The games that ruined their series.

The Wii Wario games destroyed the Wario/Wario Ware franchise. Those were atrocious.

the wario ware camera game for ds was crappy too, sadly wario ware became the "feature test game" they were like the fir games for ds camera, wii mote and wii-u pad

anyway I didn't care much about WW since rhythm tengoku was announced, at least the trilogy has been pretty good

Sticker Star is the worst 3DS game I've ever played.

[MENTION=3430]Sarah[/MENTION]; loved it.

Ar Tonelico Qoga is the best example of this of any game/series I've played. AT1 was good, AT2 was amazing, ATQ was absolute dogshit.

Ar nosurge is coming out soon though, and it seems to use something like the first two games' system, though it also may be keeping the retarded oversexualization of ATQ based on gameplay videos I've seen.

Dawn of Mana destroyed Secret of Mana. RIP.

It really did. It really did

EDIT: Battle Network 4 and 5 almost killed that series for me too, but 6 redeemed it.

Battle Network 5 is, to this very day, the only BN game I've never actually finished / 100%. I'm glad BN6 didn't continue the whole "Mission" system.

OT: Final "Hallway" 13 was the killer for me. I actually enjoyed FF12, but what they did for FF13 really did it in for me. FF15 looks real promising though.

Also, obligatory: "Skyward Sword, you took fun and made it un-fun. How do you even do that?!"

Also, obligatory: "Skyward Sword, you took fun and made it un-fun. How do you even do that?!"

Because Nintendo refuses to stop padding out the 3D zeldas with stupid fetch quests/huge empty areas.

If you know what you're doing, you can reasonably 100% OOT and MM in sub 20 hours (without using glitches).

Good luck doing anywhere near that on TP/WW/SS. They would all have been so much better games if they shrank the overworlds and cut the filler elements. TP and SS could both do with being at least 10 hours shorter.

It's a shame nintendo seems to be going in completely the opposite direction with zelda U, possibly to chase that skyrim audience.

Ar Tonelico Qoga is the best example of this of any game/series I've played. AT1 was good, AT2 was amazing, ATQ was absolute dogshit.

Ar nosurge is coming out soon though, and it seems to use something like the first two games' system, though it also may be keeping the retarded oversexualization of ATQ based on gameplay videos I've seen.

I must really agree. I am absolutely in love with the first and love the second almost as much. Then came Qoga and I was like .

Because Nintendo refuses to stop padding out the 3D zeldas with stupid fetch quests/huge empty areas.

If you know what you're doing, you can reasonably 100% OOT and MM in sub 20 hours (without using glitches).

Good luck doing anywhere near that on TP/WW/SS. They would all have been so much better games if they shrank the overworlds and cut the filler elements. TP and SS could both do with being at least 10 hours shorter.

It's a shame nintendo seems to be going in completely the opposite direction with zelda U, possibly to chase that skyrim audience.

I always felt TP problem was a dead and linear overworld, while SS was that it had none at all (I refuse to call the worthless bird flying an overworld).

Bigger, better and more alive would be much prefarble. OOT felt immensely bigger, even if it wasn't.


And while on the subject of sequels that ruins the fun, FF XII changed some stuff that did not need changing, but was still a decent game. FF XIII and it's ilk took out the big guns and really destroyed what was left.

I don't give a rat's arse about Mario games anymore, I have not been really hooked since Legend of the 7 Stars and Mario 64.

If you know what you're doing, you can reasonably 100% OOT and MM in sub 20 hours (without using glitches).

For perspective, average time to finish the game is about twice that.
Completing it is about 3 times that.

Ar Tonelico Qoga is the best example of this of any game/series I've played. AT1 was good, AT2 was amazing, ATQ was absolute dogshit.

Ar nosurge is coming out soon though, and it seems to use something like the first two games' system, though it also may be keeping the retarded oversexualization of ATQ based on gameplay videos I've seen.

Oh my god Qoga pissed me off. I couldn't even get through the first quarter of the game before I dropped it entirely... It's just a fucking insult to fans of the series.

Putting forth that I really liked Skyward's story- probably the best out of any of them. But I do agree that the stupid wii motion plus dampened the experience the whole way.

'Skyyywaaard Swoord addeeed Booooomb Bowliiiiing'

For perspective, average time to finish the game is about twice that.
Completing it is about 3 times that.

How have I not heard of that site before today? That place is amazing. I thought I would look up Dragon Quest VII because it was a notoriously long game but they don't have an entry for it. Dragon Quest IX's completionist average is [URL=http://www.howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=2817"]554 hours[/URL] which doesn't surprise me because some of the post game content was extremely tedious.

As for the topic itself, my vote would go towards Grandia Xtreme. Ironically, I think it has the best battle system of the Grandia games but the story and voice acting are atrocious. After hearing Mark Hamill in the Batman games, I can't believe he was a part of that game.

Putting forth that I really liked Skyward's story- probably the best out of any of them. But I do agree that the stupid wii motion plus dampened the experience the whole way.

'Skyyywaaard Swoord addeeed Booooomb Bowliiiiing'

I didn't have much of a problem with the motion controls

Putting forth that I really liked Skyward's story- probably the best out of any of them. But I do agree that the stupid wii motion plus dampened the experience the whole way.

'Skyyywaaard Swoord addeeed Booooomb Bowliiiiing'

And the extrem lack of diversity in enemies and to a lesser extent dungeons. Hoblins? Hoblins! Hoblins?! Hoblins.

I did not really enjoy the corny enemy design either, not a single one was menacing outside of Demise.

I'm surprised no one mentioned the extreme amount of hand holding within the game. That was the #1 turn off for me.

And the extrem lack of diversity in enemies and to a lesser extent dungeons. Hoblins? Hoblins! Hoblins?! Hoblins.

I did not really enjoy the corny enemy design either, not a single one was menacing outside of Demise.

And I'm sure they got that Tentacle monster straight from Monsters Inc. or something.

I'm surprised no one mentioned the extreme amount of hand holding within the game. That was the #1 turn off for me.

This game was likely that one Zelda game every fan always made fun of: Spoonfeeding, predictable storylines and characters and eyeball bosses up the wazoo (I can only count 2-3 bosses that doesn't have that weakness).

I'm surprised no one mentioned the extreme amount of hand holding within the game. That was the #1 turn off for me.

I completed Skyward Sword without any help at all in just a few days. That alone says enough for me, because usually LoZ games take longer for me, and require me to look up a walkthrough once or twice...

Favorite video dealing with this subject matter:

[video=youtube;l69BP1uhlMs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l69BP1uhlMs[/vieo]

That was hilarious. RIP banjo ;-;

Battle Network 5 is, to this very day, the only BN game I've never actually finished / 100%. I'm glad BN6 didn't continue the whole "Mission" system.

I beat BN5 if i remember correctly, but i definitely didn't enjoy it. Same with BN4.

I was told BN6 was incredible but never picked it up. I might try to see if there's a ROM since i'm doing a run through of the BN series for nostalgia.

Good luck doing anywhere near that on TP/WW/SS.

Uhhhh...well let's see


Doesn't look like "anywhere near" 20 hours, nope. If you want a glitchless "nowhere near 20 hours" run of TP, here's the WR. Cosmo's WWHD runs might as well be glitchless (outside of ledge clips and whatnot) since storage/super swimming is basically the only glitch that really matters and his record is like 4 hrs 35 min. If he did a 100% glitchless run i guarantee it would be sub 8 hrs, because glitches simply do not suck up half the game time.

You don't have to exaggerate that much if you wanted to show that TP/WW are too long when they aren't. SS has no excuses.

My friend would have said Fire Emblem Awakening, he hates it with passion. Mostly because you could grind out the DLC (you really had to for lunatic though, or you get slaughtered) and class switch till you had nearly every skill and max stats. It takes forever, but you can reach a point where you can beat whole armies with just a handful characters on normal/hard. I remember I accidentally placed Chrom one space too far, and every single enemy attacked him and got killed on the counterattack, without him taking any damage. Or the fact that it had a casual mode that removed the permadeath (I actually liked it, so you didn't have to restart every time someone died from a small mistake). The whole grind for max stats and skills was not typical for Fire Emblem. Such easy class switches made the characters themselves mostly useless as everyone could be nearly any class and some class/skills were far superior (galeforce anyone?).

That was hilarious. RIP banjo ;-;

Uhhhh...well let's see


Doesn't look like "anywhere near" 20 hours, nope. If you want a glitchless "nowhere near 20 hours" run of TP, here's the WR. Cosmo's WWHD runs might as well be glitchless (outside of ledge clips and whatnot) since storage/super swimming is basically the only glitch that really matters and his record is like 4 hrs 35 min. If he did a 100% glitchless run i guarantee it would be sub 8 hrs, because glitches simply do not suck up half the game time.

You don't have to exaggerate that much if you wanted to show that TP/WW are too long when they aren't. SS has no excuses.

TP/WW are full of filler bullshit. There's a reason I included the word "reasonably". It's not reasonable to presume everyone is a world record holding zelda player who completed it maybe hundreds of times to get the keypresses exactly right.

And even if you do for some inane reason take "World record = normal", ocarinas is still significantly shorter than the links you gave, so it doesn't change anything.

Twilight princess is also full of skippable cutscenes that don't add time to one of those records but would while a normal person plays the thing, so that needs to be taken into account when you compared to the other games where you can't skip anything.