Super Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS Discussion

Lyn was in Brawl but she wasn't the most popular is her game. I think they included her because she was everyone's first ;p

The unfortunate part is that Lucina being a Marth clone-ish is a huge part of the canon/story so they couldn't really have it any other way if they wanted to include Lucina lol. At some point in the story a very very old character mistakes Lucina for Marth (who is long dead).

She isn't a marth clone in story though.
She uses an exact copy of chroms fighting style, not marths, and there's no reason to think they are the same.

Yeah i get you. I actually just thought of something though. Isn't lucina the first female swordsmen in smash ever? If she's the most popular of that series and they were going to have this kind of FE exposure, wouldn't it be disrespectful if she wasn't in her own slot?

I would argue making her a clone is more "disrespectful". Not that I'm sure who is being disrespected in this situation. At least femrobin is a proper female original character (but I don't get why gender matters either).

I would argue making her a clone is more "disrespectful". Not that I'm sure who is being disrespected in this situation. At least femrobin is a proper female original character (but I don't get why gender matters either).

Gender matters because nintendo is still trying to widen their audience. As they should be. I guess they think no female characters = no female players.

I don't think anyone except die hard fans would think a character being a clone is disrespectful to the character. No one thought fox/falco, link/ylink, etc was disrespectful because they still played differently and they never had the merit of being the first of their gender to be fighting with a style that is traditionally and overwhelmingly male. You can tell nintendo, or at least sakurai, cares a lot about this kind of stuff because they're going out of their way to make smash4 the first game to do major things. First fighter to feature the four biggest names in gaming history (sonic, mario, pac-man, megaman). First smash game to be gender neutral. First handheld smash game. First smash game (first fighting game?) with character customization on this level, plus this amiibo thing. Etc etc etc. First female swordswoman just adds to the firsts in a relatively major way.

There still isn't any guarantee she's a clone anyway. Just because 100% of the moves we have seen so far marth did first, doesn't mean the other attacks plus her customized moveset will be the same.

She isn't a marth clone in story though.
She uses an exact copy of chroms fighting style, not marths, and there's no reason to think they are the same.

I didn't mean it literally, just that her similarity isn't just coincidence. In story, she makes no real effort to be similar to Marth other than borrowing a name. But Tiki acknowledges that her taking the name (on a sort of whim) and her similarities and qualities as something more than just coincidence.

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In other news, it seems that Lucina's taunt lets her put on her mask. Also, when Kirby eats Lucina, he has her mask on.

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Also something I saw on reddit, Robin's Arc Fire pose is the same as the Mage's pose in the GBA FE. That's some real quality fan service...

Have some mag scans

 Lucina, Captain Falcon

 Robin

Lucina's Specials
Up: Dolphin Slash
Down: Counter
Neutral: Shield Breaker
Side: Marvelous Combination

Also shown are her up and forward smashes.

Robin's
Up: Elwind
Down: Nosferatu
Neutral: Thunder
Side: Arcfire
Final: Double

We've just announced two new characters who will be joining the fray in the upcoming Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U. One is Robin, the avatar from Fire Emblem: Awakening, and the other is Lucina, a swordswoman who plays an important role in the same title. I'll skip over the details.

"What? Not Chrom!?" I suspect a lot of you will ask. Of course, Chrom is quite popular, being the protagonist of FE:A and all. However, I chose Robin and Lucina, and I will elaborate on my reasoning.

Robin appears in the game as a Tactician and functions much like a Mystic Knight (note: FF terminology, but equivalent to magic swordsman). I thought to utilize his all-around nature by assigning swordplay to his Smash attacks and magic tomes to his special attacks--that is, allow him to use magic.

His neutral special is thunder magic that grows stronger the larger you charge it. He uses fire magic for his side special, and wind magic for recovery as his up special. Although Robin doesn't use dark magic in FE:A, I decided to assign it as his down special. It isn't the first time I've given moves to a character that they don't use in their respective game in order to capture certain aspects of the original title.

I also implemented the system used in FE:A, in which tomes break after overuse. Likewise, I included a similar system for the Levin Sword, which breaks after a certain number of uses. However, both the tomes and the Levin Sword will quickly regenerate after a set period of time.

Lucina uses the same techniques as Marth, a fighter with whom I'm sure most of you are already familiar. I even went so far as to make their strength, speed, and special attacks almost identical. However, what sets Lucina apart is the fact that the strength of her attacks is uniform along the blade. Marth's playstyle emulates the elegant swordplay of a fencer by dealing more damage when he strikes with the tip of his blade, but the damage Lucina deals is evened out. Thus, I think that Lucina will be much easier than Marth for novice players to play with.

I played all the way through FE:A and really wanted to include a character from that rich cast in Smash Bros. Naturally, I considered adding Chrom to the roster, but the decision wasn't easy by any means. At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics.

Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place. Not only did he possess characteristics unlike other fighters, but he also captured the essence of the Fire Emblem series. It was perfect!

In the end, if a game isn't fun, then there's no point. Of course, it would be really easy to make a game by churning out a ton of similar characters, but that's not how I produce games.

Initially, I had considered including Lucina as one of Marth's alternate costumes. After all, she has a close relationship with him in FE:A. In such cases, even if two characters' names and voices differ, as long as they function the same way, I assign them as alternate costumes. The Wii Fit Trainers, Villagers, and Robin are examples of this setup.

However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!

Not my translation. I can't vouch for its correctness.

Random pic is random

Pic of the day. We have Nintendogs plus cats! How could we forget them!! Just FYI, there are about five dog breeds in this game. This was me, reporting from the 3DS-exclusive stage, Living Room.

Fucking hate Nintendogs, the game and the assist trophy. All those poor abandoned dogs...

Didn't want another generic swordsman so made a Marth clone, okay.

But seriously I think picking Robin over Chrom was a good choice. The Sword and Tome gameplay should make the character more interesting. Also if the translation is correct sounds like Lucina is just a pure bonus character rather than some roster spot stealer.

I was hoping the pic might be Captain Falcon today to give an insight onto something that was changed about him. Oh well…

It's hard to see Chrom bringing anything unique as a fighter other than being "another blue hair male-swordy", at least, from his gameplay and whatnot (heck, it's hard with Roy as he's a typical lord... but with fire). At least with Lucina, ironically her unique (intended) feature/quality is her uncanny resemblance to Marth, so I kinda agree with Sakurai's reasoning.

Though, glad to see that Sakurai had the same idea as many others and considered Lucina as an alternate costume to Marth... that brings some hope that he's considered alternate costumes for other characters much like Little Mac.

The attention to detail that was put into Robin honestly brought my hype meter to maximum!

If Sakurai really didn't want Chrom for his generic swordplay, I don't get why he didn't reconsider Lyn as a playable character. I feel that even though she's a sword user she can still have a unique gameplay style, i.e. her bow, her traditional samurai "draw the blade only when needed" style, that insane speed, the sol katti! I mean sure she may not be hip and current in terms of marketing, but how can you not recognize her (or Hector for that matter) as a good candidate for an FE representative? I mean even Eliwood is more unique in swordplay in comparison to Roy and Marth, especially if they gave him Durandal... I don't know I guess I just really liked the FE7 cast, and a bit bummed that as far as we know, and as much as Sakurai has told us about Lucina, that shes just Marth with no sweetspot and no lance and an updated Falchion. Don't get me wrong shes a great addition and her changes make it easier for someone like me who doesn't use Marth, to get acclimated to the style.

Bottomline, I cant wait until the Wii U release; It's gotten to the point that I may even pick up a copy for my 3ds. Sakurai is really putting a lot of thought into every choice he has made for this game, and I hope he continues to do so.

I played all the way through FE:A and really wanted to include a character from that rich cast in Smash Bros. Naturally, I considered adding Chrom to the roster, but the decision wasn't easy by any means. At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics.

However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!

What. Those two paragraphs are contradictory to each other.

"Okay, let's change Lucina's sweet zone to the whole length of her blade and now she's 'unique' enough to be a separate character!"

What. Those two paragraphs are contradictory to each other.

"Okay, let's change Lucina's sweet zone to the whole length of her blade and now she's 'unique' enough to be a separate character!"

In the first paragraph he's talking about Chrom vs Robin and why Chrom didn't make it compared to Robin. The second paragraph is for Lucina, who was going to be in regardless as an alternative costume or not. Basically he decided Robin over Chrom because Chrom wouldn't bring anything new to the table but Lucina wasn't going to steal anyone's spot on the roster.

Pic of the day. Here's a Screen K.O. shot. There are also patterns where players will disappear into the sky for Star K.O.s, but as a match's time limit approaches, those K.O.s will not occur anymore.

No more stalling the timer with star kos it seems.

Good change!

No more stalling the timer with star kos it seems.

Good change!

I don't think anyone does this. Doing that would be really hard even for competitive players unless they had a character that is strongest killing off the top, and even then they don't care about stalling for time if they're being aggressive and getting kills. It's also a contradiction. If you're stalling, then you can't really be going for killing anyone because then you're not stalling...

What this would have affected is if jigglypuff was in the game with her rest like it was in melee, the strategy to use is if you get hit is to DI to the side to avoid a star KO, so that you come back to the stage quicker to punish the rest with possibly a kill. If rest leads into a star KO then jigglypuff will wake up without taking damage (or at least, not dying). Even without jigglypuff or rest this change is good but i can't see it factoring into stalling or whatever.

I wonder if these kills appear even when time is off? He makes it sound like they only appear when time is on. Unless he's implying the game is always on time?

I don't think anyone does this. Doing that would be really hard even for competitive players unless they had a character that is strongest killing off the top, and even then they don't care about stalling for time if they're being aggressive and getting kills. It's also a contradiction. If you're stalling, then you can't really be going for killing anyone because then you're not stalling...

What this would have affected is if jigglypuff was in the game with her rest like it was in melee, the strategy to use is if you get hit is to DI to the side to avoid a star KO, so that you come back to the stage quicker to punish the rest with possibly a kill. If rest leads into a star KO then jigglypuff will wake up without taking damage (or at least, not dying). Even without jigglypuff or rest this change is good but i can't see it factoring into stalling or whatever.

I wonder if these kills appear even when time is off? He makes it sound like they only appear when time is on. Unless he's implying the game is always on time?

Well of course no one could outright abuse star kos. They just happen. Nevertheless, it was agitating when a kill escaped you because star koing took up so much time.

It's not a big change, but it's the thought that counts.

Nevertheless, it was agitating when a kill escaped you because star koing took up so much time.

You mean the game ending before the KO registers? That can still happen with this animation. I don't know if you've played or seen the game in alpha build, but this new animation he's talking about is a longer animation than the previous games' bonk animation (i want to say twice or three times as long because the character "slides" down the glass instead of just hitting it and dying) which was pretty much instant before so that is still a possibility. You would probably have to kill them between the 1-2 second mark for that though.

You mean the game ending before the KO registers? That can still happen with this animation. I don't know if you've played or seen the game in alpha build, but this new animation he's talking about is a longer animation than the previous games' bonk animation (i want to say twice or three times as long because the character "slides" down the glass instead of just hitting it and dying) which was pretty much instant before so that is still a possibility. You would probably have to kill them between the 1-2 second mark for that though.

This isn't a thing to debate. kills aren't instant. but they're shorter. that's all i wanted to say

god damn

This isn't a thing to debate. kills aren't instant. but they're shorter. that's all i wanted to say

god damn

SMASH AINT NO JOKE SON.