A Song of Ice and Mafia TOWN WINS

[MENTION=8732]VerrKol[/MENTION]; So far every character that has been revealed was there in the books and show, which is why it seems weird that bloodraven would be the role blocker since he has nothing to do with the wall. The other possibility is that tofuyoshi is Bran (kept awakr by three eyed crow like before?) which still doesnt make sense if we are going by canon. But if its more random then i could see it happening as well as coldhands being present. But i dont think holypie would make a role of bloodraven then take the role :F3: so Im more inclined to believe yoshi is lying somewhere

Do what now? Where in the hell did I even remotely say that?

"I don't want this to be a game of everyone suspects Luv but nobody does anything about it" implies that you would like to take action about Luv being suspicious. But you never did. You let others do it for you. "I almost never jump on bandwagons" You state that you want something to be done yet don't want to do it yourself. That doesn't make sense to me if you were town.

This is a pretty minor point and not necessarily indicative to anything. I'll just point out that the "Old Gods" can refer to either the heartwood tree pagan gods or to the White Walkers themselves.

I think you're reading too much into this part.

If Luv wasn't lying about Mas having an ability, Mas would have an ability AND be kill-immune. I can't see how that's town.

To clarify on the raven thing: pie made it sound like it wasn't so much a roleblocker as it was a natural occurrence of some sort. I might be overthinking it but it didn't sound like I was blocked as much as it did I was unable to perform my ability. I would understand it being a roleblocker, but I don't think it was, and that's why it's confusing, especially since it makes no sense in the context of my role.

[MENTION=6616]Olsi[/MENTION]; Bran occurred to me as well, but he doesn't seem to really fit well either. I did some brief checking on the ASOIAF wiki because I recalled the same distinction, but it seems that raven and crow are both used to refer to Bloodraven. Strictly speaking, no white walker should be able to cross the Wall at all because of the magic involved, but wights (zombies for the uninitiated) are certainly a possibility and I don't think that this rule is inviolate for mafia purposes anyway.
[MENTION=2796]y0y0y0y0shi0[/MENTION]; I think you're probably right and that's why I equivocated. Natural or supernatural don't matter based on my reading of Luv's ability. It would detect any night actions quite possibly including Mas setting up scarecrows. In other words, his ability would to be kill-immune. Why we would trust Luv's word at all is beyond me though. He may have been telling the truth, but it would certainly be misdirection even if he were.

My vote is staying on Shidoshi because of his rapid escalation of aggression, but Luv is next on my list.

To be fair, you did say that he was, "Next on your list," but then never actually voted for him. You apparently agreed with my case about him long before I convinced others, but never really did anything about it. 2 votes can't really be considered a bandwagon. I agree at a certain point there's no real point in voting for someone. I'd say at the point where Luv started voting for himself was the point in which there was no point in voting for him, but you stated that you suspected him and he was "on [your] list" long before then.

Even if you really are serving penitence on the Wall for whatever reason (although I don't remember a character that does that at all), it doesn't make sense that they would be scared to talk to you considering people have to fight at night at the top of the Wall.

Considering The Others can only be killed by Dragonglass, it makes perfect sense that an attempt to kill you wouldn't work.

So the real question at this point is...what is your win condition, if you are an Other? Should we be wasting the lynch on you? Will a lynch even kill you, or would we be wasting our day?

"I don't want this to be a game of everyone suspects Luv but nobody does anything about it" implies that you would like to take action about Luv being suspicious. But you never did. You let others do it for you. "I almost never jump on bandwagons" You state that you want something to be done yet don't want to do it yourself. That doesn't make sense to me if you were town.

I think you're reading too much into this part.

If Luv wasn't lying about Mas having an ability, Mas would have an ability AND be kill-immune. I can't see how that's town.

To clarify on the raven thing: pie made it sound like it wasn't so much a roleblocker as it was a natural occurrence of some sort. I might be overthinking it but it didn't sound like I was blocked as much as it did I was unable to perform my ability. I would understand it being a roleblocker, but I don't think it was, and that's why it's confusing, especially since it makes no sense in the context of my role.

[COLOR="#cc8899"]I wanted to give Luv the benefit of a day to rectify his mistakes or otherwise prove himself innocent. He failed to do either. I was NOT trying to push for a Luv lynch, nor did I want it to happen. As for the votes, I was referring to why I did not change my vote at the end of the day, not as to why I did not vote for him at all. As I already explained, Luv is an extremely easy lynch target (as was TheBirds) and I was wary of the mafia preying on that - it's extremely easy in a mislynch scenario to say "oops, my bad, he was just so scummy."

I don't appreciate you twisting events/wording to attribute motivations/thoughts to me that are not true. You've been consistently exaggerating statements/arguments every day now, and conveniently started focusing on me after the mafia made a failed attempt on my life last night. My vote is staying.[/COLOR]

So the real question at this point is...what is your win condition, if you are an Other? Should we be wasting the lynch on you? Will a lynch even kill you, or would we be wasting our day?

[COLOR="#cc8899"]A lynch will not kill me - I'm already serving my punishment as handed down by the Lord Commander. My role PM had a note warning me about people scaling the wall, though, so I suspect I could be killed if someone tries to climb it at night. As with a few other events (3 Finger Hobb having an ability requiring an onion from Davos, which is actually a bit silly considering Davos did his onion knight thing years and years ago), I suspect HP took a bit of poetic license with my punishment rather than sticking me in the ice cells where I'd be too removed from events lore-wise to have any sort of excuse to be involved.

I'm also apparently responsible for sounding the horn in the event of an emergency. Which does imply a white walker threat, since we're already being attacked by wildlings.


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I for one want to find out if he's really lynch immune because I just don't buy it from a supposed towny.

[Vote]:MasPan

I for one want to find out if he's really lynch immune because I just don't buy it from a supposed towny.

[Vote]:MasPan

[COLOR="#cc8899"]So you want to throw away the advantage we gained by the mafia failing to kill me last night, and any information that might've given us, by wasting a day trying to lynch me. What a wonderful idea.

-Edit- If you want more information, I was hiding something, because it would likely just cause a lot of distracting discussion. At this point I'd rather get it out of the way so we can continue focusing on the mafia rather than trying to accuse me of being a neutral. I cannot by killed or lynched because I am already dead. I was lying about the strawmen. I and seventy-eight of my brothers tried to abandon our posts in our own time and were brought back and imprisoned in the ice cells as a result - we're referred to as the seventy-nine sentinels. In the context of the mafia game, we've started reanimating, so Jon Snow put me on top of the wall - we need every body we can get. As a mark of my permanent shame, I am instead chained to the wall rather than imprisoned.

Which leads me to my next point - if, say, Y0shi0 were the person who made an attempt on my life last night, he would have likely gotten a result PM indicating some of the above. Especially given the timing of his accusations, I STRONGLY suspect him of being either THE or one of the remaining mafians. I AM a brother of the Nights Watch, forever. Always. That is my punishment and my shame. [/COLOR]

I think yoshi is full of crap to be honest. He is lying somewhere i think

The timing of my accusation as in as soon as I had a chance to look at my PM and post...? What part of a kill-less night exactly indicates convenience in a claim? How are we to even know the mafia actually tried to kill you?
Mas is claiming to be a town-aligned near invincible white walker who can only be killed if someone got ahold of dragonglass. That someone apparently being mafia since why would town get the only tool capable of killing a fellow townie.

Which means either pie is very, very bad at balancing this game, or Mas is lying through his teeth.

@MasPan; if I were mafia and tried to kill you why would pie tell me why you didnt die? That doesnt make any sense. That would be broken as pineapple. Imagine night 1's kill if mafia killed polantaris and shidoshi's the doctor: "oh yeah your kill was stopped because shidoshi protected your target". Right.

Keep in mind our win condition states "all threats to the realm are eliminated." Which would include neutrals like white walkers.

And his story literally states that Jon Snow is against him. So either jon snow is unaligned, or he is. Or jon snow is mafia, I guess.

I dont buy your roleblock on night one but voting maspan seems like the better play to make atm. But we still have a day of discussions so no point to rush

And again, I still don't think it was a roleblock. Obviously I could be wrong and reading too much into it but y'know. If pie's taken the persona of bloodraven it would make more sense if it was a different cause.

So you want to throw away the advantage we gained by the mafia failing to kill me last night, and any information that might've given us, by wasting a day trying to lynch me. What a wonderful idea.

What I want is to find out if you're lying about being lynch immune because your story is highly unlikely. I don't buy what you're selling.

The timing of my accusation as in as soon as I had a chance to look at my PM and post...? What part of a kill-less night exactly indicates convenience in a claim? How are we to even know the mafia actually tried to kill you?
Mas is claiming to be a town-aligned near invincible white walker who can only be killed if someone got ahold of dragonglass. That someone apparently being mafia since why would town get the only tool capable of killing a fellow townie.

Which means either pie is very, very bad at balancing this game, or Mas is lying through his teeth.

@MasPan; if I were mafia and tried to kill you why would pie tell me why you didnt die? That doesnt make any sense. That would be broken as pineapple. Imagine night 1's kill if mafia killed polantaris and shidoshi's the doctor: "oh yeah your kill was stopped because shidoshi protected your target". Right.

Keep in mind our win condition states "all threats to the realm are eliminated." Which would include neutrals like white walkers.

And his story literally states that Jon Snow is against him. So either jon snow is unaligned, or he is. Or jon snow is mafia, I guess.

I did not claim that dragonglass was a weakness - you're confusing Others with Wights. I am a wight, not an Other. I am vulnerable to fire, hence my suspicion of Stannis's group (and their association with Melisandre). Jon Snow is not against me either - he is my Lord Commander, as I am a brother of the watch. Where the hell are you getting these things that I most certainly did not say?

Out of all alive:

Salguod, meowmixx and ChaoticCJ remain quite inactive, it's rather hard to conclude anything about them if they hardly participate.
MasPan is some kind of unkillable watcher on the walls or a very crazy fake claim, the fact we didn't have a NK corroborates his theory though.
y0y0y0y0shi0 for some reason keep looking fishy to me.
MetaSeraphim is so lost he didn't even notice Hyper had died.
Olsi shows up sporadically to agree with y0y0y0y0, still a bit suspicious of him.
Polantaris is being his usual self, seems town for the most part.
Don't know how to describe VerrKol, but his intentions seem a bit controverted.

Don't know why people still have suspicion of me, I was for voting Niernen on Day 1 and on the Luv wagon yesterday, but ok.

I'm torn between voting y0y0y0y0shi0, VerrKol and Olsi today. Gonna follow Mas on this one for now.

[Vote] y0y0y0y0shi0

Which is weird because i said multiple times i dont believe yoshis story because of his bloodraven point. But on a term of risk wouldnt yoshis potentual power be worth more than maspans power of "bullet proof". Plus the risk of maspan being a neutral other is also a factor

Don't know how to describe VerrKol, but his intentions seem a bit controverted.

This is funny because I've been incredibly explicit about everything I've thought and done. Meanwhile, you're always voting based on "feelings".
[MENTION=814]MasPan[/MENTION]; If John Snow is our Lord Commander why did you cast suspicion on who you thought was him Day 1? The mafia would already know if John was or wasn't on their side so the only people you could deceive would be town or neutral. I can't see how that would possibly help the town.

This is funny because I've been incredibly explicit about everything I've thought and done. Meanwhile, you're always voting based on "feelings".
MasPan; If John Snow is our Lord Commander why did you cast suspicion on who you thought was him Day 1? The mafia would already know if John was or wasn't on their side so the only people you could deceive would be town or neutral. I can't see how that would possibly help the town.

Because I needed someone to vote for because Day 1 and he seemed as likely a candidate as any (most of the candidates at the time were TheBirds and other "quiet" players). I wasn't going to jump on TheBirds and didn't really have any other leads. I've admitted the reasoning was rather weak, but I wasn't actively pushing for a lynch either. Notice that I completely put aside that vote as soon as I had something I felt strong enough to go off of. Besides, Salguod came out to say that he wasn't Jon Snow, so it ended up being a rather moot point. I should specify that my role PM was not explicit about which Lord Commander chained me, but Jon Snow was always messing around with wights and whatnot, so he seemed most likely. And I still believe there's potential there for him to have at least empathy for, if not support for, the Wildlings due to his experiences with them.

And Shidoshi is still our unconfirmed Odd night doctor. Luv stole the spotlight yesterday but I don't want us to forget that unknown.

But to more pressing matters, here's my take: why not lynch both?

I haven't said much because I don't know much. Our cop, if he exists, may know more than we do, but all I have are these claims (from Shidoshi, Maspan and Yoshi) and frankly, none of them seem particularly trustworthy. So the only way to confirm these stories is with the only power we have, lynching. And I say we because Luv's power implies there may be a substantial amount of people without powers.

With that in mind, [Vote] Maspan

I think Kyra's clutch kill on Niernen has given us the luxury to do this even with the potential of "wasting" a day. And I'm prioritizing Mas because I just can't imagine his role being town. And every time he gets questioned, he adds things he was hiding, making me believe him less and less. If indeed unkillable and town, why not just tell us the whole story right away when you've revealed the important part (unkillable = mafia shouldn't target) first?

Well I've been refreshing and reading alot. Seems its team maspan vs team yoshi.

Let me put this out here first, I can see yoshi's ability being true since the abilities aren't the straight up norm (odd night doc). Maspan seems to be extremely fishy to me. Almost every time i refreshed something new was added to Maspan's posts. Its like ur adding more and more crap to the story which is what a liar would do to try to convince the others to believe in him. You claim to be a wight. I trust no wights! I want to vote u off just for that alone. However I am not sure if a lynch would end u and waste a day killing. I think ur more of a neutral than that of the enemy party but for all we know u could have some dangerous tricks up ur sleeves.

why not just tell us the whole story right away when you've revealed the important part (unkillable = mafia shouldn't target) first?

You claim to be a wight. I trust no wights! I want to vote u off just for that alone.

[COLOR="#cc8899"]
Exactly the reason I kept information hidden. I couldn't claim without people wanting to off me just for being a wight, nevermind that even Coldhands is a wight and is a pretty damned helpful dude. I'd been planning on claiming Satin, since he was an archer up on the walls with the straw men, but that didn't pan out. So I realized it was better to come out with it now before I was anywhere close to a vote majority than at the last minute.[/COLOR]