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JoeTang · 2013-12-05, 03:16 AM

ChronosXIII Wrote:Hey [MENTION=535]JoeTang[/MENTION];, I was wondering if you finished your test on post-RED Meso Explosion, on post 267, on whether or not Meso Explosion is still hard capped at 15 hits on a single target. If it is, what happens to the other 10 (15 with Hyper) coins that fly but don't get used up? Boomed into oblivion or does the skill limit 15 coins being used in this scenario?

Thanks in advance.

No I never got the chance to test this out effectively. Someone might want to try on GMS to see if it was just lag or something else. I might retry later this month when I log back on for the Pirate Legend.
The idea was that the maximum critical stacks I ever saw myself getting on one target was 15. It may be a limit on Prime Critical rather than Meso Explosion's hits.

The model that I use for %/s assumes every hit always adds one stack to Prima Critical though. I was noting that if I was sufficiently below 100%, I would stop at 100% in a single Meso Explosion. i.e. at 50%, even if I hit 20 times for +4% crit each, it would hang on 100% while the rest of ME hit for whatever reason, likely lag, and it would reset on my next attack. It's possible this is an intended feature though, so someone could test that too.

IllegallySane · 2013-12-18, 03:33 AM

So stupid question, and I'm not sure if I asked this already so apologies in advance. I noticed there's a table for Dual Blades and no CD Final Cut, which I'm taking as Final Cut can be kept up indefinitely as long as you don't die. How do you get that continuous duration? Can you achieve it without having to have more than one Mechanic card in total for your character deck?

CakesXD · 2013-12-18, 04:33 AM

IllegallySane Wrote:So stupid question, and I'm not sure if I asked this already so apologies in advance. I noticed there's a table for Dual Blades and no CD Final Cut, which I'm taking as Final Cut can be kept up indefinitely as long as you don't die. How do you get that continuous duration? Can you achieve it without having to have more than one Mechanic card in total for your character deck?

No, you cannot. You need ~50% buff duration (S Rank Mercedes card helps too) for 100% uptime on FC.

Also you can no longer have more than one type of the same class in your character card deck, so no more Mech-card stacking.

Mazz · 2013-12-18, 05:40 AM

IllegallySane Wrote:So stupid question, and I'm not sure if I asked this already so apologies in advance. I noticed there's a table for Dual Blades and no CD Final Cut, which I'm taking as Final Cut can be kept up indefinitely as long as you don't die. How do you get that continuous duration? Can you achieve it without having to have more than one Mechanic card in total for your character deck?

15% on Mechanic card, 32% on Unique IA and 5%+ from level 50+ Empathy, hardest part is the IA line since if you rank up to unique there's a pretty high chance it'll just rank back down to rare the next circulator... the IA changes in KMS are pretty nice though, but they're a long way away.

DaringWaffle · 2013-12-22, 02:51 AM

Phantom glitch?

Not sure if its just a visual error, but Crit card from judgement draw doesnt seem to do anything to my crit rate, 55% w/o it, 55% with it (at least thats what it said)
anyone else have this problem?

on a side note, cross over chains is incredible, aside from the fact that I have crap avoid and get hit so often :/
Im sure thats gotta derease my dps by a lot D:

usually trying to count on life drain draw card but have the worst luck at drawing it

IllegallySane · 2013-12-22, 03:12 AM

If you're in a place such as Evolving World or in a really mobby/high HP place such as MP3 or Stronghold, is Cross Over Chains actually better for EXP/hour than Holy Symbol, or would this truth only apply if you have few EXP boosters?

JoeTang · 2014-01-09, 03:48 PM

Twilight is used as a debuff 2s before it runs out regardless of what combo you're doing.

RED:
Phantom:

Arrow Platter + Cross Over Chain

Ultimate Drive/Twilight + Tempest of Card + Final Cut + Cross Over Chain

Rapid Fire

Sharp Eyes

Hyper

KMST 1.2.495:
Phantom:

Arrow Platter + Cross Over Chain

Ultimate Drive/Twilight + Tempest of Card + Final Cut + Cross Over Chain

Rapid Fire

Sharp Eyes

Hyper

JoeTang · 2014-01-09, 04:03 PM

Returns:
Xenon:

Fuzzy

Hyper

KMST 1.2.495:
Xenon:

Fuzzy

Hyper

Mazz · 2014-01-14, 07:40 AM

Whenever you get a chance would you be able to add a Blade Master table without Asura? Curious to see how much the %/s drop without Asura included, and how the hits/s are affected.

holycow · 2014-01-14, 08:47 AM

Mazz Wrote:Whenever you get a chance would you be able to add a Blade Master table without Asura? Curious to see how much the %/s drop without Asura included, and how the hits/s are affected.

Wouldn't that be the non-hyper tables? :f6:

Mazz · 2014-01-14, 08:50 AM

holycow Wrote:Wouldn't that be the non-hyper tables? :f6:

Hyper tables also include Blade Clone, +1 attack on Phantom Blow, etc, so not really. It'd be similar though I imagine.

JoeTang · 2014-01-14, 09:30 AM

With Asura:
Blade Master:

Spoiler

Sharp Eyes

Hyper

JoeTang · 2014-01-14, 09:37 AM

Without Asura:

Blade Master:

Spoiler

Sharp Eyes

Hyper

pineapple my life. Asura didn't have Mirror Image on it. That's a mistake right? I've made a horrible mistake right? Anyways, the difference appears to be small for some reason. It's most noticeable on high defense, since Asura has defense ignore on it.

Mazz · 2014-01-14, 09:52 AM

Interesting :f6: thought it'd be more noticeable, so the biggest (and only real) difference is the drop in %/s on higher defence mobs, since Asura ignores 100%, but even then it doesn't change that much.

Thanks again!

JoeTang · 2014-01-14, 09:54 AM

Mazz Wrote:Interesting :f6: thought it'd be more noticeable, so the biggest (and only real) difference is the drop in %/s on higher defence mobs, since Asura ignores 100%, but even then it doesn't change that much.

Thanks again!

I had to scribble some updates and fix a bug so check the tables again, but yes, Asura doesn't actually seem to be that big of a bonus.

Checking the No CD Final Cut table would be best, since the normal table doesn't optimize Final Cut to sync with Asura. It's a lot more noticeable there that it's a benefit.

prettygreat · 2014-02-04, 06:38 AM

@JoeTang, how do the UA summons affect DPS? I'm sure the effect is minimal, but I was curious as to how much additional DPS you'd get as a UA vs being a regular Adventurer.

HerDevilish · 2014-04-27, 11:00 AM

@JoeTang Do you think you can post a ranking of all jobs in terms of hits/s? People's funding nowadays are getting greater and for example in GMS, funded NLs seem to be outdamaging almost all other jobs.

JoeTang · 2014-04-27, 05:08 PM

HerDevilish Wrote:@JoeTang Do you think you can post a ranking of all jobs in terms of hits/s? People's funding nowadays are getting greater and for example in GMS, funded NLs seem to be outdamaging almost all other jobs.

No.

JoeTang · (This post was last modified: 2014-08-04, 09:37 AM by JoeTang.)

Thought I'd make a small update to try to keep myself to a vague schedule. Have the general skeleton for Night Walker done, but I've decided to make one and give it a shot to figure out the details on Mark of Darkness and Shadow Bats. From what I see in videos, the activation rate and appearance of bats is pretty significant, which is a bit different from what the stat says. Might be counting actual hits to activate, Shadow Servant's hits, or something else is happening. It's not too clear anywhere whether Mark of Darkness's stack durations are independent of each other. It's possible since it's on the target, but most stack buffs on yourself refresh all their durations when it happens. Would make it a bit more complicated if I wanted exact values, but it could also be estimated to be at full stacks all the time if you're only attacking anyways.

Anyways, I only tested the output with the first KMST patch, and the numbers are pretty abysmal, but I believe they got buffed quite a bit afterwards, and there's a bit more I need to work out.

I won't be able to give it a try for 24+ hours since I have to wait for a character to delete (ty nexons), but unlike Blaze Wizard, I probably only need to get to 2nd or 3rd job and not 4th to see it all really. Might be able to expect this next week. And yes, I know this is 3 months late. After that, I'll probably just push out the latest KMS rebalances the same night.

JoeTang · 2014-08-04, 10:19 AM

Some information about Night Walkers that I've collected, mostly about Shadow Bats:

Every 3 attacks, you will summon one Shadow Bat, until you reach your limit (2 in 1st job, etc).
Every attack, there is a chance one Shadow Bat will fly out and attack an enemy.
This enemy can be the same target, but if it dies, it will search for a different target.
If the Shadow Bat is in midflight, and the target dies, the Shadow Bat will disappear. (Like Soul Seeker, Shield Chasing, etc.)
The Shadow Bat can bounce across targets, up to a limit (3 in 1st job).
If there is only one target, the Shadow Bats cannot bounce.
If there is more than one target, the Shadow Bats will bounce until they have hit their maximum limit.
If there are only two targets, the Shadow Bats will bounce between them until they have hit their maximum limit.
Triple Throw, Quadruple Throw, Quintuple Throw, and Stardust have a delayed hit component to their attack. For Shadow Bat summoning and attacking, these are considered two separate attacks.
i.e. every 3 Triple Throw, 2 Shadow Bats are summoned because it is 6 attacks. Every Triple Throw, up to two Shadow Bats may be sent to attack, because there are two attacks.
Each Shadow Servant's attacks count towards Shadow Bat summoning and attacking. I assume that Shadow Illusion's extra Servants also add to this, meaning with it active, each Quintuple Throw is considered 8 attacks.
Stardust hitting multiple monsters is only considered one attack. Only one Shadow Bat can be summoned or attack for each of its attack components.
Stardust's explosion costs 1 Star if it hits a monster, and 1 more Star for each additional monster hit. I don't know why, and it's not important with Spirit Throwing, but it's still not cool.
The duration for Mark of Darkness's stacks are reset each time it is reactivated on a monster. This is the only way it could possibly stack to +5.
Mark of Darkness doubles the activation rate for Shadow Bat's attack.

The following is speculation:
For each stack of Mark of Darkness, one additional Shadow Bat is sent to attack when it activates, up to however many Shadow Bats you have.
i.e. Lucky Sevens may send 2 Shadow Bats if you have 1 Mark of Darkness stack active, and it may send 5 Shadow Bats if you have 5 Mark of Darkness stacks active despite being one attack, if you have 5 Shadow Bats at once.
If Mark of Darkness is active, one additional Shadow Bat is summoned when the attack count is reached.
Alternatively, one additional Shadow Bat is summoned for each stack of Mark of Darkness when the attack count is reached.

These two points are extremely difficult for me to confirm, but it appears to be what is happening and explains how it is possible to send out so many Shadow Bats at any given time.
The first point, additional Shadow Bats (per stack?), is mentioned in Shadow Bat's description. It is fairly easy to see 2 Shadow Bats attack a single target with Mark of Darkness, if it is activated when using Lucky Sevens which normally can only send one out. I believe I have also seen an instance of all four of my Shadow Bats attacking at once when testing with Lucky Sevens.
I have also noted gaining two Shadow Bats on a target with Mark of Darkness, though this is difficult to replicate accurately. It may be possible for me to check at Easy Zakum if I strip off enough weapon attack, but the position of the damage numbers and Mark of Darkness makes it a bit difficult to read. This may require me to simply level high enough to find monsters that I can hit, but not kill immediately. It's also difficult because in the process of trying to get Shadow Bats, they simply just fly out and hit things. It's easiest to get them when you OHKO, since they won't try to attack if everything is dead, but it's also meaningless because dead things can't have Mark of Darkness.
The extra Shadow Bats gained would explain how it is possible to actually send out so many Shadow Bats to begin with, since with the Mark of Darkness function as it is, any Shadow Bats summoned every 3 attacks would be sent out nearly immediately. Sending out more bats can't possibly just be a functionality for Darkness Omen and Dominion, can it? Because summoning Shadow Bats is basically 33%, whereas sending them to attack is 45% (90% with Mark of Darkness), meaning you should never have many Shadow Bats, let alone 5, unless you were to use Darkness Omen or Dominion to summon them/keep them from dying.

I may just need to record a video and count how many bats are being sent out to compare with what theory would dictate. Otherwise, if anyone knows a Night Walker on KMS who has Dominion (level 170), if they could activate it with no bats, throw 3 Lucky Sevens to see how many Bats come out, and then throw it again to see how many bats attack, that would probably explain everything.

Otherwise, my experience with the class has been more interesting than Blaze Wizards. I feel my training has been rather limited to areas in my level range so far, i.e. every time my Shadow Bats activate, I OHKO 6 monsters, which is cool, but I think traditional mobbing is much more efficient. Stardust is extremely weak, and slow. Only useful if you OHKO. I believe latency causes my Shadow Servant to overkill my target, otherwise, I think it's possible to OHKO 4 monsters with Quadruple Throw. Tried some +20 level areas today, and the Shadow Bats are much less effective, especially since I miss so often. It is interesting to be able to spam Quadruple Throw and still clear a map because of the bats, despite their missing though. There are probably some really strong maps for this playstyle, and it lends itself extremely well to multipart bosses like Zakum and Horntail, which it should be able to hit many of the parts with just the bats alone, and simply a high hits/s makes it very powerful at the highest levels.

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