lesser extent) Salguod. Their waste a day attitude just doesn't sit right with me, and VerrKol's constant obsession with Shidoshi just seems strange given there are other who are just as suspicious. I am not sure what to make of Olsi yet. I am not sure if he is a target or a mafia.

At this point, with the MasPan/yoshi drama aside, I will [vote] VerrKol;.

Just a side note, I could have missed roleclaims and such; so if I am suspicious of someone who I shouldn't be tell me.

It's only a waste if he's actually telling the truth. He's claim is outlandish enough that I don't believe him. It doesn't fit the flavor or meta for this mafia game. So far we've seen several slightly underpowered roles then MasPan comes out with an incredibly powerful claim where he is not only lynch and night kill immune but supposedly instrumental to warning us of wilding/white walker attacks. Does this not strike you as odd?

What obsession lol? I barely did more than remind people not to forget about him in my post yesterday.

I'm inclined to agree with [Vote] MasPan.

Even if the chained to the wall deal was true, which I'm not so sure I believe, as a wight you would still be borderline mindless. It doesn't really make all that much sense to me.

If he is an Other, I can see him being kill-proof, but not lynch-proof. I'm pretty sure at this point in the lore, Sam had brought Dragonglass back to Castle Black. Therefore, lore wise, if we attempted to lynch him and failed, we could just shank him. It doesn't make sense for him to be lynch-proof even if he were an Other. That'd be a pretty ridiculous role anyway; what would his win condition be? "You win no matter what"? That doesn't even make sense.

[MENTION=6823]Polantaris[/MENTION]; John Snow should have Longclaw which is made from Valyrian Steel as well.

It could be after x turns he can sound the horn and then everyone loses but him.

It could be after x turns he can sound the horn and then everyone loses but him.

He's claiming an ordinary horn not the Horn of Winter which would bring down the Wall and presumably kill everyone except White Walkers. Canonically, the only person who could have the Horn of Winter would be Sam anyway.

Well it seems that everyone has their path set in mind. It's a wasted day, but we've had such amazing luck this night/yesterday that we can afford a screwup or two. At least I'm not going to die because of it, but it's still frustrating. If it makes you happy, try to lynch me I suppose. I still find it much more likely that yoshi0 made a failed kill attempt on me than him being a flavor cop - it's too coincidental that he just happened to investigate me last night at the same time that someone attempted to kill me.

What part of a claimed failed attempt at killing you suddenly correlates to the person who thinks you're scum being scum themselves? There's a connection I'm missing here.
Because the only person who claims to have a reason for the lack of kill last night is obviously the most likely target for the scum who tried to kill him to lynch.

If this lynch doesn't go through and if you have dragonglass or fire or I guess valyrian steel (? I wasn't aware that was lethal to the undead): I suggest you consider that having the one weapon with the capability to eliminate a fellow townie doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

What part of a claimed failed attempt at killing you suddenly correlates to the person who thinks you're scum being scum themselves? There's a connection I'm missing here.
Because the only person who claims to have a reason for the lack of kill last night is obviously the most likely target for the scum who tried to kill him to lynch.

If this lynch doesn't go through and if you have dragonglass or fire or I guess valyrian steel (? I wasn't aware that was lethal to the undead): I suggest you consider that having the one weapon with the capability to eliminate a fellow townie doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Because you have flavor information that could just as easily have come from a failed kill attempt as from a flavor-cop investigation. It's no single factor, it's the combined timing of everything that is making me incredibly suspicious.

Because night kills tell the mafia information about the person they're targeting now?

I feel weird being the only person who actually believes the claims that have been made, everyone is so skeptical. I doesn't hurt us too bad not lynching to confirm MasPan's claims, if he really is unlynchable I wouldn't think he'd be mafia, I find it unlikely for there to be a special role made to kill him in the town since it would be an auto-loss if that townie got killed.

I'd also caution that while my behavior has been noticeably scummy what with the lies and whatnot, that it's still worth paying attention to other people. There is still quite a bit of screwiness in some posts that really shouldn't go ignored just because my fuckups are more visible.

Screaming "Lynch All Liars" is quite horrible, absolute laws like that are great for the mafia to justify townie lynches.

I'm gonna leave my vote with who I'd like to be lynched, even if it's almost certain MasPan is the one getting the majority today.
[Vote] VerrKol

Switching my vote to [Vote] [MENTION=8732]VerrKol[/MENTION]; to try to at least have something productive happen today. He's behind Y0shi0 on my suspicion list, but it's better than nothing.

I feel weird being the only person who actually believes the claims that have been made, everyone is so skeptical. I doesn't hurt us too bad not lynching to confirm MasPan's claims, if he really is unlynchable I wouldn't think he'd be mafia, I find it unlikely for there to be a special role made to kill him in the town since it would be an auto-loss if that townie got killed.

Which is why it's equally unlikely that he's town, and why he's more than likely a neutral, who is still scum as far as our wincondition goes.
If he's truly unkillable except for a certain role/item, then it would be instawin for either side if that person died.

And nobody's called upon LaL until now because the previous lies at least somewhat made sense. We just offed 2 mafia on the second day. Lying repeatedly and continuing to try and keep up a facade for the sole purpose of self-preservation makes no sense for town to do. If he has nothing to hide and nobody to hide, he would have no reason to lie. He should've known more than anybody that constant lies solely because you're "afraid" is much more condemning than claiming a sketchy role.

And now Shidoshi and Mas are jumping on the one wagon that anybody else has suggested. Which is where I will again point out that Shidoshi's behavior thus far has been, particularly in the past few days:
Voting for Luv
Switching to me after I continued talking about my suspicions towards them, after which Mas switched to me as well
Backing off of me and saying they weren't suspicious of me anymore
Switching back to being suspicious of me as soon as the day started when Mas voted for me.
Switching to the one person that anybody else has voted for that wasn't Mas, half an hour before Mas does the same.

Either it's nonsensical flip-flop city, or that whole thing just screams there's something up. To which I will again point out that white walkers being a cult makes a hell of a lot of sense.

Edit: I should also make a note that meta said earlier that scum mas would be more likely to try and divert attention. "Let's not forget these other scummy people!"

Current votes, btw:
5, Mas: Verrkol, Salguod, me, Meta, Polantaris
3, Verrkol: CJ, Shidoshi, Mas

Im sticking with what i said before for now, yoshis arguement is just so much stronger. While i dont trust his raven call because i think it was a mistake on his part trying to fake something, i still think its safer to lynch off maspan. As i said before a possible copish role is better than a bulletproof role. Plus considering its an odd night shidoshi should be able to protect someone. vote: maspan.